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Sakai Takayuki dissapointment.... - Page 2

post #31 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post

That's abuse, plain and simple.  It looks like edge abuse, but no matter what you can't leave a kitchen knife soaking for two days and not have issues.  I don't like the term "stainless"; it's a misnomer.  There are metals/steels that won't rust no matter what but they're not used in kitchen knives.

 

Still, that knife can be salvaged.  You're gonna lose a couple mm of edge but none of the damage is up into the cladding.  There's till plenty of the hagane left to grind out the chips/rust and sharpen the knife.

Give it up already. IMHO, the thread starter "Kitchen Pig" threw in the towel. He read our comments, dealt with the dealer, didn't like chasing the dealer around the Mulberry Bush for a refund, (I'm paraphrasing) and said screw it. Kitchen Pig already stated that he will not purchase another knife from the dealer, "Paul" Now if it was me! I wouldn't waste my time trying to bring that Dud knife back to life and just toss it, but that's me. biggrin.gif

post #32 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by pahi53 View Post

Give it up already. IMHO, the thread starter "Kitchen Pig" threw in the towel. He read our comments, dealt with the dealer, didn't like chasing the dealer around the Mulberry Bush for a refund, (I'm paraphrasing) and said screw it. Kitchen Pig already stated that he will not purchase another knife from the dealer, "Paul" Now if it was me! I wouldn't waste my time trying to bring that Dud knife back to life and just toss it, but that's me. biggrin.gif

If it can be saved I would put the effort in, especially since the user caused the damage.

But it's easier to point blame elsewhere and give up than take responsibility for ones own actions.

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.
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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.
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post #33 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Jim View Post

If it can be saved I would put the effort in, especially since the user caused the damage.

But it's easier to point blame elsewhere and give up than take responsibility for ones own actions.

Apparently "Kitchen Pig" chose not to waste his time bringing the DUD! knife back to life. What a Wonderful Country we live in. We can point  blame without physical repercussions, just verbal. Money talks, BS walks. "Paul" is the loser, he lost a good customer.

post #34 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by pahi53 View Post

 What a Wonderful Country we live in. We can point  blame without physical repercussions, just verbal.

As I see.

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.
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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.
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post #35 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by pahi53 View Post

Apparently "Kitchen Pig" chose not to waste his time bringing the DUD! knife back to life. What a Wonderful Country we live in. We can point  blame without physical repercussions, just verbal. Money talks, BS walks. "Paul" is the loser, he lost a good customer.


So do you ignore the instructions on your car about oil changes also and then when the engine  seizes complain it is a POS?

 

Butter knives and other tableware maybe could endure 2 days in water but no good cutting knife would.

 

He can believe what he wants but the collective knife wisdom on this board knows better.

 

If I run across a ruined Shun or similar I'm gonna toss it water for 2 days.

 

Jim

post #36 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnifeSavers View Post


So do you ignore the instructions on your car about oil changes also and then when the engine  seizes complain it is a POS?

 

Butter knives and other tableware maybe could endure 2 days in water but no good cutting knife would.

 

He can believe what he wants but the collective knife wisdom on this board knows better.

 

If I run across a ruined Shun or similar I'm gonna toss it water for 2 days.

 

Jim

Ho-Hum!!!

post #37 of 52
Quote:
"Paul" is the loser, he lost a good customer.

Good Customer; Are you sure about that?  I think Paul or any other business for that matter is better off without customers like that.

post #38 of 52
Thread Starter 
Lol, you guys really rock! At least some of you tongue.gif

1. I don't own a dishwasher. none of my knives seen a dishwasher, ever.
2. I only use them on soft stuff. Beef(no bone since I don't have time for it), veggies, and that's about it. No frozen stuff etc.
3. Been away for a week plus with my 4yr old, rving. Knives are on the magnetic holder;) hence, no reply to topics.
4. None of my knives have chips. These were not caused by chips.

I'm not blaming Paul by any means. Maybe I caused this. but as i said in one of the first posts, thats why i got these knives and not Moritaka or Takeda Gyuto, which as i said one of them got returrned to Paul after looking at it for two days, admiring it. Wanted to go a safer route, and i thought I went.
Money is no problem here, as I said earlier I'm just dissapointed.

BTW, exactlythe same knife when it arrived innitiay from Paul was not sharpened on one siide. I sent it back and got a new one or same, don't know.
post #39 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by KitchenPig View Post

Lol, you guys really rock! At least some of you tongue.gif

1. I don't own a dishwasher. none of my knives seen a dishwasher, ever.
2. I only use them on soft stuff. Beef(no bone since I don't have time for it), veggies, and that's about it. No frozen stuff etc.
3. Been away for a week plus with my 4yr old, rving. Knives are on the magnetic holder;) hence, no reply to topics.
4. None of my knives have chips. These were not caused by chips.

I'm not blaming Paul by any means. Maybe I caused this. but as i said in one of the first posts, thats why i got these knives and not Moritaka or Takeda Gyuto, which as i said one of them got returrned to Paul after looking at it for two days, admiring it. Wanted to go a safer route, and i thought I went.
Money is no problem here, as I said earlier I'm just dissapointed.

BTW, exactlythe same knife when it arrived innitiay from Paul was not sharpened on one siide. I sent it back and got a new one or same, don't know.

Aloha KP, I thought you rode off into the Sunset. Literally speaking I guess you did with your 4 year old. Welcome back. LOL:bounce:

post #40 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by mostadonte2 View Post
 

Good Customer; Are you sure about that?  I think Paul or any other business for that matter is better off without customers like that.

Yawnnnn!

post #41 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by KitchenPig View Post
Maybe I caused this. but as i said in one of the first posts, thats why i got these knives and not Moritaka or Takeda Gyuto, which as i said one of them got returrned to Paul after looking at it for two days, admiring it. Wanted to go a safer route, and i thought I went.
Money is no problem here, as I said earlier I'm just dissapointed.

 

Other than the rust damage the knife looks good for a 3 year old blade so you took good care of it until committing a cardinal sin and causing the damage.

 

At this point I'd suggest sending it to Jon at Japanese Knife Imports to get the best fix possible.

 

Jim

post #42 of 52

Time to terminate this thread.  All that could be stated has been stated.  Moving on...

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply
post #43 of 52

Mebbe not quite so fast, Kokopuffs.  One more bit of info might be useful.

 

The pictures show visible pit corrosion.  There might also be crevice corrosion (where the corrosion is entirely inside the core layer of the blade and not visible on the outside of the core layer),

 

This Friday, I may get a chance to talk with a person who has professionally dealt with metal component failure in a galvanically hostile environment - Master Rigger Brion Toss.  I will be at the Port Townsend Wooden Boat Festival, and, if I get the chance, I will ask Brion about crevice corrosion frequency when there is visible pit corrosion, and the degree that crevice corrosion can spread.  This may not directly be about knives, or san-mai cladding, but Brion has dealt for decades with failed stainless steel boat fittings and knows quite a bit from first hand personal handling of stainless steel part failure patterns.

 

The importance of this is that there may be microscopic internal corrosion damage in the blade's core layer.  That damage might be seen later in subsequent mechanically-induced chipping, rather than the corrosion pitting we saw.  

 

Depending on when I return from Port Townsend, I'll let you know if I got to talk with Brion and what he says late Friday or on Saturday.

 

 

Galley Swiller

post #44 of 52

Just to be clear- I'm not bagging on Kitchen Pig or saying s/he is a bad person. I'm just saying you shouldn't leave a knife, any knife, in water for two days.  Unless it's designed for salt water or scuba diving that's abuse.  I'm not an expert on steel but I know steel has iron in it, and iron will oxidize (especially in water).  Still, I think that knife can be fixed.  I've seen worse.

"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
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"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
Reply
post #45 of 52

I agree Phaedrus.  Leaving a knife in water for two days was the cause and something which should never be done.  And I sure don't want to dump on the OP - heck, personally I'm sure I've sure done a lot worse things.  And this is sure not the end of the world or even human civilization as we know it.

 

But this thread and its timing has opened up (at least to me) an opportunity to delve into a question of steel and corrosion damage - which I think can be of benefit to the forum. The new issue (at least as I would like to look into it) is...

 

To what extent can stainless steel suffer HIDDEN damage from corrosion?  And too what extent can that damage result in increased future risk of catastrophic edge damage (i.e., chipping)?

 

Going in to talk with Brion tomorrow means picking the brains of someone who has decades of direct first hand knowledge and hands-on real world experience with precisely the issues we are not experienced with - namely, salt water corrosion failure of stainless steel.

 

The world Brion lives in involves what can literally result in life-or-death situations.  If you're in the middle of an ocean voyage and a critical component fails, you can end up with the boat sinking underneath you.  That's definitely a "not good" situation and the type of personal risk that someone in a landside kitchen probably won't ever face.  

 

What Brion has seen and talked about is how hidden corrosion can result in catastrophic component failure - the type of failure where the component literally breaks in two, with almost no advance warning to the untrained eye.  And with the prevalence in modern use of stainless steels in rigging, that's where Brion's experience might help us understand what happens in our stainless steel knives.

 

I'm hoping to have a dialogue with Brion on this.  I think that it would be a valuable subject to follow.

 

However, I also realize that this is likely to be a "thread hijack" moment.  So, when I come back, I'll do it in a new thread, with a title probably something like "Delving into Stainless Corrosion", or something like that.  And with a subject that broad, I'm now suspecting it will take longer than a few hours or an extra day to report on.  So, it might be a few days or even a few weeks before I can get back to the forum with what I find.

 

 

Galley Swiller

post #46 of 52

This is an update to yesterday's post and, unless someone else brings up something, probably the point where this thread is put to rest.

 

Master Rigger Brion Toss was not at the Port Townsend Wooden Boat Festival today, since he is out of town on business.  So, I obviously didn't have the chance to talk with him.

 

That means that my potential Unified Field Theory of Knife Corrosion is potentially stillborn, or at least in hibernation for the foreseeable future, if not for eternity.

 

Ah, well.  Such is life.  "The Best Laid Plans....."

 

 

Galley Swiller

post #47 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galley Swiller View Post
 

This is an update to yesterday's post and, unless someone else brings up something, probably the point where this thread is put to rest.

 

Master Rigger Brion Toss was not at the Port Townsend Wooden Boat Festival today, since he is out of town on business.  So, I obviously didn't have the chance to talk with him.

 

That means that my potential Unified Field Theory of Knife Corrosion is potentially stillborn, or at least in hibernation for the foreseeable future, if not for eternity.

 

Ah, well.  Such is life.  "The Best Laid Plans....."

 

 

Galley Swiller

 

Aloha to this Thread????

:bounce:

post #48 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galley Swiller View Post
 

This is an update to yesterday's post and, unless someone else brings up something, probably the point where this thread is put to rest.

 

Master Rigger Brion Toss was not at the Port Townsend Wooden Boat Festival today, since he is out of town on business.  So, I obviously didn't have the chance to talk with him.

 

That means that my potential Unified Field Theory of Knife Corrosion is potentially stillborn, or at least in hibernation for the foreseeable future, if not for eternity.

 

Ah, well.  Such is life.  "The Best Laid Plans....."

 

 

Galley Swiller

 

Its okay, its just rust anyway. 

post #49 of 52
Thread Starter 
KnifeSavers: how much a service like that would cost? That knife was 130$, I think at this point I will get an another one smile.gif just to have a full collection again without any missing:)
That was my favourite out of all, even though as somebody noticed here I barely used them.
post #50 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by KitchenPig View Post

KnifeSavers: how much a service like that would cost? That knife was 130$, I think at this point I will get an another one smile.gif just to have a full collection again without any missing:)
That was my favourite out of all, even though as somebody noticed here I barely used them.

 

After all that was said on this thread, and a lot of finger pointing at you for being careless and the BS from "Paul" will you be purchasing the Knife from Paul?

For $130, leaving the knife in a pot of fresh water and the damage that was done, some of the naysayers said was caused by the water (I don't believe that) I still maintain you bought a Dud! (euphemism for Crappy) knife. Good luck with the new one.

post #51 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by KitchenPig View Post

KnifeSavers: how much a service like that would cost? That knife was 130$, I think at this point I will get an another one smile.gif just to have a full collection again without any missing:)
That was my favourite out of all, even though as somebody noticed here I barely used them.

 

I would have you send that to Jon at Japanese Knife Imports as he specializes in J knives and get it fixed by him. He has special gear and goes to Japan to work with the knife makers.

 

http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/about-knife-sharpening

 

He has many tricks up his sleeve to do major repairs on J knives.

 

Jim

post #52 of 52

It won't be as good as new but it's certainly fixable.  If no one else will work on it shoot me a PM.

"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
Reply
"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
Reply
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