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Using a rational to bake dinner rolls?! I need help

post #1 of 4
Thread Starter 

We recently ditched our double stacking vulcan oven in favor of a rational selfcooking center.  It's a dream for creme brulee, flan and cheesecake.  We are having issues with bread being spot on.  I'm not happy with the pre programed setting for bread. 


We are cooking 2 oz dinner rolls made from a semolina/bread flour mix and dried basil.  216 oz bread flour, 54 oz semolina flour, 3 oz dried basil, 6 oz table salt, 7.5 oz sugar, 4 oz dried instant yeast, 30 fl oz canola/olive oil blend and 128 fl oz water.  This is prepared by the straight dough method, mixed on speed 1 and developed only 4 minutes on speed 2.  We top the rolls with a 2:1 eggwash mixture that is sprayed on.


In the standard convection oven the rolls attained a thin golden crust and were still moist on the inside.  Using the rational self cooking settings the crust was golden but was 1/2" think with only a sliver of moist bread in the center.  We tried cooking the rolls at 240F dry heat, with 1 - 10 second steam burst,  using the temperature probe to cook them to an inner temperature of 204F.  The rolls are soft, tender, perfectly moist and look completely raw. 


Speaking for myself I prefer perfect bread that is ugly over beautiful bread that is disgusting to eat.  Problem is the F&B director only eats things that are pretty?!


What are we doing wrong?  We are not willing to make any large scale changes to the bread recipe as it is considered our signature bread.  This recipe has worked perfectly for us in the standard convection oven for years and the same person has been doing production for 15 months.  The only change is the oven.


Does anyone out there have suggestions as to setting/ time/ temperature changes that will help give us a pretty product that is still edible?

post #2 of 4

Your typical convection oven has either steam vents or is poorly constructed so steam escapes during baking.


Rational ovens are air-tight, they only discharge steam when you tell it to, "default" is always airtight.


If you're using a Rational program, it might have steam incorporated during the whole baking process, or maybe it doesn't, I dunno. The Europeans and Germans in particular take their bread very seriously.  Bread there is usually fermented for at least 12 to a max of 24 hrs before baking.  The longer you ferment the dough, the deeper the reddish-brown colour you get on the crust and the better flavour on the whole. 


So, "first date" with the oven didn't go so well in regards to bread.

-Try fermenting the dough longer for better colour

-Try using manual controls on the oven, and not programs, and watch out for the humidity after the first 10 minutes.




-try "cheating" with a bit of sugar in the eggwash.


Hope this helps

...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
post #3 of 4

Dear Chef,

In the manual setting you used you are using a very low temperature with just 240F. If you want to bake you bread manual I would recommend to use combination and set the temperature between 350F and 370F, you can still use the probe if you want.


If you want to use one of the installed processes, I would recommend that you select the cooking mode "Finishing®" and then select "elc baking a la carte".


If you want more support with your SelfCookingCenter® Whitefficiency®, please feel free to contact our ChefLine® on number 866-306-2433






Fredrik Rasmusson


Corporate Chef RATIONAL USA

post #4 of 4
Thread Starter 
Raising the temperature helped some. Now we are running into differences with the amount of food baking together. If we only have 3 sheets in the combi we get even product. If we up it to five or six the center sheets are still too light.
We didn't purchase the white efficiency line of rational. We have an older 1/2 size model. I haven't found the 'finish' mode you mentioned.
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