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Whetstone(s) for mac and fujiwra fkm

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 

Hi everyone,

      I'm new to chef talk... and proper sharpening with whetstones. I was wondering what would be the best set up for sharpening my mac professional santoku, my fujiwara fkm 240mm gyuto, and my mac honesuki. I'm a professional line cook, but i have only used western knives and had them sharpened professionally,I would like to learn more about free hand sharpening and which stones to begin sharpening with ease, i have also made an impulse buy of the 400/1200 stone from jck.

post #2 of 13

First, I'm going to assume that BDL's advice 2-1/2 weeks ago in “Japanese knife – question about stones” is a good place to start on any recommendation for stones. The main difference is that you probably don't have the import or availability problems local to Canadians who are trying to find waterstones. That means you can go onto the web without import=export issues.

 

Second, with a handle of “Emerald City”, I'm going to go out on a (short) limb and guess that you are somewhere in the Seattle area, since the tourist office in Seattle added that monicker a few decades ago. Otherwise, you might (or might not) be somewhere over the Rainbow from Kansas anymore (Toto)

 

(Sorry, but I figured I needed to get that out of the way before someone else brings up the Yellow Brick Road)

 

There are going to be a lot of people who can give you excellent information about freehand sharpening information, stones and stone sets from such Internet retailers as CKTG, JCK and others, so I'm not going to go into instruction, choices of grit, stones or web retailers, but I will give some advice on local to the Seattle area brick and mortar places where stones can be found or ordered. I'm going to start by cribbing from my own post in that earlier thread.  That will be useful if your impulses in the Seattle area urge you to get a stone or two NOW, without waiting for delivery.

 

The Epicurean Edge (107 Central Way, Kirkland) has numerous stones, though many are identified on their web site as “Misc Maker” as the manufacturer..

 

Hardwick's (4214 Roosevelt Way NE, Seattle) does have smaller Suehiro stones (185mm x 64mm x 20mm), though I don't know if they are “Rica” line Suehiro's (for full details on Hardwick's, see my earlier post – which I can't seem to just lift and paste. Sorry).

 

Expanding on those two locations, I'm going to add Woodcraft (5963 Corson Avenue South, Seattle), which on their web site has numerous waterstones, from King stones, on up to Shapton Glass stones. Look up their web site to see the selection, and prices. I'll let you check on cross-comparing choice, availability and prices with CKTG and other web sites.

 

Hopefully, that helps.

 

Galley Swiller

post #3 of 13
Thread Starter 
Hey thanks alot I'll check out bdl's forum... However IM in the twin cities area... Any info is much appreciated
post #4 of 13

you'd be pretty ok with the combo stone for a while. i would just add a coarse diamond plate for flattening the stone and a suehiro rika 5k for finishing the edge.

 

=D

post #5 of 13

I have zero experience with Mac knives but I own a good number of Fujiwara FKM knives. I'm using mostly a King 1000/6000 combo whetstone. Works perfectly on my Fujiwaras but also on most other brands I have.

If I were you, I would forget about using the 400 side of your JCK stone but use the 1200 only until you get more experienced with sharpening.

post #6 of 13

The other thread was started by a Canadian -- and my suggestions were made accordingly.

 

Neither of your knives represents any particular challenge.  You don't need anything exotic, and certainly don't need to buy the most expensive stones money can buy -- but be aware that there are differences in performance and convenience, and you won't get what you don't pay for.  

 

All you really need to start with are two surfaces: 

  • A medium/coarse (in the 1K range) for creating an edge; and
  • A medium/fine (3K - 6K) for refining and polishing the edge. 

 

As Chris said, stay away from the 400!  At least stay away until you can sharpen consistently well with the other two.  Coarse stones can make big problems fast; and those problems can only be fixed on a coarse stone.  Vicious circle. 

 

You'll also require some way to flatten the stones -- before using them.  The two best methods are drywall screen (inexpensive) and a "diamond plate."  Good plates used to be very expensive, but CKtG sells one which is terrific for flattening (but not very good for sharpening) for $25ish. 

 

I don't want to start discussing the ins and outs of this stone or that stone, or throwing around a ton of stone recommendations until I get a sense of your price range, and whether or not you're wedded to the 400/1K you got from JCK. 

 

By way of a preview, I usually end up recommending either the combination of Beston 500, Bester 1.2K and Suehiro Rika 5K for people looking for a set good enough to last for years but not too expensive; or the Naniwa SS 400, 1000 and 3000 for people who want the same things and are willing to sacrifice a small amount of performance in exchange for near "splash and go" convenience. 

 

King stones like the one Chris uses are less expensive.  While they're "slower" and less consistent, they're still more than adequate.   

 

There's no really good reason to buy stones from a brick and mortar; e-tail is fine.  The best sources for Japanese made, synthetic water stones in the US are CKtG, JKI, and Japanese Knife Sharpening.  Let me caveat JKI a bit in that their "Gesshin" stones are extremely expensive (but well worth it if you're looking for the best).  

 

BDL


Edited by boar_d_laze - 7/1/13 at 10:11am
post #7 of 13
Thread Starter 
Hey thanks for the information everyone. Bdl there is no real price range as I'll accumulate them as needed... However I want good stones that last and are easy to sharpen. I would also like to continue using the 1200 grit side of my splash and go stone from Jck... Unless it is obsolete... Again many thanks.
post #8 of 13
Thread Starter 
In all reality I would probably like to keep it below a hundred a stone.
post #9 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by FranzB69 View Post

you'd be pretty ok with the combo stone for a while. i would just add a coarse diamond plate for flattening the stone and a suehiro rika 5k for finishing the edge.

 

=D

I have a Suehiro rika 5k. The problem (if it is one, still new to knife sharpening) is that it loads up really fast with metal from the knife which I find annoying. 

 

For flattening I've tried drywall screen and a granite tile while it works it takes a long time. A diamond plate from CKtG will be alot faster. 

post #10 of 13

Posted by harlock0083 View Post

I have a Suehiro rika 5k. The problem (if it is one, still new to knife sharpening) is that it loads up really fast with metal from the knife which I find annoying. 

 

Synthetic water stones are made by mixing abrasives with a water soluble "binder," forming them into bricks and baking them in a kiln.  When the stone is wetted, the action of the knife on breaks down the surface into a slurry called "mud."  Because the process is continual, water stones always have fresh abrasive in the mud.  It's the mud which does the actual sharpening, not the surface of the stone. 

 

The action of the abrasive on the knife removes some small amount of metal, the loose metal fragments are called "swarf."  

 

So after the first few moments of sharpening, the mud will always contain some swarf.  Swarf discolors mud and makes it look dark.

 

The Rika is a very muddy stone, and it's natural for the mud to appear dark as the stone is used to sharpen.  However, the Rika's mud is a very good thing.  It breaks down as it's used, causing the stone to start as a fast 3K and to finish like a fine 3K.  So, even though swarfy mud is unsightly, you don't want to rinse it off too quickly; but rather to replenish the moisture from time to time by sprinkling it with fresh water.    

 

When I sharpen with muddy stones, I pull the first burr; flip it; rinse the stone and swarfy mud; and use the clean stone to chase and refine the burr.  It adds a little extra time to the process, but getting rid of some of the swarf makes the stone less likely to scratch the knife. 

 

"Loading up" is actually a term of art in sharpening.  It means the stone's "pores" are filled with swarf which can't be dislodged.  In practice, it's not easy to load up a synthetic water stone.   

 

BDL

post #11 of 13

Did you soak the stone enough?

 

I have seen similar on splash and go stones like the Shapton glass stone where the stone gets black and the water stays fairly clean. "Muddy stones the water is clean and the first stroke or 3 the stone gets black then the water fills with particles and turns to "mud".

 

Suehiro has many different stones an I have a  Suehiro 1K/3K combo that, as BDL described, makes a swamp of mud. On the other had I recently got a Suehiro Cerax 8K and it is supposed to act like a splash and go if short soaked and muddy if long soaked.

 

I have only done a short soak and it does behave and feel a lot like the Shapton glass stones and does as you describe.

 

Jim

post #12 of 13

I think the problem is soaking (or lack of soaking). I'll retry the suehiro with 15min soaking and raising mud before using it.

post #13 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmeraldCity View Post

In all reality I would probably like to keep it below a hundred a stone.

Maybe also take a look here; http://stores.ebay.com/BluewayJapan/WHETSTONE-/_i.html?_fsub=20320405&_sid=84335187&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322

 

A King combo 1000/6000 is 43,99$ + shipping

A Rika 5000 is 49,99 + shipping

Economic shipping is 20$!

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