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Official Steak Cooking Thread - Page 5

post #121 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweakz View Post
 

Sous vide is basically fast food:

Sous vide is hardly fast food. It's a cooking technique that was invented by a 3 star michelin restaurant called Trois Gros in France in the 70's. It was quickly adopted by other famous French chefs such as Paul Bocuse and Joel Robuchon. 

post #122 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryB View Post

An interesting method I have used a few times is deep frying steak, gets a wonderful crust. I use a 325 degree oil temp when I do it.
post #123 of 138

In this test of the many tests I have done:

 

One slab of corned beef, cut equally into two identical pieces. One piece went into sous vide cooker, the other braised the traditional way.

 

Braised - 29.84 oz start, came out to be 14.42 oz, a 51.68% shrinkage.

 

Sous vided - 29.98 oz start, came out to be 19.73 oz. a 34.19% shrinkage.

 

There is a 17.49% difference in shrinkage between the two methods.

 

The braised corned beef was falling apart, but not tender, you still have to slice across the grain.

 

The sous vided one was enjoyed pulled pork fashion, because it was truly tender.

 

The lesser meat shrinkage is a great advantage of sous vide cooking, considering how expensive meat can be nowadays. If we can just save 5% beef, that will be 2,000,000 fewer cows need to be slaughtered, which will offset any so-call plastic damage to the environment. 

 

Waste of kitchen space?

 

Let me see. I sous vided eggs to pasteurize raw eggs for making ice cream, and carbonara, I sous vided heavy cream to make clotted cream. I sous vided milk to make yogurt, -----------.

 

And I am very puzzled why people think sous vided chicken means boiled chicken.

 

dcarch

 

Sous vided crispy chicken on wild rice risotto

 

post #124 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcarch View Post
 

And I am very puzzled why people think sous vided chicken means boiled chicken.

I have to confess that before actually eating sous-vide cooked items in nice restaurants, when I first heard of the technique, it didn't sound appealing to me. The idea of stuffing my steak in a plastic bag and using all sorts of equipment to check and maintain a precise temperature does go against my caveman instincts. 

post #125 of 138

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Edited by tweakz - 10/27/14 at 10:40am
post #126 of 138
SV is definitely not a "new" technique.

As I said in an earlier post, it has its place, and can been fun to tool around with. I'm just not with stuffing a prime rib in a bag and a bath.

I can roast a prime rib that looks as good if not better than that picture that was earlier posted. And no blood or juice? Uhm, I want "blood or juice" with my rib.
post #127 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweakz View Post
 

 sous vide is definitely a fast food technique - prove me wrong

I did. ;)

post #128 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chef Torrie View Post

SV is definitely not a "new" technique.

As I said in an earlier post, it has its place, and can been fun to tool around with. I'm just not with stuffing a prime rib in a bag and a bath.

I can roast a prime rib that looks as good if not better than that picture that was earlier posted. And no blood or juice? Uhm, I want "blood or juice" with my rib.

The whole discussion really can be reduced to a few science facts:

 

1. Meat is not smart. It only understands temperature, whether the heat is from hot water or from hot fire, it can't tell the difference.

 

2. You can't heat water higher than 212F (normal pressure)

 

3. You cannot change conductivity of meat.

 

4. Meat gets cooked from raw to rare to medium to well to over cooked, depending on temperature.

 

5. Taste is subjective, some like the meat raw, and some like it well done. But very few like their meat cooked at 212F, and meat shrinks like crazy at 212F, that's why I am shocked at the comment above "Shrinkage doesn't mean loss of beef: it's loss of water" implying that shrinkage is no big deal.

 

6. To overcome the limitations of scientific laws, various techniques have been used to achieve the desired end results, especially the conductivity of meat, because the variables involved, such as start out interior temperature and thickness of meat. "Low & Slow" for instance gives time for heat to even out inside the meat. Still it is almost impossible to achieve complete even temperature control to the desired degree of done-ness. "Resting" is another technique to allow better temperature control, even that means the outside of the meat is going to get cold. Resting is recommended also to allow the re-absorption of "Blood & Juice". It is not a good sign to see a lot of blood and juice coming out of the meat.

 

 Sous vide, by the very nature of physics, overcomes many of the above issues.

 

It make no difference of start out temperature of the meat or the thickness of the meat. As a matter of fact, I routinely sous vide a big thick 7-bone prime rib directly from frozen, no thawing needed. Once the cooking temperature is set, it is simply impossible to overcook or under cook. Timing is not critical either. When you cook a steak the normal way, one minute can mean a rejection from a customer. With sous vide, an hour here, an hour there, makes no difference. Resting is not needed either for juice re-absorption or for carryover heat.

 

Sous vide Fast food? I have no idea what that means. Automobile was invented because people were too lazy to walk. Sous vide was invent so dummies (like me) can make perfect steaks.

 

The several new circulator makers sold at least 20,000 units in a very short time even the units are not immediately available. It appears that there are people who feel their kitchens have room for this appliance.

 

dcarch

post #129 of 138
I must have missed the memo. That happens a lot, unfortunately, at my place.

When did sous vide ever become "fast"?!?

TIA for the help here.
post #130 of 138
Why you quoted me and gave me a science lesson I have no idea; because I already know the science of it.

I simply stated it wasn't a new technique, and I'd rather roast my rib.

What it comes down to I you prefer all your meat sous vide and I do not.
post #131 of 138

Tweakz, have you ever actually USED sous vide, or are you just going on what you think you know from reading about it? 

 

I'm sure Taco Bell uses boil-in-bag stuff. So what. They also use a deep fryer--does that mean anyone who isn't doing fast food can't use a deep fryer? Is a deep fryer only for lazy, inept cooks? 

 

Waste of space really got me--kitchens I've worked in professionally have used sous vide and chamber vacuum sealers. They are a space SAVER. Everything lined up in neat little bags, ready to cook, or already cooked, or marinating, or just being stored. Water baths being used instead of giant rondeus or hotel pans, less use of saute pans, etc. 

 

Most proteins that are cooked sous vide are cooked again in a pan to sear the outside and develop the maillard crust and reaction we all know and love. A sous vide steak can be grilled, or broiled, or pan roasted. 

 

Vegetables done sous vide are a marvel. They retain color, don't go mushy, and taste more "of themselves" than most other cooking methods. How much flavor and aroma is lost to the poaching water when cooking veg? Tons. The loss is minimized when sous vide is used. In fact, most attention is given to proteins cooked sous vide, but vegetables are a revelation. 

 

72 hour short ribs are not "fast food." Sous vide a brisket, a pork shoulder, a pork belly, or any of a hundred other things and tell me it is "fast." Ever had a tender, Medium rare short rib? How would you achieve that without sous vide? 

 

And yes, sous vide is a NEW technique, as I would say any technique that has only been around since the 70's (and only been popularized the last 10 years or so) new. Especially compared to wood fire, oven roasting, grilling, poaching, i.e. all out "traditional" cooking techniques. 

 

There was a time when gas ovens and stovetops were new too. 

post #132 of 138
I love how much of the resistance sous vide applications come from people that "haven't tried it but don't like the sound of it." Well, I can't argue with that logic!

Tweakz, not to inject too much snark here, but I yeah, I would weight the public endorsement of the technique by numerous chefs who actually put their names and reputation out there to do so. As opposed a dismissal by somebody who refers to themselves by a name that usually implies that you need a hit of heroin. Just sayn'.

And, not to burst too many bubbles here, but grilling steaks "ain't all that." Especially in restaurant enviroment that is set up for it its not that difficult with even a small amount of experience. And believe me, I am not running down grill cooks, far from it. But lets be honest, what makes a great grill cook is not hitting the right temp, its organizing the thirty steaks they have grilling, resting and plating. The actual cooking of an individual steak is not a big deal, that is a very basic professional skill. If you think that as a chef or cook it is some sort of art or sign of great skill, then you probably don't need your hood, because smoke is getting vented up someplace else.

The main take away from this thread ought to be that there are numerous was to get at a good steak. Much of that is to personal taste. I would hope that people would feel free to grab what sounds appealing to them from all of the techniques and play around with them. I think another take away is that, especially for home cooks, there is a romantic attachment to the steak that is almost unique. That the whole process is almost (maybe more?) as eating the slab of beef. That is fine, it is in the end about what brings you joy.

For the pro cooks, just remember its about what brings your customers joy. When it comes to technique its about results, not about what makes you feel good as a cook.

Al
post #133 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chef Torrie View Post

Why you quoted me and gave me a science lesson I have no idea; because I already know the science of it.

I simply stated it wasn't a new technique, and I'd rather roast my rib.

What it comes down to I you prefer all your meat sous vide and I do not.

 

 

Sorry I got carried away with the "Science lesson".

 

I was reacting to your statement "And no blood or juice? Uhm, I want "blood or juice" with my rib."

 

Everything I have read and seen so far says to give the steak lots of resting time for the blood and juice to be re-absorbed and minimum blood and juice on you plate.

 

dcarch

post #134 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllanMcPherson View Post

 But lets be honest, what makes a great grill cook is not hitting the right temp, its organizing the thirty steaks they have grilling, resting and plating.

 

 

This, this is who makes a $18/hr.

post #135 of 138

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Edited by tweakz - 10/27/14 at 10:40am
post #136 of 138
I suspect this thread is about to turn into something akin to a comic book fan forum discussing the outcome of a battle Thor and the Hulk. I am content to walk away at this point.

That said, I really ought to add my business to Sousvide Supreme's directory of use. Get me some o' dat precise temp chedda.
post #137 of 138
Agree to disagree. I never stated that SV was the oldest cooking method in the book, but your not going to convince me into calling it new. I have been using SV in a professional setting since I started cooking. There are many, many techniques\methods that are 3 or less years old that I have just began to play around with. You think Achatz would describe SV as new?
post #138 of 138
Forget cooking, putting meat to fire is no trick. The big deal is aging the meat, I buy steaks then give them a quick hour freeze just to stop the juices from flowing. Then I'll vacuum seal in foodsaver bags and leave in freezer for months to year beforing cooking.
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