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Dish that has nothing to do with anything Jewish or Greek...

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 

Guys I've had this concept of a plate on my mind for some time now and I'm going to put it into practice very soon.  I want to replicate a Jewish bagel with lox dish, kind of deconstructed.

 

Here's what I'm thinking:

 

Seared salmon fillet topped with a dill and pistachios pesto and a cream cheese sauce and a side bagel panzanella salad. 

 

Maybe the pesto and the cream cheese sauce is overboard?  Should I just do one or the other?

 

Also, would a dill and pistachio pesto be possible?  Do I make it essentially the same way as a normal pesto just sub the basil with dill and pine nuts with pistachios? 

post #2 of 22

Sounds interesting but I can't wrap my mind around the cooked salmon.  It's so different than raw cured salmon.  It has a different taste, texture, temperature, thickness, it may as well be a completely different animal.  I do like the idea of the dill pistacchio pesto, but I don't think the cream cheese works with cooked salmon.  The bagel panzanella salad sounds awesome, make sure it's toasted bagel!  To sum up, there are some good ideas here worth trying, but maybe not all together?

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post #3 of 22

Also don't get stuck on what the pesto "must" be.  Pesto refers to anything that is made in the mortar/pestle, so let your imagination and your taste buds guide you.  Personally I'd put parsley, dill, pistacchios, olive oil and garlic.  Hold the parmesan.  Or.... aha!!  That's where you can put a little bit of cream cheese, in the pesto! 

"You are what you eat, so don't be fast, cheap, easy, or fake."

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post #4 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koukouvagia View Post

Also don't get stuck on what the pesto "must" be.  Pesto refers to anything that is made in the mortar/pestle, so let your imagination and your taste buds guide you.  Personally I'd put parsley, dill, pistacchios, olive oil and garlic.  Hold the parmesan.  Or.... aha!!  That's where you can put a little bit of cream cheese, in the pesto! 


I like that A LOT!  That's a great suggestion, and pretty much what I had in mind, minus the cream cheese....

 

I know the salmon is totally different, but I would strive to sear it, and keep it as medium rare as possible.... I love raw salmon, but I'm thinking of this dish in a cooked fashion and would like to serve it as a dinner sized portion, thus leaving me with the option of having to cook a  whole fillet...

post #5 of 22

Be careful of the dill-a little with salmon is a nice accent, but making a pesto with a lot of it could overwhelm the subtle flavor of the fish.

Adding the cream cheese to the pesto would help considerably.

 

Like the idea, but while eating cream cheese is a delectable flavor and texture experience, thinning it into a sauce seems icky. 

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post #6 of 22

If you make a traditional pesto(Pine nuts, good Parma cheese, fresh garlic, decent olive oil.  It will dominate over dill or pistachio even the salmon. Even if you blended cream cheese into pesto its would be overly strong for the delicate salmon.. Where did youget Jewish/Greek out of this combo??  Try a nice subtle dill cream sauce then topped with a sprinkle of ground pistachio and chopped ripe olives. 

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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post #7 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by foodnfoto View Post

Be careful of the dill-a little with salmon is a nice accent, but making a pesto with a lot of it could overwhelm the subtle flavor of the fish.

Adding the cream cheese to the pesto would help considerably.

 

Like the idea, but while eating cream cheese is a delectable flavor and texture experience, thinning it into a sauce seems icky. 

I was worried about using too much dill, I might cut it with some parsley.  

Quote:
Originally Posted by chefedb View Post

If you make a traditional pesto(Pine nuts, good Parma cheese, fresh garlic, decent olive oil.  It will dominate over dill or pistachio even the salmon. Even if you blended cream cheese into pesto its would be overly strong for the delicate salmon.. Where did youget Jewish/Greek out of this combo??  Try a nice subtle dill cream sauce then topped with a sprinkle of ground pistachio and chopped ripe olives. 

I disagree, if done right I think it will compliment the salmon very nicely.  

 

As for the Jewish / Greek thing I'm basing this dish off the common jewish bagels and lox.  I'm pretty sure that part is explained in the OP.  As for greek, I always assosite dill and Greek food together for whatever reason.  Maybe I'm wrong on that, but that's jsut me.  Also, I've considered the idea of using olives and or capers somewhere in the dish too..  I dunno, to me, it screams Jewish / Greek...

post #8 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chefedb View Post

If you make a traditional pesto(Pine nuts, good Parma cheese, fresh garlic, decent olive oil.  It will dominate over dill or pistachio even the salmon. Even if you blended cream cheese into pesto its would be overly strong for the delicate salmon.. Where did youget Jewish/Greek out of this combo??  Try a nice subtle dill cream sauce then topped with a sprinkle of ground pistachio and chopped ripe olives. 

Although I do like the idea of sprinkling the ground pistachios and olives over the top...

post #9 of 22

I'm baffled by your Jewish-Greek attributions; bagels, I get, but Lox is just one of hundreds of salmon preparations. And after two lengthy vacations in Greece, and since a big fan of Greek cuisine (though not the tourist-oriented steam-table variety) I don't at all associate dill as some kind of  hallmark of Greek. 

 

Just curious, is all. wink.gif

 

Mike

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post #10 of 22

Dill = Greek? 

 

Not an association I would make. Dill is more associated with northern European and Middle-Eastern dishes in my mind. Dilled rice (Persian) and yogurty or sour creamy cucumber dips and salads. Pickles. A garnish for gravlax.

 

When I think of Greek herbs, I think first of Greek oregano and thyme. The dried thyme and oregano I buy still on the branches both come from Greece. And a friend brought me back some nice thyme honey from a trip to Greece a few years back.

post #11 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoTerry View Post

Dill = Greek? 

 

Not an association I would make. Dill is more associated with northern European and Middle-Eastern dishes in my mind. Dilled rice (Persian) and yogurty or sour creamy cucumber dips and salads. Pickles. A garnish for gravlax.

 

When I think of Greek herbs, I think first of Greek oregano and thyme. The dried thyme and oregano I buy still on the branches both come from Greece. And a friend brought me back some nice thyme honey from a trip to Greece a few years back.

Maybe so, but I also associate "yogurty" and cucumber with Greek dishes too... Personally, I think dill accompanies Greek dishes extremely well... Tzaztziki, feta, olives...

 

Obviously thyme and oregano too...

 

I'm not singling out dill as the main Greek ingredient, and although it may not originate in Greece, I feel it works very well with a lot of Greek dishes IMO.  

 

Just as if Cilantro or Coriander are originally European ingredients, they're used widely in Vietnamese and Latin cooking, among others... 

post #12 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeLM View Post

I'm baffled by your Jewish-Greek attributions; bagels, I get, but Lox is just one of hundreds of salmon preparations. And after two lengthy vacations in Greece, and since a big fan of Greek cuisine (though not the tourist-oriented steam-table variety) I don't at all associate dill as some kind of  hallmark of Greek. 

 

Just curious, is all. wink.gif

 

Mike

I didn't say it was the "Hallmark Greek Ingredient".  YOU CANT HAVE GREEK WITHOUT DILL!  Nope.  Sorry.  

 

What I said (or meant) is that it goes well with Greek, to me.  That's it.  

post #13 of 22

Dill goes in many Iranian and or Persian dishes. not so mush Greek. Greek Oregano is used quite a bit in Greek dishes.

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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post #14 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chefedb View Post

Dill goes in many Iranian and or Persian dishes. not so mush Greek. Greek Oregano is used quite a bit in Greek dishes.

Glad to know Dill is outlawed in Greek cooking.

 

Guys, seriously, if this perturbs you that bad, I'll change the name of the post.  Sheesh

post #15 of 22

As a Greek I can safely and accurately tell you that dill is used in many many many greek dishes.  I would not attribute any one herb as specifically greek although oregano is used the most, and not seem to be used by other cuisines as much.  I would also not say that adding dill to a dish reminds me of greekness in particular because I have seen it in german food, scandinavian food, and lebanese food used with equal gusto. 

 

No need to have changed your title just because some people get crabby around here.  But can I say one thing?  Greeks don't really eat salmon, they prefer white fish as opposed to oily fish, and any fish they can eat top to tail  - they particularly have no interest in filets as we do. 

 

And while we're at it, I don't think that the use of any one spice or herb can magically transform a dish into an ethnically steered dish.  You can't sprinkle dill onto a salad and call it greek.  I get particularly flustered when someone inserts feta into a dish and calls it greek lol. 

"You are what you eat, so don't be fast, cheap, easy, or fake."

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"You are what you eat, so don't be fast, cheap, easy, or fake."

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post #16 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koukouvagia View Post

As a Greek I can safely and accurately tell you that dill is used in many many many greek dishes.  I would not attribute any one herb as specifically greek although oregano is used the most, and not seem to be used by other cuisines as much.  I would also not say that adding dill to a dish reminds me of greekness in particular because I have seen it in german food, scandinavian food, and lebanese food used with equal gusto. 

 

No need to have changed your title just because some people get crabby around here.  But can I say one thing?  Greeks don't really eat salmon, they prefer white fish as opposed to oily fish, and any fish they can eat top to tail  - they particularly have no interest in filets as we do. 

 

And while we're at it, I don't think that the use of any one spice or herb can magically transform a dish into an ethnically steered dish.  You can't sprinkle dill onto a salad and call it greek.  I get particularly flustered when someone inserts feta into a dish and calls it greek lol. 


Yea I understand the salmon comment, but once again, I wanted to do a play on the bagel and salmon...

 

I agree with the feta.  Also, I'm a little unsure how feta became a standard in Mexican food too, ie, fuzzys tacos.  WTF?  It's like, "what else can we throw on this crawfish taco?  how about feta?"  It's all so very confused.

post #17 of 22

Since mostly white fleshed fish is found along Greek shores this is predominant type fish, Not salmon which is strictly cold water.and found in different areas

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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post #18 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by chefedb View Post

Since mostly white fleshed fish is found along Greek shores this is predominant type fish, Not salmon which is strictly cold water.and found in different areas

 

You'd be surprised what beautiful tuna can be found in the mediterranean. Yet it is rarely eaten in Greece.

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post #19 of 22

I wouldm't be surprised because I spent time in Teneriffe  years ago. They have Tuna but know one likes it

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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post #20 of 22
Thread Starter 
I made the dish. Salmon was cooked perfectly mid rare and crispy skin. Bagel panzanella (rye and pumpernickel) with tomatoes, red onion, basil, olive oil, balsamic, feta, s&p. dill and pistachio pesto. A great success.
post #21 of 22

Looking good!

 

Glad you perservered.

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post #22 of 22

Excellent!

"You are what you eat, so don't be fast, cheap, easy, or fake."

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"You are what you eat, so don't be fast, cheap, easy, or fake."

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