or Connect
ChefTalk.com › ChefTalk Cooking Forums › Cooking Discussions › Pastries & Baking › Problems with blind baking a quiche crust
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Problems with blind baking a quiche crust - Page 2

post #31 of 87

I never blind bake Quiche shells. Brisee made with T55. Heavy tins, Heavy baking sheet.

post #32 of 87

ed, that's why I stick the processor blade in the freezer, to prevent the heat build up.

I also only pulse a few times, then dump it out, work it into a ball (gently!) then divide and make the disks, cover and stick into the fridge for a few hours.

IDK...works for me.

Like I posted before, my crusts are (almost) always flaky.

 

mimi

post #33 of 87
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kippers View Post

I never blind bake Quiche shells. Brisee made with T55. Heavy tins, Heavy baking sheet.

 

 

@Kippers:  you mean to bake your prefilled shells in a tarte/pie pan that's placed within a baking/sheet pan that's placed into the oven?


Edited by kokopuffs - 12/12/12 at 1:19pm

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply
post #34 of 87
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by flipflopgirl View Post

Yum, koko!

Printed it out and placed with my egg recipes!

 

mimi

 

I'm soooooo flattered to have provided inspiration to someone, a real chef/home cook, at this forum.

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply
post #35 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by kokopuffs View Post

 

I'm soooooo flattered to have provided inspiration to someone, a real chef/home cook, at this forum.

 



As opposed to a fake one...

post #36 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by kokopuffs View Post

 

 

@Kippers:  you mean to bake your prefilled shells in a tarte/pie pan that's placed within a baking/sheet pan that's placed into the oven?

More or less Koko, I place my flat heavy baking sheet in the oven and bring both up to temp, I then place the filled tin on the sheet.I do blind bake when I am making uncooked sweet tarts.

post #37 of 87
Thread Starter 

Okay here's what I did yesterday:

 

CRUST

 

1 1/2 C White Lily AP Flour  (2% protein is what's listed on the label)

4 oz unsalted butter (1 stick)

1 tsp salt

1 tsp sugar

1/4 C rose water (or slightly less)

 

KA Bread flour for dusting my pastry cloth

 

The butter was cut tp pea-size and placed into a bowl with all of the dry ingredients.  Then all of ingredients were covered and placed in the freezer for an hour prior to forming the dough.

 

The dough was rolled out and placed into the tarte pan without issue.  The filled pan was then placed in a sheet pan that was at room temperature (Kippers, next time I'll know better when it comes to preheating the sheet pan).  The dough was brushed with an egg wash and then then placed in a 425F preheated oven and baked for about 10 minutes in the center of the oven and 15 minutes on the top rack.

 

The crust came out better and not nearly as soggy as the last one and I noticed some fat leakage into the sheet pan but not as much as before.  Here's the kicker:  you'll note my use of White Lily AP flour at 2% protein.  Most AP flour clocks in around 4% protein and I think that the type of flour/percent protein determines how much fat to use.  Simply put, it just feels as if I'm using too much fat for the kind of flour in my recipe.

 

Instead of the 3 - 2 - 1 proportion, it should probably be around 3 - 1.5 - 1 using White Lily AP.


Edited by kokopuffs - 12/13/12 at 4:40am

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply
post #38 of 87

Thank you for the feedback KoKo, I have learned a few tips while reading this last night.

Petals
Réalisé avec un soupçon d'amour.

Served Up
(165 photos)
Wine and Cheese
(62 photos)
 
Reply

Petals
Réalisé avec un soupçon d'amour.

Served Up
(165 photos)
Wine and Cheese
(62 photos)
 
Reply
post #39 of 87
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by petalsandcoco View Post

Thank you for the feedback KoKo, I have learned a few tips while reading this last night.

 

NICE to hear from an established member.

 

BTW and I'm not shouting but just emphasizing my notification:  1/4 C ROSE WATER IS WAY TOOO TOOO TOOO MUCH ROSE WATER FOR THIS RECIPE.  Next time I'll try using only a teaspoon.

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply
post #40 of 87

Koko....I think you are right about the flour/fat ratio.

Maybe cut back on the fat next time cuz' I am reading between the lines that you are a huge fan of White Lilly (hey, it is in my Gma's bisquit recipe and I would never ever change it)

Oh, and your quiche recipe has been added to the Christmas morning menu.

 

mimi

post #41 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by kokopuffs View Post

 

NICE to hear from an established member.

 

BTW and I'm not shouting but just emphasizing my notification:  1/4 C ROSE WATER IS WAY TOOO TOOO TOOO MUCH ROSE WATER FOR THIS RECIPE.  Next time I'll try using only a teaspoon.

Oh my yes !  eek.gifI put that much in my bath smoking.gif

Petals
Réalisé avec un soupçon d'amour.

Served Up
(165 photos)
Wine and Cheese
(62 photos)
 
Reply

Petals
Réalisé avec un soupçon d'amour.

Served Up
(165 photos)
Wine and Cheese
(62 photos)
 
Reply
post #42 of 87

I probably am misreading KoKo's recipe but need clarification.

 

Are you cutting the butter into pea sized pieces (that's what I read) and adding to the flour or are you cutting the butter into the flour until you get pea sized pieces of butter coated with flour as well as some sand sized flour?

 

As I read it, the former appears to be the case. This might lead to the fat leaking as the flour and butter have not been combined.

 

Then again, perhaps my reading skills need improvement crazy.gif
 

Chef,
Specialties: MasterCook/RecipeFox; Culinary logistics; Personal Chef; Small restaurant owner; Caterer
Reply
Chef,
Specialties: MasterCook/RecipeFox; Culinary logistics; Personal Chef; Small restaurant owner; Caterer
Reply
post #43 of 87
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by flipflopgirl View Post

Koko....I think you are right about the flour/fat ratio.

Maybe cut back on the fat next time cuz' I am reading between the lines that you are a huge fan of White Lilly (hey, it is in my Gma's bisquit recipe and I would never ever change it)

Oh, and your quiche recipe has been added to the Christmas morning menu.

 

mimi

 

Hog Jowl Fat is a fat that's highly prized.  Try using some of it you your crusts.  As to WL Flour, it's local and cheap and I thought that I'd give it a try after having used KA for almost a decade.  And so what that WL is a  bleached flour; but, also it makes for a very light and tender loaf of bread.  Btw I read your profile and I'm a former chrio.  8)


Edited by kokopuffs - 12/13/12 at 11:52am

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply
post #44 of 87
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteMcCracken View Post

I probably am misreading KoKo's recipe but need clarification.

 

Are you cutting the butter into pea sized pieces (that's what I read) and adding to the flour or are you cutting the butter into the flour until you get pea sized pieces of butter coated with flour as well as some sand sized flour?

 

As I read it, the former appears to be the case. This might lead to the fat leaking as the flour and butter have not been combined.

 

Then again, perhaps my reading skills need improvement crazy.gif
 

 

@Pete:

 

Butter cut to pea size.  Butter added to flour without working the 'peas' into the flour.  Mixture frozen for an hour.  After which, the fat is worked into the flour and and patted into a disk and then placed into plastic wrap for at least half an hour to rest if the fridge.  It's then rolled out and docked.

 

What do you mean by "...cutting the butter into the flour until you get pea sized pieces of butter coated with flour..."???????????????????????????????  Ahhh, here might be the crux.  EDIT:  do you mean cut the butter into the flour (rubbing) followed by refrigeration followed by final mixing with water followed by rolling out??


Edited by kokopuffs - 12/13/12 at 12:05pm

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply
post #45 of 87

Yup!

 

There is, to me, an excellent description of the process starting on page 139 of "Mastering the Art of French Cooking", Julia Childs, Louisette Bertholle, and Simone Beck, that includes details of fraisage, the final blending of the flour and fat.
 

Chef,
Specialties: MasterCook/RecipeFox; Culinary logistics; Personal Chef; Small restaurant owner; Caterer
Reply
Chef,
Specialties: MasterCook/RecipeFox; Culinary logistics; Personal Chef; Small restaurant owner; Caterer
Reply
post #46 of 87
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteMcCracken View Post

Yup!

 

There is, to me, an excellent description of the process starting on page 139 of "Mastering the Art of French Cooking", Julia Childs, Louisette Bertholle, and Simone Beck, that includes details of fraisage, the final blending of the flour and fat.
 

 

I used this link to checkout fraisage.  Chilled, the fat is worked into the flour, mixed with the other ingredients, followed by smearing, and then shaped into a disc,  wrapped and refrigerated prior to rolling out and docking.  EDIT: it appears that the fraisage is the final smearing of the flour using the heel of the hand.


Edited by kokopuffs - 12/13/12 at 6:05pm

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply
post #47 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by kokopuffs View Post

 

I used this link to checkout fraisage.  Chilled, the fat is worked into the flour, mixed with the other ingredients, followed by smearing, and then shaped into a disc,  wrapped and refrigerated prior to rolling out and docking.  EDIT: it appears that the fraisage is the final smearing of the flour using the heel of the hand.

Believe it, that is an EXACT quotation from the above cited reference, word for word, and no credit given!

Chef,
Specialties: MasterCook/RecipeFox; Culinary logistics; Personal Chef; Small restaurant owner; Caterer
Reply
Chef,
Specialties: MasterCook/RecipeFox; Culinary logistics; Personal Chef; Small restaurant owner; Caterer
Reply
post #48 of 87

such a little technique that has such a huge impact on the outcome...

 

Well i'm hoping that sorts out that!

----

 


"Plus, this method makes you look like a complete lunatic. If you care about that sort of thing".  - Dave Arnold

 

Reply

----

 


"Plus, this method makes you look like a complete lunatic. If you care about that sort of thing".  - Dave Arnold

 

Reply
post #49 of 87
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteMcCracken View Post

Believe it, that is an EXACT quotation from the above cited reference, word for word, and no credit given!

 

THANKS to Julia Child!   Now, a word from our sponsor...  (switch to blue commercial)

 

FWIW her crust recipe appears to be 2 - 2 - 1:

 

8 oz flour (2 C)

8 oz fat approx.

4 oz water

 

So the AP flour that she's using obviously isn't White Lily but something having a higher protein content around 4% instead of 2%.  And yes, she's adding more flour during dusting and wrapping.


Edited by kokopuffs - 12/14/12 at 2:11am

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply
post #50 of 87

I think I am the one that confused you, koko.

I cut the fats up into small pieces and place into the freezer with the other ingredients (to clarify my procedure, most peeps don't do this, but when your Gma tells you to do something, you don't ask questions, lolol).

When everything is nice and cold-cold-cold you work the fats into the flour and proceed from there... whether you rub it in, cut it in with 2 knives, use a pastry cutter or a food processor you are attempting to enrobe tiny, tiny, tiny bits of fat with flour, this is what gives you the flaky texture you are seeking.

When the mixture has the appearance of peas (or cornmeal), add the ice water a bit at a time.

You are looking for a nice cohesive ball, if it is sticky (too much water added, the amt of liquid depends on so many variables) it can be saved by rolling out with some extra bench flour.

Scatter flour, place the dough on it and pat it down, dust the top with a bit of flour, turn the dough over and start the rolling, dusting with more flour prn, ;-) roll...keep the dough moving by flipping and rolling and giving it a half turn, flip......stop adding the flour when things no longer try to stick.

I just cut my fats to pea size (before freezing) to get a head start and avoid over working  the dough and melting the fat with the heat produced by the machine.

Just the way I was taught.

Oh my goodness....poor koko!

This is a perfect example of too many cooks in the kitchen, lolol!

 

mimi

 

* Not to add more confusion, but a pie placed on a pizza stone placed low in the oven, and pre-heated will also give the un-blind baked crust a nice brown color.

I seldom ever remove my stone from the oven floor.

 

m.

post #51 of 87
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by flipflopgirl View Post

...* Not to add more confusion, but a pie placed on a pizza stone placed low in the oven, and pre-heated will also give the un-blind baked crust a nice brown color.

I seldom ever remove my stone from the oven floor.

 

m.

 

@M:    Sounds as if you don't use fraisage.  And up to now your method is identical to the one I've been using.

 

I use a baking stone when bread baking but am a bit hesitant to use it for a dough that's high in fat.  Won't the stone absorb some of that fat, resulting in a rancid odor if not baked at temperatures high enough to evaporate that absorbed fat afterwards?


Edited by kokopuffs - 12/14/12 at 7:22pm

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply
post #52 of 87

One of the crispest and most resilient pastries I use is called "hot water crust" over here, you boil the water and fat together then dump into the flour.

The paste is then chilled overnight, the paste then holds its shape even when using a "dolly" to hand raise  a 4+" pie

post #53 of 87
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kippers View Post

One of the crispest and most resilient pastries I use is called "hot water crust" over here, you boil the water and fat together then dump into the flour.

The paste is then chilled overnight, the paste then holds its shape even when using a "dolly" to hand raise  a 4+" pie

 

Please explain "dolly".  Is the paste mixed and then allowed to set overnight prior to rolling out and docking or what?  "Hand raise"???

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply
post #54 of 87

Boiling water and fat, then adding flour sounds a lot like making a pâte à choux dough without adding eggs. I also use this process to make Pommes deTerre Dauphine, except I use chicken consomme instead of water. Hm...I've never thought to chill it and then roll it out to use as a pie crust. Interesting.

post #55 of 87

Koko if you watch this vid your questions will be answered 

post #56 of 87

It may vary with different stone materials and weights, but the fat/oil absorbed into my stone has developed a nice patina after years (20?) of use.

I can bake biscuits and then a spicy tomato sauce pizza and turn around and make some chocolate chip cookies the next day.

No carry over flavors.

Never really questioned how or why but now you have me wondering.

Off to search and question and learn.

Will report back.

 

mimi

post #57 of 87
I use hot water crust to make raised pies and Scotch pies (aka mutton pies, although seldom made with mutton nowadays).
post #58 of 87

A lot of what is out there is written by stone users that only use it for pizza, so here is a bit from my own experience.

 

I have an unglazed oven baking stone (round and VERY heavy) that I was told to never wash with soap. I treat it almost exactly the same as my good, well seasoned cast iron skillets and dutch oven.

I pour out /wipe off any remaining oil and fond, wipe with paper towels and if there is anything stuck...pour in/on a generous amt of kosher salt and let it sit for a bit and scrub again with paper towels.

I do sometimes rely on a small (plastic) scraper if something isn't dislodged by the salt scrub.

I have had my stone for many years and it is very discolored.

My Gma Van (my very first mentor and kitchen angel of the guardian persuasion) taught me the more you use it the darker it will become (she was talkin' about cast iron of course, baking stones were not a kitchen fixture in her time).

Even though it doesn't look that great, it is actually OK because it is seasoned and that is actually what you want your stone to eventually look like.

Like I mentioned before, I rarely move mine from its home on the deck of my gas oven.

 

mimi

post #59 of 87

The problem is your supposed to make the bottom crust thicker so it doesn't drip through like that, my cooking lecturer at college taught me that one and it works every time, don't make it thin as you would with the top of a pie, i would also review how much fat you put into making the crust but yes use the rubbing method as people have said to make sure all of it is rubbed into the flour. Also when you oil the bottom if you use cooking oil never do that because all it does is dries up the bottom and makes the foil stick to it, grease it with a nice amount of butter but not too much but enough to know it won't stick to it, don't listen to people that say use oil to grease it, you only do that for certain types of things like when you make pizza but NEVER with many things, anything like cakes, muffins, cheese cakes, cookies, pies and pastries you should never use oil.

I agree with the others too freeze everything before hand, just put everything in and try to cut everything as small as possible, i keep over working pastry because my hands are very warm so when rubbing i would cut all the lard and butter very small otherwise it will take longer to rub in and it will just over work, the color needs to be a pale brown color not a very dark brown color, i'm going to start cutting the fats really small myself really the next time i make pie dough.


Edited by emmbai90 - 12/21/12 at 1:17pm
post #60 of 87

I use the "hot water"method crust for pate en croute, except I use milk instead of water.  It's a very flexible dough and holds it's shape well.

...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
Reply
...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Pastries & Baking
ChefTalk.com › ChefTalk Cooking Forums › Cooking Discussions › Pastries & Baking › Problems with blind baking a quiche crust