Originally Posted by Amused
Would you mind elaborating on your experience with the 52100 Ultimatum in comparison with the Kono HD?
Not at all.
There's really not much of a comparison because they're so different.
The Kono HD is a laser. The first thing to understand about a laser is that it's a laser. You either want a laser or you don't. They all have the same weaknesses, and most of them have the same strengths. While there are differences between the top stainless lasers as compared to one another, they are extremely subtle -- if ever there were a "U Pickem," this is it. And, the same is true about the the same thing about the top carbon lasers. There are minor differences in F&F and appearance, but the different identities of the various stainless alloys doesn't mean anything in the way of performance; and I think all of the carbon lasers are made of the same alloy, White #2. If there's one made of VS2, then same same.
The Kono HD2 (the "2" represents a minor upgrade to the alloy) is slightly apart from other lasers in that its semi-stainless alloys has the same pleasant feeling on the stones as a carbon laser while being nearly as stain resistant as any of the true stainless knives.
It's an extremely light because it's a laser. Because it's so light, it seems fairly well balanced. It gets ridiculously sharp, because it's a laser. The edge seems to stay sharp even as it dulls, because it's a laser. The knife should not be steeled because it's a laser. It doesn't wedge because it's a laser. Food doesn't stick to it because it's a laser.
You need to be careful around bones, partly because it's a laser and partly because that's just how it is with alloys which are stronger than they are tough. It doesn't stain easily because it's HD. It has an extremely sweet feel on the stones, because it's HD.
The profile is excellent, if not quite Sabatier.
Mine is a 270mm HD from the first production run and has a handle most people don't like, but I like very much. I've never heard a complaint about the current handle, which is a well-done ho-wood octagon. You can get all sorts of semi-custom wa handles as extra cost upgrades if you want.
Sharpening note: A well sharpened edge with lot of asymmetry -- say 90/10 -- will make the knife so sharp that it becomes difficult to handle. That is, unless you consciously hold it back it will fall through just about anything it touches. I prefer a more moderate asymmetry for its greater durability, and -- it pains me to admit it -- because I'm not as adaptable as I used to be, my skills are eroding and I don't want a knife I have to think about.
All in all a Kono HD is among the best of the best... if you want a laser.
If you've ever spent time with a carbon Sabatier chef's knife, you have a very good idea of what to expect. The differences are that the Richmond has a wa-handle, weighs 3 ounces less, is balanced much further forward than a Sab, and is made of hugely better alloy.
Same sweet profile. Same lively feel on the board. Same indestructibility. Same versatility. Even more comfortable (although it took me awhile to get there). And there's that alloy.
Takes a great edge, holds it a long time, can be steeled -- but it won't need it much. Fantastic feel on the stones. I've always been a carbon guy, 52100 is the best carbon I've ever used, and because of this knife it has become my favorite alloy. Which would matter a lot more if the differences between one really good alloy and another were significant, but they aren't -- not really.
I use my Ultimatum for everything; and that means things I wouldn't dream of doing with the Kono, like trimming and portioning spareribs; and stupidly includes things I shouldn't do, like splitting the occasional chicken. Bottom line: I've been abusing the knife for a year and haven't hurt it yet.
The right face of the knife is convexed quite a bit. It should help keep food from sticking, but as a lefty it means nothing to me. On the other hand, my chopping action is a glide (which tends to knock stuff off) and I'm pretty conscientious about keeping the knife straight and moving it quickly, so I don't have much of a problem with sticking anyway.
On the down side, the knife is a bit thick (but that's the price you pay for anything that strong), and the blade came with some tool marks which were supposed to have been polished out by Richmond (the knife is made for them OEM by Lamson) but weren't -- although not much of a downside because fit and finish were otherwise very good to excellent. The cosmetics are mediocre.
The OOTB edge was adequate, 15*, minor convexing (probably incidental), 50/50 asymmetry, not much polish. I like my geometry much better, 12* flat bevel, 2:1 lefty, 8K finish. 8K is really too much, but I own the stone, so wotthehell. The ideal finish is probably somewhere in the 3K to 6K range. The asymmetry made a much larger positive difference than I'm used to mild asymmetry making -- which may have something to do with the right-handed asymmetry of the blade's grind, and/or may have been just enough to stop the knife from wedging. Whatever. I don't know why it worked but it did. My advice to a left handed user is "you absolutely must," and to a right handed user, "you should."
It weighs 2 oz more than the Kono gyuto, 3 oz more than my 300mm Kono suji (which I use as a gyuto fairly frequently), and the Ultimatum not only feels quite a bit heavier than either Konosuke, but less neutrally balanced as well.
At the time I got the Ultimatum, I thought that I was beyond balance issues -- but apparently having nothing but Konos and Sabs spoiled me. When I first started using it the knife felt awkward and heavy... with its balance point making it feel as heavy as one of my 10oz Sabs. Between that and the tool marks, I seriously considered sending it bacl. But after using it for a few hours, my grip adjusted a bit forward and I started to like the knife. After establishing my first edge, like turned to love; and although I never made a conscious effort, my grip kept evolving until the knife became an extension of my will; and it just keeps getting better and better.
Would I trade it for the Kono or vice versa? It's not a decision I have to make, and am ecstatic not making it. If you're asking me which would I recommend to someone buying one gyuto, the recommendation would be made on the basis of which class of knife -- laser, robust, or something in between -- would best suit. One size does not fit all. And in many cases, one size doesn't even fit one.