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My Batard

post #1 of 23
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Makes a 2 pound loaf and this recipe can be halved.  I use a baking stone for a better oven spring and I use very hot water both for better penetration of water into the flour and for a better rise and oven spring.

 

TOTAL INGREDIENTS

 

6C flour (5C AP + 1C or either bread, rye or whole wheat flour)  Beginners should stick with 1C of BREAD FLOUR.

1 1/2 tsp SAF Red Instant Yeast

2 tsp salt

Water (approx 2C but this with be detailed in the following steps)]

 

Optional:

 

1/2 - 1 tsp diastatic malt for a better rise and oven spring

2 TBS Olive Oil to increase shelf life greatly.

 

POOLISH

 

Start the poolish at 9 o'clock the night before since this is to be a TWELVE HOUR POOLISH.

 

2 1/4 C AP Flour

0.16 tsp instant yeast  (it's okay that this measurement is inexact...just use a heaping 1/8 tsp)

1 1/3 C minus 4TBS water heated to 125F - 130F  (you read this temperature correctly

1/2 - 1 tsp diastatic malt (this is optional)

 

Mix all of the dry ingredients then add water and mix well using a rubber spatula.   Cover the vessel.   And twelve hours later the poolish should have risen.  (I use a 2 QT dough bucket for the poolish)

 

 

THE DOUGH

 

3/4C + 1TBS water heated to 130F

The remaining ingredients

 

Start this procedure at 9 o'clock the following morning. 

 

Take the heated water and pour it around the periphery of the poolish to loosen it from it's container.  Use a rubber spatula to loosen.  Dump the poolish and water into an appropriately sized mixing bowl and mix almost thoroughly along with the optional 2 TBS OLIVE OIL.

 

Add the remaining dry ingredients (these should be mixed well beforehand) about one third at a time to insure the dough mixes well.  Don't over mix.  The dough will be quite shaggy with some dry ingredients left over.  Dump onto the counter top and stretch the dough to expose its moist interior.  Add as much dry ingredients to the moist interior as possible.  Knead once or twice.  Repeat once or twice the procedure to incorporate the remaining dry ingredients.

 

Knead for about half a minute plus some.  NO MORE.  The dough will be quite shaggy and perhaps dry in places at this point.  Don't worry.  Shape into a sphere and place in the mixing bowl you used for all of the ingredients.  Some of that dry flour coating the bowl will ultimately be incorporated into the dough as time goes on. 

 

Allow the dough to rest and rise 30 minutes on top of the oven.  Dump onto the slightly floured (slightly floured) counter top and shape into a rectangle approx 1 foot by 1 1/2 foot.  French fold, place back into the mixing bowl and allow to rest 20-25 minutes.

 

Repeat the rectangle and FF and allow to rest another 20-25 minutes.

 

Repeat that procedure once or twice more.

 

Then form into a sphere pulling and stretching the surface to underneath the sphere.  This creates surface tension.  Rest for 20 minutes.

 

Form the final shape and place into a banneton for final proofing.  (for a two pound loaf I use a long banneton measuring approx 18 inches in length) 

 

Allow to rest and rise/final proof for 30 minutes.  At the end of the rest the surface of the dough should feel slightly dry but don't worry if it doesn't.

 

THE BAKE

 

Slash the formed dough and place into an oven preheated to 500F.

 

After 10 minutes have passed, reduce temperature to 450-475F and allow to bake for 20 minutes more.

 

Remove from the oven and allow the loaf to rest for a couple of hours prior to serving.

 

 

 

You'll notice that the dough is quite warm and I allow the dough to rest on top of the oven for added warmth and a better rise.

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post #2 of 23

Thanks for the recipe Kokopuffs.

I am going to give it a try :).

Hopefully tonight if I can find the flour.

I bought lots of bread flour, assuming that is what I needed for baking bread. I will just have to borrow some all purpose till I go to town next.

 

I didn't know what a banneton was, and obviously don't have one so I googled it. I am sure I can make something from a basket or maybe part of my bamboo rice steamer, but that would give it a round shape.

Do you think that would work instead of the more standard shape?

 

I am excited!!!!!

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post #3 of 23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by butzy View Post
I didn't know what a banneton was, and obviously don't have one so I googled it. I am sure I can make something from a basket or maybe part of my bamboo rice steamer, but that would give it a round shape.

Do you think that would work instead of the more standard shape?

 

I am excited!!!!!

Banneton = Brotform, here.  Their prices are the lowest I've seen.

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post #4 of 23

Nice link, but shipping to Africa is a pain in general (expensive, time consuming , if the stuff arrives at all :( )

I suppose I will have to wait till I get back to Holland.

In the mean time, my poolish is ready in a couple of hours and I will find something to proof the dough into.

I am doing the full amount of dough, so maybe I just split in 2 and make one round bread and one more classic batard style.

Will keep you posted about the result.

While working on the recipe I am putting everything to metric (as I am more used to that than cups measurement). And thanks for emphasizing the water temperature. I would definitely have thought it to be a typing mistake as it is very hot and I would have assumed it would kill the yeast. But it ain't as the poolish is rising nicely

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post #5 of 23

We are a couple of hours later and I finished making the loaves.

It was quite different from what I have normally done and seen, almost more like making a pizza dough with the stretching and folding.

The first time the dough was quite crumbly and floury, with quite a bit of flour still left in the dough.

From the second time on, it really started to feel like a bread dough and eventually all flour got incorporated.

I did the french fold 4 times, then after resting divided the dough in 2, let it rest again and then formed one part into something vaguely resembling a batard. This then had the final proofing done in a cake tin lined with oiled and floured grease proof paper.

The other half was shaped more or less into a ball and then put in a floured bread basket (with the seam side up).

I pre-heated the oven to max while the dough was proofing. I also had a big cast iron plate in the oven to compensate for a baking stone (don't really know if that works, but it seemed like a good plan). I am not sure what temperature the oven eventually achieved (I need to buy an oven thermometer at some point in time).

After 10 minutes in the oven, I lowered the temperature somewhat and after the recommended time I pulled out the loaves. They sounded hollow when I tapped on them. They are now laying on racks to cool down.

I got some pictures, but unfortunately  I can't upload them at the moment, so they will come a bit later

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post #6 of 23

The pictures:

 

 

I would appreciate as much feedback as possible.

Is this what it more or less should look like?

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post #7 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by butzy View Post

The pictures:

 

 

I would appreciate as much feedback as possible.

Is this what it more or less should look like?

 



Those loaves look much better than the previous one.  How do they taste?  Can you provide a clearer, sharper photo of the crumb?

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

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post #8 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by butzy View Post

...The first time the dough was quite crumbly and floury, with quite a bit of flour still left in the dough.

From the second time on, it really started to feel like a bread dough and eventually all flour got incorporated.

I did the french fold 4 times, then after resting divided the dough in 2, let it rest again and then formed one part into something vaguely resembling a batard. ...

IMHO the "10-15 minute knead" is not meant to develop gluten but rather to hasten absorption of the dried bits of flour into the dough, to speed up their acceleration.

 

The more you FF, the more closed the crumb becomes.

 

Oh, and the ears look great.  Listen, as you provide more hydration in the dough, the ears will disappear and for a continuous contour rather unpronounced!

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post #9 of 23
Thread Starter 

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

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post #10 of 23

I'll try to get a better picture of the crumb.

There are some holes in the bread, but most of them fairly small.

Maybe I should have done that fold only 3 times.

 

The crust was quite soft when it just came out of the oven, it got a bit crispier after 3-4 hours out of the oven, but never as crispy as I had hoped.

Could this be the oven temperature? I had the oven as high as it would go, but I got a feeling I should not have turned it down after the first 10 minutes, or maybe I should have kept the bread in for a bit longer? Oh, and I didn't use steam or had a plate of water at the bottom of the oven.

 

What would happen if you do a bread like this inside a pre-heated cast iron pot?

 

Would it be possible to make this batard fully out of wholewheat flour?

 

 

As far as those bannetons go: I will be able to get them from http://www.weekendbakery.com/webshop/nl/8-banneton-riet, or from amazon.co.uk

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post #11 of 23
Thread Starter 

Get a reliable oven thermometer to accurately measure oven temperature.  A loaf made from 100% WW will have LESS oven spring.

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-T

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post #12 of 23

I knew you were going to see that!

I'll get an oven thermometer eventually, but it will take a couple of months. No kitchen shops or whatsoever in this country (same story as for the bannetons).

Isn't there a rule of thumb of some sorts for testing oven temperature without thermometer (like you got for deep fryers and bread cubes)?

 

Anyway: here is hopefully a better picture of the structure of the bread

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post #13 of 23
Thread Starter 

You could also get yourself some untreated linen cloth dusted with flour to do the final proofing in.  Just shape the depression a little larger than the dough.

 

It appears that your crumb is opening up a little.  ...could be the flour you're using and I know nothing about flour(s) available in Africa but the croissants I ate in Algiers in '73 were tough as cardboard.  8P

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post #14 of 23

I didn't sift the flour?

Maybe I should?

 

This is the home made banneton I used to make a real bastard batard (round)

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post #15 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by butzy View Post

I didn't sift the flour?

Maybe I should?

 

This is the home made banneton I used to make a real bastard batard (round)

 

The banneton needs to have walls that are much MUCH steeper and nearly vertical.

As to measuring the flour, FLUFF THEN SCOOP and it wouldn't hurt to sift.   Here's what to do:  take scoop and fluff up the flour several times.  Then scoop some flour WITH THE SCOOP (not measuring cup) AND WITHOUT COMPRESSING THE FLOUR and dispense into your measuring cup.  Take a straight edge and move it along the top of the measuring cup to scrape away the excess flour.  When it comes to measuring flour, FLUFF THEN SCOOP always.

It appears that your loaf might be dense due to your measuring technique where the measuring cup doubles as a scoop.  NOT good.  8)

 

EDIT:  using that round straw-made device as shown in the photo, it produces what's called a 'boule' or ball as it were.  A BATARD aka TORPEDO is a long and narrow loaf of bread.


Edited by kokopuffs - 5/20/13 at 3:56am

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post #16 of 23
I did something in between.
I boorrowed ap flour, so it went into aa plastic back and from there i poured it into the cup measure.
I did note down the weight, so will sift and fluff (and huff and puff) and measure again.
I was brought up fully metric, which to me is the most accurate way of measuring ingredients.

The batard was hand shaped and put to rest in an oiled and floured cake tin, so there was a bit of support.
The boule was just a try out, and looked pretty OK, I cooled it and put in the freezer, so still have to assess the structure.
The fake-banneton for the boule was a bit steeper than it looks on the picture and the dough only took up a quarter of the space or so. As I said, I was playing around with it.
Thanks to all your help I am definitely getting somewhere with my bread exercises.
I'll let you know about the weights of the flour. It can surely make a difference.
Another factor might be that we are having a very low humidity at the moment, so maybe I should use some more water altogether?

In another thread autolysis was mentioned. Would it be a good idea to mix the flour and water together and only after about 30 minutes add the poolish, salt and yeast?

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post #17 of 23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by butzy View Post

...In another thread autolysis was mentioned. Would it be a good idea to mix the flour and water together and only after about 30 minutes add the poolish, salt and yeast?

Dunno' about this.

Tomorrow when I mix tonites poolish with the remaining ingredients I'll give you an idea on weights and bakers' percentages.  But keep in mind that I'm working with american flours!

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post #18 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by butzy View Post

...In another thread autolysis was mentioned. Would it be a good idea to mix the flour and water together and only after about 30 minutes add the poolish, salt and yeast?

 

At this point and with the volume that you're working with, don't worry about it as the timing and temperature I gave you to work with should be sufficient for the time being.  Just work to get that one loaf primo because once you do, you'll be able to come back to it if you diverge and things go awry.

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post #19 of 23
I appreciate that and wont make any changes until I am happy with what I am doing now, but, the mind keeps wandering....:-)
I did weigh a cup of fluffed, sifted floue and it is indeed a bit lighter than what I used. 140 grammes vs 150 grammes per cup.
So with my next try I'll be using a bit less flour (by weight).
Did you manage to get me some weights? Obviously, water is easy :-)

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post #20 of 23
We are quite a bit later and I am still using kokopuff's recipe (although a metricised version of it)!
Thanks Koko for getting me going this route :-)

I now have an oven thermometer and bannetons.
My oven is not nearly as hot as I hoped and a lot warmer at the back than the front, so I have had to increase the baking time to about 40-45 minutes at the highest heat.

With this recipe, what is the highest percentage wholewheat flour I could use? Could I make the poolish with ap flour and use wholewheat ffor the rest?
And could I use some of the finished dough to act as a starter? In the same way as a sourdough starter would work (obviously it isn't a sourdough starter!)

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post #21 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by butzy View Post

We are quite a bit later and I am still using kokopuff's recipe (although a metricised version of it)!
Thanks Koko for getting me going this route :-)

I now have an oven thermometer and bannetons.
My oven is not nearly as hot as I hoped and a lot warmer at the back than the front, so I have had to increase the baking time to about 40-45 minutes at the highest heat.

With this recipe, what is the highest percentage wholewheat flour I could use? Could I make the poolish with ap flour and use wholewheat ffor the rest?
And could I use some of the finished dough to act as a starter? In the same way as a sourdough starter would work (obviously it isn't a sourdough starter!)

 

Since we last spoke I've switched to using a scale for all of my ingredients.  The dough is 60% hydrated and my personal preference with whole wheat or rye flour is that it makes up no more than 16% of the flour's total weight.  And yes I've heard of using a portion of the dough to act as the next doughs starter.

 

My dough's total weight is around 1.3kg to which has been added less than 1/2 tsp instant yeast.  Twelve to eighteen hours later I'll start the final proofing and baking.  And the aroma of an eighteen hour matured dough is unmistakeable.

 

Both WW and RYE flours take much longer to hydrate than AP and so I might recommend adding a tiny bit of either to the preferment for more "softening" as it were.

 

Again since we last spoke, I mix all ingredients together and about 12 - 18 hours later the dough has ALMOST fully risen.  It's at that point that yeast has reached its maximum activity and it's at that point that I'll deflate, french fold and final proof before baking.

And there's nothing wrong with your loaf being baked for 45 minutes at lower temperatures.


Edited by kokopuffs - 2/17/14 at 2:13am

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post #22 of 23
So you keep on developing your recipe?
I like that.
I did one batch recently when I did not have enough ap flour, and made it up to the total weight with bread flour. This also worked.

Do I read correct that you no longer make a seperate starter, but mix everything together and leave for a long rise?
Do you still use the hot water? And finish off with a couple of french folds?

I quite like whole wheat bread, so will try one shortly with a higher percentage.
Because of the hydration, I think I will go half ap and half wholewheat in the poolish, and then again half/half for the second step. Or would it be a better idea to make the whole poolish with whole wheat flour?

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post #23 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by butzy View Post

So you keep on developing your recipe?
I like that.
I did one batch recently when I did not have enough ap flour, and made it up to the total weight with bread flour. This also worked.

Do I read correct that you no longer make a seperate starter, but mix everything together and leave for a long rise?
Do you still use the hot water? And finish off with a couple of french folds?

I quite like whole wheat bread, so will try one shortly with a higher percentage.
Because of the hydration, I think I will go half ap and half wholewheat in the poolish, and then again half/half for the second step. Or would it be a better idea to make the whole poolish with whole wheat flour?


Mixed all together at the same time with hot water and finally one french fold.  Make the poolish with mostly AP flour to produce more sugars than what WW provides.

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