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Wondering if new stone is.needed

post #1 of 7
Thread Starter 
Hello everyone

I am somewhat new to free hand sharpening and I currently have the ctkg 5 Pc set with the bester 500, 1200 and the rika5000. I am currently at culinary school and for what I am doing I use the 1200 grit and stop because the edge has more teeth to cut tomatoes, but I just think the edge is not fine enough. The 5000 is great for every thing else but also doesn't hold the edge for
very long maybe one day. I am thinking of picking up a medium/fine grit stone what do you guys think, maybe like a 2000 to 3000, would you say 2000 is too close to the bested 1200. Any rec thanks.

Allen lum
post #2 of 7
As far as I know, the Rica 5k is rather to be compared to 3k stones. The jump to the Rika shouldn't be the cause of your problem, and an intermediate grit - beside being redundant - will cause more new problems than it solves.

Normally a finer edge should stand much longer than a toothy one, excepted for very soft steels.
A polished edge should encounter less resistance.
What knife is involved - more precisely, what steel?
Without that information one may guess the problem is caused by a remaining burr c.q. wire edge - a special form of burr.
Make sure to deburr between every stone, stay much longer on the coarsest one, reduce considerably pressure with finer stones, end with edge trailing strokes on your finest.
post #3 of 7

Very sharp right off the stones -> dulls very quickly... Almost always means a wire.  You're not thoroughly chasing and not completely deburring.   

 

The Suehiro Rika acts like a 3K AND a 5K.  3K if you don't break down the "mud," and 5K if you do. 

 

As Ben said, you don't need any sort of intermediate between the Bester 1.2K and the Rika.

 

BDL

post #4 of 7
Thread Starter 
Thanks benuser and Bel for your replies

I have a tojiro itk (white #2) and shun (vg10)

What would I do to fix or remove the wire edge? I do remove the burr with a deburr block between stones. How would I break the mud for the rika for the the 5k stone. Please help want to get my sharpening down before I get my new knife

Thanks everyone
allen
post #5 of 7

Before deburring, you have to "chase" the burr until you can get it to flip sides with a single stroke.  At that point it should come off easily by drawing the edge through your felt block. 

 

A Rika is a great beginners stone because it produces so much mud, and gives such definite feedback. 

 

Here's how to chase the burr while breaking down the mud so it goes from 3K to 5K:

  • Start by developing some mud on the (wet) Rika by rubbing it and your well-soaked and well rinsed 1.2K together; 
  • Stop lapping the Rika with the 1.2K when the Rika's surface starts producing mud;   
  • Put the muddy Rika on a mat or in a holder, sprinkle it with some extra water, and start sharpening the first side of the knife.  Use a "sectioning" motion, where you use back and forth strokes to sharpen one part of the edge, with moderate pressure.  Keep at it until you've drawn a burr;
  • If the mud is black (from the filings which came off the knife) rinse the stone; otherwise
  • Move on to the second side of the knife (the action of knife against stone will be enough to produce new mud), and keep going until you've got a definite burr;
  • Rinse the stone;
  • Turn the knife over and repeat, keep going until you've flipped the burr;
  • Turn the knife over again, rinse the stone if the mud is very dirty.  Flip the burr again;
  • When the burr flips easily, rinse the stone, and change the geometry of your sharpening strokes from "sectioning" to "length of knife;"
  • Use as many length of knife strokes as it takes to flip the burr;
  • Flip the knife, do the same thing, but do not rinse the mud.  You're going to keep it until you're done.  Just add sprinkles water as needed to keep it from drying out;
  • Reduce the pressure of your strokes from moderate to light;
  • Keep this up until the burr flips from side to side with a single stroke;  and
  • Deburr

 

As a result of all the work, and the addition of extra water, the abrasive the mud will feel fine and "creamy," with much less sensation of grit than it had when you started.  With practice, you'll be able to detect when the mud has fully broken down through the knife as you sharpen.

 

BDL

post #6 of 7
A very nice description of both burr chasing and mud refinement, BDL. However, I'm a little sceptic about the burr coming off. Especially with VG-10 that's not so evident, and when it comes off, it may leave a damaged edge as well. I believe the VG-10 burr has really to be abraded with very light, edge leading strokes.
post #7 of 7
However, I'm a little sceptic about the burr coming off. Especially with VG-10 that's not so evident, and when it comes off, it may leave a damaged edge as well. I believe the VG-10 burr has really to be abraded with very light, edge leading strokes.

 

Your description of pieces of burr remaining, leads me to infer that the VG-10 edge was insufficiently chased (and fatigued) rather than to conclude there's some specific problem between the process and VG-10.   

 

In my experience the chasing and deburring process works as well with VG-10 as with most other modern stainless alloys; although I suppose problems might arise if the particular manufacturer's heat treatment made the alloy chip prone.   And it's true that chippy VG-10 isn't uncommon. 

 

By way of just a few examples, Tojro and Hattori VG-10 are not chippy, but Shun and Togiharu VG-10 are. 

 

For whatever it's worth, I have no trouble chasing and deburring a Shun or any other VG-10 knife I've sharpened in the manner I described above.  Chipping seem to come with use and (too vigorous or too frequent) steeling more than with sharpening.  I've always found sharpening VG-10 fairly straightforward; with the worst part being VG-10's scratchy and unpleasant feel on the stones.        

 

Also, it hasn't been my experience that honing (i.e., edge leading) strokes are more efficient for dissolving a burr than stropping (i.e., edge trailing) strokes.  With either, it's a matter of knowing how to do it.  Deburring with honing strokes requires you to rotate the knife somewhat with every (full length) stroke.    

 

BDL

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