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bread recipe, unsure about yeast amount - Page 2

post #31 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelGA View Post

...- you said "Gluten forms spontaneously" - what is described above is simply explaining how it is formed. (ie. the non-magical explanation)

- lastly you're not even talking about no-knead bread... poolish- kneading - resting - french folding etc.  (a great technique and great bread i'm sure)

 

If you want to see how much flavour yeast contributes, make your favourite recipe but leave out the yeast - then compare the taste of the unbaked dough... 

 

Without wanting to hijack this thread, what I'm trying to indicate is that my dough is not kneaded for several minutes, rather, just half a minute and I get satisfying results.  It's a "minimally" kneaded bread in other words.  As to the yeast, you're correct.  I remember using different yeasts for the beer I've made in the past and the yeasties did, indeed, influence the overall flavor.

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post #32 of 55

Michael, i was not kneading at the beginning but at the end, before forming the loaf that will then be put in the hot pan and baked.  

 

Kokopuffs, the recipe for no-knead bread is a very specific one, there is no kneading,  no poolish, and there is a 12 to 24 hour rise but in it, all the ingredients are present, and a second 1 - 2 hour rise of the formed loaf.  The flour i use is white flour, plain.  So the flavor that is formed is formed in the long cohabitation of the yeast, maybe some stuff that's in the air, and the flour and water.   Also even if i use whole wheat flour, it contains just whole wheat, no malt.  I don;t know what kind of flour you;re using, but you mention commercial flour so maybe that's why.  The no knead bread we're talking about is one loaf. 

"Siduri said, 'Gilgamesh, where are you roaming? You will never find the eternal life that you seek...Savour your food, make each of your days a delight, ... let music and dancing fill your house, love the child who holds you by the hand and give your wife pleasure in your embrace.'"
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post #33 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by siduri View Post

Michael, i was not kneading at the beginning but at the end, before forming the loaf that will then be put in the hot pan and baked.  

 

Kokopuffs, the recipe for no-knead bread is a very specific one, there is no kneading,  no poolish, and there is a 12 to 24 hour rise but in it, all the ingredients are present, and a second 1 - 2 hour rise of the formed loaf.  The flour i use is white flour, plain.  So the flavor that is formed is formed in the long cohabitation of the yeast, maybe some stuff that's in the air, and the flour and water.   Also even if i use whole wheat flour, it contains just whole wheat, no malt.  I don;t know what kind of flour you;re using, but you mention commercial flour so maybe that's why.  The no knead bread we're talking about is one loaf. 


Your long rise, 12 to 24 hours, partly accounts for the flavor, allowing the carbos aka starches to break down in to sugars and sugars contribute to flavor.  Hence the long rise for sourdoughs as well.  The addition of diastatic malt aka malted barley speeds up the conversion of starch into sugar.

 

EDIT: most of the mass produced flours in America already have malted barley added to it for that purpose but not so with the smaller mills.  And yes, I certainly add a bit of my own to the doughs already having MB included in it.

Now as to flour for my 6C loaf:

 

1C of either rye or WW or KA Bread Flour

 

5C of either KA AP flour or White Lily Bread flour (both of these flours clock in at 4g protein/serving)

 

And imho White Lily AP flour is just too light to use as an AP flour in breadmaking.

 


Edited by kokopuffs - 5/8/13 at 4:58pm

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post #34 of 55

Kokopuffs, Pretty much all everyday Italian bread (in italy) is made with white flour - actually much lighter than american all purpose flour,.  I don't know what lily white is, so i can't say.  Anyway, the flour we get here, 0 or 00, is actually too soft for baking American cookies and piecrusts with, and i have to decrease the fat and increase the flour to get them not to be greasy and flat.  But it makes fine bread.  I like both white and dark bread, but for scraping up condiments at the bottom of the salad, or various sauces that remain on the dish, i think white is the best backdrop to these.   Another traditional italian bread is made with beige flour, probably sifted whole wheat.  It';s got a nice subtle nutty taste. 

 

In Italy the contents of bread are controlled by law, flour, water, salt and yeast.  No other stuff.  Though judging by the rapid deterioration of italian breads in the last 10-20 years i suspect they get around that by buying treated flour.  So now i make my own. 

"Siduri said, 'Gilgamesh, where are you roaming? You will never find the eternal life that you seek...Savour your food, make each of your days a delight, ... let music and dancing fill your house, love the child who holds you by the hand and give your wife pleasure in your embrace.'"
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post #35 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by siduri View Post

...Another traditional italian bread is made with beige flour, probably sifted whole wheat.  It';s got a nice subtle nutty taste.

It's probably "clear flour" that you're referring to.  Just google it.  It's sifted WW to certain degrees.

 

White Lily is a flour made in the southern U.S. and to me it feels like a soft wheat, softer than the more commonly widespread Pillsbury and KA flours, and I really prefer the softer crumb that White Lily Bread Flour produces compared to the other two flours that I mentioned.


Edited by kokopuffs - 5/9/13 at 1:54am

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post #36 of 55

It might be more like italian 00 flour then.  But i can't say for sure.  They also sell a bread flour here recently, called "manitoba" which i presume is a harder (winter) wheat.  Italian wheat is harvested in june, so i believe that's why it's very soft. 

"Siduri said, 'Gilgamesh, where are you roaming? You will never find the eternal life that you seek...Savour your food, make each of your days a delight, ... let music and dancing fill your house, love the child who holds you by the hand and give your wife pleasure in your embrace.'"
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post #37 of 55

And also in America, clear flour is used often in rye breads.

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post #38 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by siduri View Post

It might be more like italian 00 flour then.  But i can't say for sure.  They also sell a bread flour here recently, called "manitoba" which i presume is a harder (winter) wheat.  Italian wheat is harvested in june, so i believe that's why it's very soft. 


Manitoba flour, read here.

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post #39 of 55
Thread Starter 

Thanks all, i'm getting more and more clued up about baking bread!

I tried baking my bread again, This time I thought maybe I should make sure the gluten get developed, so I actually tried kneading the no-knead bread.(This was before reading Michael's response to Siduri). The end result was about the same as my previous result, except that it didn't collapse.

The bread has risen to its maximum level in about an hour (I had it rise for about 3 hours, but took a look every so often)

Testing it by sticking your finger in it doesn't work in this case. The dough is so wet, it just sticks to your finger and you can't see an indentation at all

 

What do you guys all think of the amount of water used in this bread? It sounds and feels high to me (85%)?

The previous no knead breads I have made were around 75%

 

I like the taste of this bread and am now looking at the following options:

 

I keep the recipe more or less the same, use less yeast, and let rise for a long period

- Should I keep the same amount of water or bring it down to 75%

- Would the flavour change? I imagine all sugar in the honey will be used by the yeast and the flavour will change

 

I change the recipe and make this into a knead-bread.

- I reduce the water to about 65%, knead for 10 minutes, let rest for as long as it takes (presumably 1-3 hours), knock back, give it a short rise and bake

 

Talking flour:

We have not much choice here. It is real white bread country!

We have

- AP flour

- Bread flour (white)

- Self raising flour

- Cake flour

- Brown flour (wholemeal)

It is the last one I am using at the moment.

 

I'm starting to like this whole bread baking thing, so once I have tackled this, I want to go to sourdoughs and Italian and French breads (as far as possible with the limited choice of flour),

Thanks for all the help, comments etc from everyone and don't worry about hijacking treads, it all serves to increase my knowledge!

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post #40 of 55

Glad you like our hijacks and diversions.  I don;t know about ratios, but if you want to do the poke test, either wet your finger first, and it shouldn't stick, or flour it very well - probably if the dough is so wet, i'd wet it. 

And try the same but with 1/4 tsp yeast and rising 18-24 hours.  no kneading.  It will be tastier and last a week in a paper bag.  It was a real revelation for me. 

"Siduri said, 'Gilgamesh, where are you roaming? You will never find the eternal life that you seek...Savour your food, make each of your days a delight, ... let music and dancing fill your house, love the child who holds you by the hand and give your wife pleasure in your embrace.'"
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"Siduri said, 'Gilgamesh, where are you roaming? You will never find the eternal life that you seek...Savour your food, make each of your days a delight, ... let music and dancing fill your house, love the child who holds you by the hand and give your wife pleasure in your embrace.'"
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post #41 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by butzy View Post

...I like the taste of this bread and am now looking at the following options:

 

I keep the recipe more or less the same, use less yeast, and let rise for a long period

- Should I keep the same amount of water or bring it down to 75%

- Would the flavour change? I imagine all sugar in the honey will be used by the yeast and the flavour will change

 

I change the recipe and make this into a knead-bread.

- I reduce the water to about 65%, knead for 10 minutes, let rest for as long as it takes (presumably 1-3 hours), knock back, give it a short rise and bake

 

Talking flour:

We have not much choice here. It is real white bread country!

We have

- AP flour

- Bread flour (white)

- Self raising flour

- Cake flour

- Brown flour (wholemeal)

It is the last one I am using at the moment.

Experimentation works great.  Try making loaves with a 55% hydration.

Also you'll probably get a taller, quicker rise and oven spring using a mixture of AP and (about 17%) bread flour.

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post #42 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by siduri View Post

Glad you like our hijacks and diversions.  I don;t know about ratios, but if you want to do the poke test, either wet your finger first, and it shouldn't stick, or flour it very well - probably if the dough is so wet, i'd wet it. 

And try the same but with 1/4 tsp yeast and rising 18-24 hours.  no kneading.  It will be tastier and last a week in a paper bag.  It was a real revelation for me. 


Can this 18-24 hour ferment be proofed in a banneton or is it worked at all?  Proofed in a banneton/brotform?

 

Also I'm not certain if the month of harvesting the wheat has anything to do with "hardness or softness" of the kernel.

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post #43 of 55

This would be the first rise, in the bowl you mix it in.  You mix it in the bowl, just so all the flour has gotten wet, then let it sit (i stick the whole bowl in a plastic bag) and after 18-24 hours i form it (usually what i do is dust with flour so i can handle it, pull it out, and in mid air fold it and pull the outside under, adding the flour needed not to let it stick, maybe for half a minute, and then i sit it on a piece of baking paper set in a bowl or frying pan, put that all in a plastic bag, while i heat the oven to about 450 with a cast iron pot and its cover inside.  It rises an hour or two, while the pot gets hot, and then when it tests ready (poking method) i lift paper and all and put it in the hot pot, cover it and cook for half hour, open the cover and cook another ten min or until it's the color i like and a skewer inserted inside comes out dry. 

 

I imagine if you use a baneton, you would put it in the baneton only after the long rise, and then after that transfer it to a baking stone.  I don;t have a stone, and like the round bread.  I'd actually like to get a rectangular cast iron pot for everyday use, because the slices are more even, and it wouldn;t affect the bread. 

 

Here's my recipe, derived from the original published in the NYTimes, which i adapted and then revised after reading the Cooks Illustrated version. 

 

4 cups flour

1/4 tsp dry active yeast

2 tsp salt

1 1/2 cups water

a squirt of vinegar (i add this, when i remember, because our water is particularly hard and it seems to help it rise better)

 

Mix the dry ingredients in a big bowl, add the liquid, mix only until combined, adding more water if necessary to easily wet all the flour at the bottom (i usually have to add some) to make a "raggedy" dough. 

 

Put the bowl in a plastic shopping bag, let it sit 18 - 24 hour (i do 24 because i can mix in the evening and bake the next evening, when i have the time, but i've done it 12 hours, morning to evening, when i've needed it more urgently)

 

Flour the top, lift out of bowl and fold it (on a table or in the air or in the bowl itself) a few times, always "inward" so you get the layers of gluten entrapping the top surface of the bread and a little surface tension there.

 

Put a sheet of parchment paper on a small frying pan or a soup bowl, lay the dough rounded side up on it.  Flour the top, stick pan and all in a plastic bag. I imagine this is used in lieu of a baneton

 

Turn on oven to 450 and put a cast iron pot and its cover in the oven (you can really use any sort of pan, with cover, as long as it's somewhat heavy at least on the bottom, and has no plastic parts, or i imagine you could heat a stone, or a stone and a clean ceramic flower pot to put over the top.  The idea is the heat comes in from all sides, like in a brick oven.  I also believe i read the steam trapped in it makes for a more crackly crust (lke a steam injected oven)  Let it all sit for 1 - 2 hours until tests ready. 

Slit the top deeply with a really sharp knife with a decisive movement (i like to cut it in a cross, so the crust is more manageable to slice without coming off in chunks later)

Lift the paper and dough like lifting a cow in a sling and set it all, paper and dough, inside the hot pot, cover immediately and bake for 1/2 hour - uncover, and bake another ten to twenty minutes till colored as you like it and tests done (tapping sounds hollow, skewer comes out clean, or whatever you prefer)

 

This makes the bread i used in the tiny picture i use as my avatar. 

 

I've made it with `100% whole  wheat flour, have done variations with parts of the flour substituted with any or more of the following: whole wheat, rye, 1 tbsp wheat germ (gives a wheatier taste), 1/3 or so cup oatmeal, cornmeal, all or part kamut flour.  The white flour rises more, the others less, but are also really good.  The 100% whole wheat makes a nice rustic loaf, the way people have eaten for ages, a little lower but very good. 

 

My understanding from what i;ve read is that winter wheat is smaller but more glutinous, and summer wheat more carbohydratous smile.gif but i don;t remember where i read that.  (And i certainly didn;t read "carbohydratous")

"Siduri said, 'Gilgamesh, where are you roaming? You will never find the eternal life that you seek...Savour your food, make each of your days a delight, ... let music and dancing fill your house, love the child who holds you by the hand and give your wife pleasure in your embrace.'"
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post #44 of 55
Quote:

Originally Posted by siduri View Post...


Here's my recipe, derived from the original published in the NYTimes, which i adapted and then revised after reading the Cooks Illustrated version. 

 

...a squirt of vinegar (i add this, when i remember, because our water is particularly hard and it seems to help it rise better)

 

... I also believe i read the steam trapped in it makes for a more crackly crust (lke a steam injected oven) ...

 

...My understanding from what i;ve read is that winter wheat is smaller but more glutinous, and summer wheat more carbohydratous smile.gif but i don;t remember where i read that.  (And i certainly didn;t read "carbohydratous")

 

...A squirt of vinegar to neutralize the water's hardness.

...Water aka "steam" trapped inside of the dough accounts for the oven spring and therefore holes.  Initially bakers will fill their ovens with steam to produce the maillard (?) reaction at the surface, transforming sugars into caramel and therefore producing the crackly crust..

...Carbohydratous = higher in starch and therefore lower in protein (gluten).  With flour, there's an inverse relationship between gluten and starch.

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post #45 of 55

Siduri,

 

To make bread with an airy and open structure requires two things.  You've got to develop the glutens, and the dough has to have enough little pockets of the right size so that they expand as the bread bakes.   

 

Your problem probably isn't gluten related. 

 

Most probably, when you talk about making a ball with the dough, you're kinda-sorta describing a technique called "pulling down."  The purpose of pulling down is to create a tight skin on a loaf so the loaf will hold its shape when it's baked on a stone or pan and not in a loaf pan or other vessel.  But, since you're baking in a vessel it's not doing you any good and only doing you wrong.  You're collapsing the dough when you do it, and even though you get some rise back during the second proofing period, you've destroyed the cells from the first proof, that they won't expand during the oven-spring period. 

 

So don't do it.

 

Instead of pulling down, use the French-fold technique, trying to deflate the dough as little as possible.  Our man Kokopuffs is expert at combining the French-fold and no-knead techniques.       

 

BDL

post #46 of 55

Thanks BDL.  That's useful.  While I'm not looking for "light and airy" but rather "chewy and holey",  i imagine this is equally applicable.  I want to get the feel of bread as it used to be sold here, and is no longer, alas.  The bread was heavy, as in it appeared to have a high mass, but had holes throughout it.  Holes about half a cm or more, though somewhat lower and wider, which i presume were openings between the gluten strata. 

 

When we still had the old type of "real" bread here, but the lighter probably fast-rising bread was becoming more common, i would watch the storekeeper pick up the loaf (they usually have big 2 kg loaves, and they cut off a chunk depending on how much you want).  I would watch the hand and arm to calculate how heavy it was.   Most Italians would want "light" bread and so i would also ask, is it heavy or light, and so if it was light, they would always say so, thinking that was what i wanted.  But the look of their arm lifting the big loaf was the best gauge. 

 

I can still find, at an exorbitant price, bread from Lariano, outside of rome, which has those qualities, but more often than not it's fake lariano, and light as a feather.  And dry.  And tasteless. 

 

When i get a baking stone or metal plate or whatever, i'll try the same principles to make english muffins (which i have no intention of cooking in a frying pan, since it takes too long and too much watching and always burn on me).  But the holeyness (not, holiness, please) in the context of a certain mass (or chewiness)  is what i'm looking for. In the bread i'm searching for there are little threads of glutenous dough that are suspended stiffly through the hole sometimes - a sign of chewiness.  . 

 

Meanwhile i think my problem is that i've been overworking the dough and making it too dry. 

 

And kokopuffs, is it the steam that's produced by the water in the dough that  makes for the holes?  I thought it was the gasses produced by the growing yeasts and their, ahem, digestion.  I didn't imagine bread would get up to water boiling temperature.  But maybe the water is necessary for their larger growth?

"Siduri said, 'Gilgamesh, where are you roaming? You will never find the eternal life that you seek...Savour your food, make each of your days a delight, ... let music and dancing fill your house, love the child who holds you by the hand and give your wife pleasure in your embrace.'"
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post #47 of 55
Thread Starter 

Right, turned the original recipe into a no-knead bread. Well, almost the original recipe....

Ingredients: 500 gr wholemeal flour, 325 ml water, 1/4 teaspoon yeast, 1 tablespoon honey, 1/2 tablespoon salt

all the ingredients except water

after mixing (with a big plastic flat spoon)

after rising (about 13 hours or so)

quickly formed into a ball and ready for second rest (I used cornmeal to prevent sticking)

it was a cold day today (bored while pre-heating the oven to 220 oC with the cast iron pot inside it)

bread in the pot after 20 minutes with lid and 25 minutes or so without.

cooling down for a little while before slicing

the first slice

 

I tried measuring the temperature of the bread with an instant read thermometer. It was well over 95 oC, soI might have been measuring steam or so instead smile.gif

Anyway, as expected, the bread tastes a little different from the one I tried before. It seems slightly less nutty. I can't taste the slight sweetness of the honey anymore either (which doesn't really surprise me as the yeast probably ate it).

 

It is a dense bread again, but like Siduri, I don't mind that at all

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post #48 of 55

Siduri,


Meanwhile i think my problem is that i've been overworking the dough and making it too dry.

 

Whatever the problem is (or are), I can safely guaranty that when it comes to low or no-knead breads, overworking is not among them.   

 

Allowing the dough to rise too long so that it became too flabby, or tightening the dough too much when you pulled it down are the most likely causes.  The best solutions are to keep you eye on the rise -- don't count on the clock to do it for you; and to French fold.

 

I'm not a low no-knead baker, but he and I Kokopuffs and I have been talking about baking with the French fold technique since we met on this forum. 

 

Maybe you should try posting on The Fresh Loaf, but Kokopuffs has been doing low and no-kneads for a long time, and can probably help you as much as anyone -- providing the two of you don't go too far the ingredients rabbit hole.  He's the first person of anyone I know in real life or online I'd want to walk me through the processes.

 

I gotta say though that if there's some particular, traditional type of bread you want to make, your best bet is to use traditional techniques and not try to short cut it with "no knead."  You can always use the "retarded rise" technique so you can go to work or whatever your meshuggeh priorities tell you is more important than baking. 

 

BDL


Edited by boar_d_laze - 5/13/13 at 10:47am
post #49 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by siduri View Post

...And kokopuffs, is it the steam that's produced by the water in the dough that  makes for the holes?  I thought it was the gasses produced by the growing yeasts and their, ahem, digestion.  I didn't imagine bread would get up to water boiling temperature.  But maybe the water is necessary for their larger growth?

 

Carbon dioxide + steam = hole enlargement = oven spring.

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post #50 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by butzy View Post

Right, turned the original recipe into a no-knead bread. Well, almost the original recipe....

Ingredients: 500 gr wholemeal flour, 325 ml water, 1/4 teaspoon yeast, 1 tablespoon honey, 1/2 tablespoon salt


cooling down for a little while before slicing

the first slice

 

I tried measuring the temperature of the bread with an instant read thermometer. It was well over 95 oC, soI might have been measuring steam or so instead smile.gif

Anyway, as expected, the bread tastes a little different from the one I tried before. It seems slightly less nutty. I can't taste the slight sweetness of the honey anymore either (which doesn't really surprise me as the yeast probably ate it).

 

It is a dense bread again, but like Siduri, I don't mind that at all

 

What I think I'll do is post a new thread in the near future entitled "Koko's low knead bread".

Is whole meal flour the same as whole wheat?  If so, then you might get better, lighter results substituting AP for at least half to 5/6ths of the whole meal.  And I'm not insinuating anything here but perhaps if this is pretty much your first experience with bread making/baking, I would suggest first learning how to make a standard loaf of bread with nothing more than 5/6th AP and 16th bread flour using an appropriate amount of yeast that'll take the bread thru the final proofing at the 8 -12 hour mark once the dough has been mixed and kneaded.  Once you've gotten down a "standard" loaf, then you branch out into something more 'complex' as it were with the 'no knead' bread.

 

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post #51 of 55
Thread Starter 

this is the flour (and yeast) I used. There is no extra info on the bag.

 

I don't have that much experience baking bread. I have made pizza and foccacia on a fairly regular base though.

 

Then I saw an easy recipe in a newspaper and I tried that. That was with white flour. Not the best bread I have ever had, but a lot better than we can get here.

From there I went to a couple of no-knead breads with different amounts of wholemeal (wholewheat/brown?) flour. Again all very edible.

Then I stumbled on a recipe that was sort of a quick no-knead bread and that one caused most of the posts above.

 

The thing is : I like chewy bread. The commercial breads we can normally get around here are just air. There is no bite (or flavour) left in them.

The white bread is terrible, the brown bread is like white bread and almost the same colour. The wholewheat is a bit better, but still too open, airy and not enough flavour.

Hence my experiments.

I was thinking of making a "normal" knead bread next, again with wholewheat/meal/brown flour (400 gr), about 55-60% water, packet of yeast, bit of sugar or honey, tablespoon of salt.

Kneading for about 10 minutes, rising, knocking back and baking at about 200 oC.

Do you see anything wrong with the idea or amounts?

 

By the way, what would happen if you put a normal knead bread in a preheated cast iron pot? Would that work as well?

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post #52 of 55

Thanks both bdl and kokopuffs. 

as soon as i can find a way to make a living otherwise Bdl, i will gladly turn my baking into my number one priority.  Or any other manual job, for that matter.  I'm sick of sitting!  The no knead gives me the flavor i like, i just want to get back the texture i used to have. 

"Siduri said, 'Gilgamesh, where are you roaming? You will never find the eternal life that you seek...Savour your food, make each of your days a delight, ... let music and dancing fill your house, love the child who holds you by the hand and give your wife pleasure in your embrace.'"
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"Siduri said, 'Gilgamesh, where are you roaming? You will never find the eternal life that you seek...Savour your food, make each of your days a delight, ... let music and dancing fill your house, love the child who holds you by the hand and give your wife pleasure in your embrace.'"
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post #53 of 55
Thread Starter 
Kokopuffs: what would you figure is the best type of bread to make for a beginner? And would you have a detailed recipe?
There are a couple of limitations:
I cannot get fresh yeast, so it has to be either instant or dry active yeast
The only flour I can get is brown (wholemeal), bread flour and household flour (all purpose?)
I use a gas oven.
I have cast iron pots and a couple of tins, although the material of latter is quite thin, more like a cake tin.
I don't mind if it needs kneading or not. I just want to make some good bread!

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post #54 of 55

Makes a 2 pound loaf and this recipe can be halved.  I use a baking stone for a better oven spring and I use very hot water both for better penetration of water into the flour and for a better rise and oven spring.

 

TOTAL INGREDIENTS

 

6C flour (5C AP + 1C or either bread, rye or whole wheat flour)  Beginners should stick with 1C of BREAD FLOUR.

1 1/2 tsp SAF Red Instant Yeast

2 tsp salt

Water (approx 2C but this with be detailed in the following steps)]

 

Optional:

 

1/2 - 1 tsp diastatic malt for a better rise and oven spring

2 TBS Olive Oil to increase shelf life greatly.

 

POOLISH

 

Start the poolish at 9 o'clock the night before since this is to be a TWELVE HOUR POOLISH.

 

2 1/4 C AP Flour

0.16 tsp instant yeast  (it's okay that this measurement is inexact...just use a heaping 1/8 tsp)

1 1/3 C minus 4TBS water heated to 125F - 130F  (you read this temperature correctly

1/2 - 1 tsp diastatic malt (this is optional)

 

Mix all of the dry ingredients then add water and mix well using a rubber spatula.   Cover the vessel.   And twelve hours later the poolish should have risen.  (I use a 2 QT dough bucket for the poolish)

 

 

THE DOUGH

 

3/4C + 1TBS water heated to 130F

The remaining ingredients

 

Start this procedure at 9 o'clock the following morning. 

 

Take the heated water and pour it around the periphery of the poolish to loosen it from it's container.  Use a rubber spatula to loosen.  Dump the poolish and water into an appropriately sized mixing bowl and mix almost thoroughly along with the optional 2 TBS OLIVE OIL.

 

Add the remaining dry ingredients (these should be mixed well beforehand) about one third at a time to insure the dough mixes well.  Don't over mix.  The dough will be quite shaggy with some dry ingredients left over.  Dump onto the counter top and stretch the dough to expose its moist interior.  Add as much dry ingredients to the moist interior as possible.  Knead once or twice.  Repeat once or twice the procedure to incorporate the remaining dry ingredients.

 

Knead for about half a minute plus some.  NO MORE.  The dough will be quite shaggy and perhaps dry in places at this point.  Don't worry.  Shape into a sphere and place in the mixing bowl you used for all of the ingredients.  Some of that dry flour coating the bowl will ultimately be incorporated into the dough as time goes on. 

 

Allow the dough to rest and rise 30 minutes on top of the oven.  Dump onto the slightly floured (slightly floured) counter top and shape into a rectangle approx 1 foot by 1 1/2 foot.  French fold, place back into the mixing bowl and allow to rest 20-25 minutes.

 

Repeat the rectangle and FF and allow to rest another 20-25 minutes.

 

Repeat that procedure once or twice more.

 

Then form into a sphere pulling and stretching the surface to underneath the sphere.  This creates surface tension.  Rest for 20 minutes.

 

Form the final shape and place into a banneton for final proofing.  (for a two pound loaf I use a long banneton measuring approx 18 inches in length) 

 

Allow to rest and rise/final proof for 30 minutes.  At the end of the rest the surface of the dough should feel slightly dry but don't worry if it doesn't.

 

THE BAKE

 

Slash the formed dough and place into an oven preheated to 500F.

 

After 10 minutes have passed, reduce temperature to 450-475F and allow to bake for 20 minutes more.

 

Remove from the oven and allow the loaf to rest for a couple of hours prior to serving.

 

 

 

You'll notice that the dough is quite warm and I allow the dough to rest on top of the oven for added warmth and a better rise.


Edited by kokopuffs - 5/16/13 at 9:43am

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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
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post #55 of 55
Thread Starter 

For whoever is following this thread:

it continues here: http://www.cheftalk.com/t/75815/my-batard

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