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Tech Talk: Fingerprint device unlocking

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 

It'm a  tech lover. I enjoy my phone and tablet in the kitchen.

 

Staying out of the iOS/Android war, there is a popular device on the market now that unlocks with a fingerprint scan.

 

For me, the skin on my fingers peel every 3-5 weeks so I know it would be an annoyance to me to use fingerprint recognition.  But for busy cooks who burn and cut their fingers now and then, how would fingerprint recognition work for you? 

 

 

Chime in below.

Palace of the Brine -- "I hear the droning in the shrine of the sea monkeys." Saltair
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Palace of the Brine -- "I hear the droning in the shrine of the sea monkeys." Saltair
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post #2 of 19

I believe the device can use any finger or thumb, and from what I read can store up to 5 or 6 individual prints. I'm not sure how the sapphire crystal scanning technology works, but I would think it would be able to handle minor disruptions in the print.

 

I recently acquired a swipe style fingerprint scanner to use as a biometric authentication device in software I am writing, so it's an interesting topic to me!

post #3 of 19
Thread Starter 

hmm, says it can hold 5.  http://www.macworld.com/article/2049062/hands-on-first-impressions-of-the-iphone-5s.html  That's a help and a good idea. 

 

I suppose it's something you'd want to disable too if you were in a gloved environment. 

Palace of the Brine -- "I hear the droning in the shrine of the sea monkeys." Saltair
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Palace of the Brine -- "I hear the droning in the shrine of the sea monkeys." Saltair
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post #4 of 19

don't think the peeling / etc will affect it.  mobsters having been trying to change their prints with everything from acid to blow torches with little success since the 20's

 

a blister, yes - temporarily

a scar, yes.....

 

((worked at a place that used the full hand scan for secure access to specific areas - it read palm and fingertips.  they told me if I sliced up a finger and had a scar, it would affect the scan.  they made a big deal over it - which I didn't quite understand their focus because if I sliced up a finger that bad, it'd likely be bandaged / etc for some time and thus providing rather sufficient time to discuss the issue . . . ))

 

bought a laptop in 2006/7? that had the finger swipe; as does it's replacement - never used them.....

 

========edit to add===========

oh, don't enable it until you ask / know how to bypass it should it not 'recognize' you . . .

once upon a time I was directed by my paycheck provider I must encrypt my hard drive.

things did not go well.....

post #5 of 19
Thread Starter 

When I peel, I don't have a print until the skin finishes coming back.

Palace of the Brine -- "I hear the droning in the shrine of the sea monkeys." Saltair
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Palace of the Brine -- "I hear the droning in the shrine of the sea monkeys." Saltair
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post #6 of 19

I have "problems" with 'puters and technology,  but with this type of technology, I wold jump at it.

 

Why?

 

1) I am an employer

and

2) I live in B.C. Canada, where, according to the labour board and the Worker's comp. board, "The onus is on the employer"

 

What this means, basically, is that the employer is assumed guilty of anything until s/he prooves innocence, at their own cost, and with no chance of compensation or even an acknowledgement that the accusation was false.

 

And what THAT means is, that time clocks don't count when an employee files a comlaint that they were cheated out of wages.

 

What some of the mega hotels and casinos have done is to install fingerprint activated time clocks.  No more "Punchclock buddies".  The Unions fought hard against the new time clocks, but for once the employers got a break.  Fingerprint activated timeclocks are admisable evidence. 

...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
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...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
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post #7 of 19

>>When I peel, I don't have a print until the skin finishes coming back.

 

perhaps to the eyeball, but not sure the 'detection' device sees it exactly so.....

post #8 of 19

My HP lap top let me provide up to 10 finger prints for security using every finger if yours does too you are good?/

post #9 of 19

First of all, my work has a "time clock" thing where employees touch a pad and their print is recognized when they enter and exit.  I registered my 6 prints three fingers on each hand, and i did it three times at the office, and when i go to the machine it can't read them. I have no fingerprints that are useful for this level of recognition.

 

BUT FAR MORE IMPORTANT, the fingerprint is the LEAST  safe way of identifying a person.  Ok for your computer, if you aren't likely to be the target of identity theft, if you have little money to steal or few important secrets to be uncovered.  But note that it is a VERY SIMPLE matter, to take any random fingerprint from a glass or anything you touch (the outside of the computer itself), make a copy, and make a silicone cast of it that can be used on one of those fingerprint pads. 

 

But unlike with the pin number of your credit card or atm card, if someone does manage to copy it, you can't go change your fingerprint the way you can change your pin number. 

 

I have never tried to make such a copy myself, but i have it from someone who does this sort of casting for product design, and it is apparently not a complicated thing to do.  So fine if you want to keep your kids out of your computer, or your coworkers so they don;t read your email, but be wary of relying on it when real security is necessary.

"Siduri said, 'Gilgamesh, where are you roaming? You will never find the eternal life that you seek...Savour your food, make each of your days a delight, ... let music and dancing fill your house, love the child who holds you by the hand and give your wife pleasure in your embrace.'"
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"Siduri said, 'Gilgamesh, where are you roaming? You will never find the eternal life that you seek...Savour your food, make each of your days a delight, ... let music and dancing fill your house, love the child who holds you by the hand and give your wife pleasure in your embrace.'"
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post #10 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by siduri View Post
 

First of all, my work has a "time clock" thing where employees touch a pad and their print is recognized when they enter and exit.  I registered my 6 prints three fingers on each hand, and i did it three times at the office, and when i go to the machine it can't read them. I have no fingerprints that are useful for this level of recognition.

 

BUT FAR MORE IMPORTANT, the fingerprint is the LEAST  safe way of identifying a person.  Ok for your computer, if you aren't likely to be the target of identity theft, if you have little money to steal or few important secrets to be uncovered.  But note that it is a VERY SIMPLE matter, to take any random fingerprint from a glass or anything you touch (the outside of the computer itself), make a copy, and make a silicone cast of it that can be used on one of those fingerprint pads. 

 

But unlike with the pin number of your credit card or atm card, if someone does manage to copy it, you can't go change your fingerprint the way you can change your pin number. 

 

I have never tried to make such a copy myself, but i have it from someone who does this sort of casting for product design, and it is apparently not a complicated thing to do.  So fine if you want to keep your kids out of your computer, or your coworkers so they don;t read your email, but be wary of relying on it when real security is necessary.

 

Very astute, siduri. 

 
I also have a problem with digitizing my fingerprint. It's a copy. That can be copied remotely, so you don't have to lift a print from a glass.
 
I know it sounds paranoid, but when there are cracks in (personal) security, someone will always abuse them for gain or fun.
post #11 of 19
Thread Starter 

In the particular case I'm thinking, it's using capacitance across the dead low-conducting top layer of skin with the higher-conducting inner layer. It reads a capacitance "picture", which it stores only as a hash. This is one reason I think it's more susceptible to injuries on the finger, but it may be more resistant to forgery than the image scanner variety.

 

Though now there's a bounty on hacking it.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/22/tech/mobile/iphone-5s-hack-bounty/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Palace of the Brine -- "I hear the droning in the shrine of the sea monkeys." Saltair
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Palace of the Brine -- "I hear the droning in the shrine of the sea monkeys." Saltair
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post #12 of 19

Nice way for the NSA to compile fingerprints on everyone using an Iphone 5...

post #13 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryB View Post
 

Nice way for the NSA to compile fingerprints on everyone using an Iphone 5...

 

No need at least in my state, we were all finger printed, all 10 fingers and our palm prints as part of a "keep our kids safe" program.. claiming it would help identify us if we were ever kidnapped back in about 1983. Every kid in the school, I assume this was done throughout the state. Later I was fingerprinted again, all 10 and palms but that was at least for work. Guess if I ever want to be nefarious I better be sure to wear gloves!

post #14 of 19

"NEW YORK, N.Y. - Sen. Al Franken is concerned about Apple's use of fingerprint recognition technology in its new iPhone 5S.

The iPhone 5S, which went on sale Friday, includes a fingerprint sensor that lets users tap the phone's home button to unlock their phone, rather than enter a passcode.

But Franken says that while a password can be kept a secret and changed if it's hacked, fingerprints are permanent and are left on everything a person touches. In a letter to Apple CEO Tim Cook, the Minnesota Democrat asks for more clarity on security questions.

Apple Inc. says this kind of technology boosts security for users. It adds that the fingerprint data is stored on the phone in a place that's inaccessible to other apps and to Apple's remote servers."

 

Who does Apple think they are kidding ?

 

Great products but with everything, the word security has long lost its meaning and  in this tecky driven world, especially when pc hackers are getting younger and younger , they think this new sucurity is nothing but a challenge and maybe even a joke.

Petals
Réalisé avec un soupçon d'amour.

Served Up
(165 photos)
Wine and Cheese
(62 photos)
 
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Petals
Réalisé avec un soupçon d'amour.

Served Up
(165 photos)
Wine and Cheese
(62 photos)
 
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post #15 of 19

Apparently the particular technology used in the new iphone has already been circumvented although it is not exactly trivial to do and I would still consider the fingerprint lock on the phone adequate in comparison to other locking mechanisms.

post #16 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryB View Post
 

Nice way for the NSA to compile fingerprints on everyone using an Iphone 5...

And this is another consideration

"Siduri said, 'Gilgamesh, where are you roaming? You will never find the eternal life that you seek...Savour your food, make each of your days a delight, ... let music and dancing fill your house, love the child who holds you by the hand and give your wife pleasure in your embrace.'"
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"Siduri said, 'Gilgamesh, where are you roaming? You will never find the eternal life that you seek...Savour your food, make each of your days a delight, ... let music and dancing fill your house, love the child who holds you by the hand and give your wife pleasure in your embrace.'"
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post #17 of 19
Thread Starter 

But what about in the pro/home kitchen? 

Palace of the Brine -- "I hear the droning in the shrine of the sea monkeys." Saltair
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Palace of the Brine -- "I hear the droning in the shrine of the sea monkeys." Saltair
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post #18 of 19

>>bounty on hacking . . .
there's no bounty on finding a way to cut off somebody's finger and dupe the print.

 

the bounty is finding a way to defeat the interlock without a finger.  and, if recent news is correct, the bounty has been claimed.

what "it" sees and what a "human eyeball" sees are two very different things.

 

>>we were all finger printed, all 10 fingers and our palm prints as part of a "keep our kids safe" program..
putting on the tin foil hat....all those records remain with the parents or the local law enforcement (unlikely)
kid's fingerprints from grade school are quite likely not in the FBI/SecretService/Russian/ Israeli /al-Qaida/Chinese/Korean databases.

 

the ACLU would go flipping bonkers.

 

>>the pro/home kitchen

when the NSA gets into my kitchen I'll simply fry them up and serve with a nice black sauce.

post #19 of 19
Thread Starter 

I'm planning to upgrade my phone in a month (ish).

 

I can actually get the display to open up with just a hand wave above the surface (depending on my settings of course). Not something I want all the time, but I'll probably toggle it on when I'm going to use it in the kitchen.  Probably set it up to toggle with an NFC tag I can stick inside a cabinet or such.  

 

Then it doesn't matter how messy my hands are.

Palace of the Brine -- "I hear the droning in the shrine of the sea monkeys." Saltair
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Palace of the Brine -- "I hear the droning in the shrine of the sea monkeys." Saltair
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