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Christmas Present Time! - Page 2

post #31 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by boar_d_laze View Post

 

I don't have a business relationship with Mark, and never had. 

 

 


 

Quote:

Originally Posted by boar_d_laze View Post

Disclosure: I have a commercial relationship with CKtG, writing for their newsletter and doing some equipment testing/reviewing.

 

 

 

 

   I'm glad we cleared that up because I can certainly pull several other quotes from your posts where you very specifically said you have a working relationship and/or business relationship with Ck2g. Your words compadre.

Either way I think it's a major streeeeeeetch and just a little knuckin futty to suggest an entire forum is biased against a single vendor. That certainly hasn't been my experience on KKF but again if it were true that's pretty revealing because it's by far the biggest kitchen knife forum going by traffic. That's a lot of angry people!

 Antipathy from lack of experience is bound to exist but that blade cuts both ways. I recall seeing a stunning proclamation in the last week or so about how great Richmonds are only to be followed up with a disclaimer about never having used one. Go figure.

Either way I agree, There's a lot of good choices from all dealers and some truly great ones from most dealers. IMO that means there's no need to focus on the float-some and jet-some that belongs in the project bin. You will just have to forgive me for being amused by your consistent postings about "odd advice" from Korin while you promote another that still suggests Moritaka with all it's problems. To me that seems VERY odd advice to some one asking about what knife to buy. I'm sure we both know not many are fixing overground edges themselves, if it can be done at all. ;)

Hey I'm just a simple cook and I subscribe to a simple theory...If it walks like a Duck, Flies like a Duck, Then it's probably a.....

I think the most wonderful thing in the world is another chef. I'm always excited about learning new things about food.
Paul Prudhomme
Reply
I think the most wonderful thing in the world is another chef. I'm always excited about learning new things about food.
Paul Prudhomme
Reply
post #32 of 40
Nice, a quote from February...
Anyway, Korin does have the HC range
post #33 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wubu View Post

Nice, a quote from February...

 

I'm thinkin Feb falls well within the range of "never"....

Either way it would be prudent to price freight from each vendor but given the saya offer I'd expect Koki to be the best deal if the used MAC wasn't an option.

 

Dave

I think the most wonderful thing in the world is another chef. I'm always excited about learning new things about food.
Paul Prudhomme
Reply
I think the most wonderful thing in the world is another chef. I'm always excited about learning new things about food.
Paul Prudhomme
Reply
post #34 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdm magic View Post

Don't Korin only stock the VG and VC range? 

 

It still comes to around the same as from JCK, and when I emailed him about the price difference he offered me a free magnolia wood saya with the HC. 

 

And you're right, getting the MAC would allow me to get a petty if I want too, for the same price as just for a gyuto. But, if the Masamoto would be a higher quality gyuto that I'm less likely to want to replace in 12 months, i'd rather just get that. 

 

What do you guys think, which is the 'better' knife?


 Korin sells both the VG (stainless) and HC Masamotos.  Korin calls the HCs "Virgin Carbon."  I don't know why but am sure it makes sense to them. 

 

I like the Sabatier like profile and relative thinness of the Masamotos compared to the MAC -- which doesn't feel quite as agile to me.  I also prefer carbon to the alloy used in both the MAC and Masamoto VG -- but that's me.  I think that the MAC pro handle is somewhat better than the Masamoto handle, and the MAC is certainly stiffer.  MAC has a really good factory warranty, as well as incredibly good factory support here in the US -- which is important if you're buying from a dealer in another country or from one who isn't known for great or quick response. 

 

I'm not sure what MAC support is like in the UK or Europe.  I know a guy from here who lives in Denmark, bought a MAC, had some problems with handle fit and chipping and ended up dealing with MAC USA -- but I'm not sure if that was because there's no support in Europe or he just couldn't find it. 

 

The MAC Pro is an excellent "first good knife," but -- if you can live with carbon -- the Masamoto HC is better. 

 

BDL

post #35 of 40
Not only Korin calls the HC "Virgin Carbon", JCK and CKTG do the same. Just in the case of CKTG the mention has been lost in the CT page but is still there.

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/mactca.html
post #36 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benuser View Post

Not only Korin calls the HC "Virgin Carbon", JCK and CKTG do the same. Just in the case of CKTG the mention has been lost in the CT page but is still there.
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/mactca.html

 

The CT and HC are both "virgin," steels in the sense that the iron contribution is entirely from mines and not from recycling.  The difference between the alloys is that HC's is purer than CT's. 

 

JCK calls HC "Highest Virgin Steel," which can be a little confusing, but refers to the series as "HC" which is the same way Masamoto has it in its catalog. 

 

CKtG's CT entry is somewhat confusing because it erroneously refers to HC instead of CT -- and we know that's wrong because only the CTs have red sandalwood handles, the HC handles used to be ebony but are now black pakka.  But the entry correctly calls the alloy "virgin" (i.e., no recycled iron or steel) as opposed to "Virgin" (as in a trade name), which ought to help clarify but only complicates.    

 

In my opinion, referring to the lines as HC and CT in English is less confusing without inserting "Virgin" into the names or "virgin" into the description without defining the term.  But it's such a small thing, and "a rose by any name would smell as sweet."  As long as we agree on which one we're talking about at any given time, who cares?

 

Paranthetically and By Way of Uncertain Speculation: 

I think, but am not sure, that CT is Takefu VS and HC is Takefu VS2.  FWIW, VS2 is very high end, as good as Hitachi's "White #2."  Whether they're Takefu steels or not, they're both good stuff and whatverthehell Masamoto uses for CT is a good alloy and whateverthell they use for HC is a very good alloy indeed.  The primary distinctions are that the HC stuff is less reactive and has better edge taking properties.  FWIW, the CT line is more complete with a huge selection of western profiles (JCK doesn't show them all, but I think they'll get you whatever you want; I'm not sure what Mark can or will do for you if you want something other than a 240 or 270mm gyuto; while Korin doesn't carry the CT line at all).  CTs are good knives and too often overlooked, while the HCs are as good as mass produced knives get.  

 

Hope this clarifies,

BDL


Edited by boar_d_laze - 12/17/12 at 11:42pm
post #37 of 40
Would you think the given hardness (62-63Rc) applies to the HC or the CT series?
post #38 of 40
Thread Starter 

While we're talking about the differences between lines of knives, could someone enlighten me to the difference between MAC Pros and MAC Ultimates?

post #39 of 40

Again, the difference is primarily the alloy; but in the case of the Ultimates vs the Pros, it's more the identity of the alloy than its quality.  The Ultimate's has more tungsten, is slightly stronger, and is hardened just a skosh more.  The Ultimate has better cosmetics as well -- or at least MAC has gone to some trouble with them.  The Pro is either VG2 or something a helluva lot like it.  To give it some context, it's got a very good balance of strength and toughness (excellent really), is better than AUS8, doesn't seem to be one of the prevalent 440Cs, but it's not VG10, 19C27, or any of the other super-hyped alloys.  And whatever it is, it's also a hulluva lot like whateverthehell Masamoto uses in its VG series -- which is a "proprietary" VG that might as well be VG2 in the same way that Henckels "proprietary" steel might as well be X50CrMoV15.

 

I used to think the Ultimate was VG7, but have changed my opinion to "I don't know."  [Don't you just love alloy guessing?]

 

MAC doesn't release Rockwell "C" hardness numbers but the Pro acts as though it were just below 60, while the Ultimate acts as if it were just above.  In other words, very similar.  Like other MACs they're characteristically pretty tough and both knives will tend to roll the edges rather than chip them in situations which might be problematic for some other knives (or at least so I'm told), and both knives can be profitably steeled.

 

I've never owned a Ultimate or used one for any length of time.  The one I knew best belonged to an executive chef who was a friend of a friend which I fooled with for a few minutes, and sharpened as a favor to my friend who normally did it for his friend but was out of town.  Complicated enough for you?  Not to get back to the point or anything, but based on that very brief acquaintance I don't think the Ultimate is worth the extra money compared to the Pro; except maybe as a gift to someone who loves MACs and "nothing but the best" will do.

 

While we're on the subject of MAC alloys, the Superior's is the same as the Pro's, but the Superior doesn't have anywhere near the same feel and -- in an opinion backed by significantly more experience -- you're better off with the Pro chef's knife if you can afford it.  The Superior bread (SB 105) on the other hand is as good as it gets, and the little 5" parer is an excellent deal if you want a 5" knife.

 

BDL

post #40 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingofkings View Post

While we're talking about the differences between lines of knives, could someone enlighten me to the difference between MAC Pros and MAC Ultimates?

 

The Pro is a nice working knife but if you are buying new it's over priced compared to what's available today in the $150-$200 range. The Superior feels like a stamped knife and while I'm not a big fan of the Pro either it is a nice step up from the superior. Neither one is made from an alloy worth talking much about, not that it will matter of it fits your price point and you like it.

 

Dave

I think the most wonderful thing in the world is another chef. I'm always excited about learning new things about food.
Paul Prudhomme
Reply
I think the most wonderful thing in the world is another chef. I'm always excited about learning new things about food.
Paul Prudhomme
Reply
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