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Help to pick my gyutoh

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 

Hello ladies & gentlemen,

I need your help to pick a new knife to work full-time in a western-style restaurant.

I've checked posts on this and other websites, for recomended models, reviews, specs.

Please, consider my needs when you pick: 10' gyuto, big hands, STRONG rocking motion.

Here's my list I need to shrink down to 1 knife, according to your recomendations:

 

Richmond Artifex xtra tall (AEB-L)

Togiharu (Molybdenum)

Hiromoto Gingami no.3 (Hitachi Gingami3 Stainless steel)

Fujiwara FKM (Molybdenum Vanadium Stainless Steel

Suisin Inox (Swedish Inox / AUS 8-A Steel)

Mac Chef Series (Molybdenum)

Misono (Molybdenum Stain Resistant Steel)

 

Thanks for your help :)

Ste


Edited by SteBell - 10/24/13 at 2:51am
post #2 of 18
I would stay away from Lamson's grinding, so no Richmond. From the others the Gingami-3 is probably the best steel, and the Hiromoto is not too flat. Do you consider a 240 or 270mm?
Edited by Benuser - 10/24/13 at 3:38am
post #3 of 18
Thread Starter 

Hiromoto Tenmi-Jyuraku Gingami no3 Gyuto 240mm

This guy:

www.japanesechefsknife.com/Page4.html#GingamiNo.3

post #4 of 18

All of them are solid knives but you mentioned big hands.....Hiromoto handles (G, AS, and the rare full carbons) have always seemed small to me.  Not a problem on my end as I have smallish hands but it's been noted by many.  I like Mac knives but lean more towards the "pro" line as I think the handles, fit & finish, geometry, are way superior.....

 

Tojiro DP is also another good value.  I had one for a long time and even after getting higher-end knives, I routinely surprised my cooks and stages who needed a sharp knife by giving them that.....no frills, workhorse-esque...bigger handle - solid performer.

 

If you don't have one already, grab a ceramic steel (Idahone 12" is my choice) and you'll start heading down the rabbit hole of knives.

post #5 of 18
Thread Starter 

Hey, thanks for the replies.

Benuser, why avoid Richmond Artifex?

NotSwedishChef, thanks for the tip on the Hiromoto handles. I've tried tojo dp and flash: the profiles're unfortunately too flat. I'm looking for a rocker. The idahone 12 is already on my list :)

post #6 of 18
I can't think of any reasons not to get the Artifex. Yes, you may just like something better, but I know no real con points to the Richmond.
post #7 of 18
If you're prepared to regrind it, nothing wrong indeed.

Artifex_Before1.jpg
post #8 of 18

I just picked up the Richmond Artifex Wa-Gyuto 240 and it's pretty nice.

 

It's quite light, definitely blade heavy but it has nice balance. It looks super long for a 240mm but it's a breeze to use and doesn't feel unwieldy at all.

 

Not nearly as sharp OOTB as I had hoped though, my Tojiro DP was sharper when it was new OOTB. I just ordered a King combo stone, so once I get the hang of sharpening on my crap block set knives I'll take this to the stones and see how sharp I can get it. It's certainly not dull, but I had hoped for sharper OOTB cause I don't want to risk messing this up until I have some experience under my belt sharpening.

 

This Artifex has a blade made by Fujiwara though, it's the exact same blade from their FKM series, so it's not the AEB steel on the other Artifex.

 

If you are going to sharpen yourself I'd recommend it for the price though, all the above said I'm certain it will get very sharp on stones from past readings on the FKM series along with using a friends who sharpened himself which was a very sharp knife. At the current $85 it's a really nice buy.

post #9 of 18
OK. For a "knife hobbyist" that likes to buy knives and sharpen all the time then sure, maybe regrind since that's what you like to do. However for someone that buys a knife to use for just cutting and cooking, no, it's just fine.
post #10 of 18

Uh, except for the fact that the Artifex doesn't CUT very well? I bought one about a year ago, and it has been consistently the worst cutter of any of my knives (and that would be at least seven knives of various types that are less expensive, and only two more expensive than the Artifex). I've thinned it a bit, but it is still an ax, and IMHO, it both more difficult to sharpen AND has poorer edge retention than other knives I've got. The Artifex might be an upgrade over a typical German knife, but without some kind of professional attention (i.e. actually completing the process of making the knife), it sucks compared to what else you can get. I really tried to like the Artifex. It does have a nice profile. But "possibly better than your average German knife" is about all I can say about it, which isn't saying much...

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceMan View Post

OK. For a "knife hobbyist" that likes to buy knives and sharpen all the time then sure, maybe regrind since that's what you like to do. However for someone that buys a knife to use for just cutting and cooking, no, it's just fine.
post #11 of 18
Hey whatever. I'm just a poor dumb professional chef that owns/uses Chicago Cutlery and Victorinox Forshner knives. WTFDIK?!? Right? I'll stick with my opinion that for $90 is a nice knife. And to show that I'm not a "Richmond Shill" ... I don't like the handle. I prefer Japanese handles.
post #12 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Kinogie View Post
 

I just picked up the Richmond Artifex Wa-Gyuto 240 and it's pretty nice.

 

It's quite light, definitely blade heavy but it has nice balance. It looks super long for a 240mm but it's a breeze to use and doesn't feel unwieldy at all.

 

Not nearly as sharp OOTB as I had hoped though, my Tojiro DP was sharper when it was new OOTB. I just ordered a King combo stone, so once I get the hang of sharpening on my crap block set knives I'll take this to the stones and see how sharp I can get it. It's certainly not dull, but I had hoped for sharper OOTB cause I don't want to risk messing this up until I have some experience under my belt sharpening.

 

This Artifex has a blade made by Fujiwara though, it's the exact same blade from their FKM series, so it's not the AEB steel on the other Artifex.

 

If you are going to sharpen yourself I'd recommend it for the price though, all the above said I'm certain it will get very sharp on stones from past readings on the FKM series along with using a friends who sharpened himself which was a very sharp knife. At the current $85 it's a really nice buy.

Artifex blades may be made by Fujiwara, but when I see the picture that Benuser posted, I would think again before buying that! I had to thin a (white steel) knife once before, and my advice is; never ever again! Fujiwaras come nicely thin and sharp OOTB, ready for use. I have the impression that those Artifex knives need a lo...oooooot of work first!

But, good luck to you, after all it's quite an experience thinning a knife, believe me!

 

 

 Left picture; fresh ootb white steel Naozumi. Mid and right picture; many, many days and hours of work later...

post #13 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisBelgium View Post
 

Artifex blades may be made by Fujiwara, but when I see the picture that Benuser posted, I would think again before buying that! I had to thin a (white steel) knife once before, and my advice is; never ever again! Fujiwaras come nicely thin and sharp OOTB, ready for use. I have the impression that those Artifex knives need a lo...oooooot of work first!

But, good luck to you, after all it's quite an experience thinning a knife, believe me!

 

 

 Left picture; fresh ootb white steel Naozumi. Mid and right picture; many, many days and hours of work later...

 

AFAIK the picture Ben posted was a standard AEB-L Artifex. The blade is made by Lamson.

 

The one I bought is the new model, it's got a Wa handle and Fujiwara makes the blades, they are the same steel/blades they put in their FKM line.

 

The two different Artifex have two different steels made by two different manufacturers.

post #14 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Kinogie View Post
 

 

AFAIK the picture Ben posted was a standard AEB-L Artifex. The blade is made by Lamson.

 

The one I bought is the new model, it's got a Wa handle and Fujiwara makes the blades, they are the same steel/blades they put in their FKM line.

 

The two different Artifex have two different steels made by two different manufacturers.


I should clarify as well that the experience I've had with an Artifex is with the yo-handled 240mm version in AEB-L.

post #15 of 18

 

I'm sure you know a lot. What do you favor on the less expensive end of things with a wa handle? I'm beginning to prefer wa handles, too.

post #16 of 18
Thread Starter 

Alright, my list is now down to just 4:

 

fujiwara fkm (Molybdenum Vanadium Stainless  Steel)
kagayaki es (V-Gold No.1 stainless steel)
misono moly (High carb13 Chrome Stainless Moly Steel)
hiromoto G3 (Hitachi Gingami No.3 Stainless steel)

 

Which one is the best for rocking motion? Can anybody help me?

thanks

post #17 of 18

if you want a rocking motion knife get one that isn't as flat. 

 

get a kasumi or a shun. those are rocking knives.

post #18 of 18
Of those, at least the Misono and Hiromoto aren't too flat for chopping, unless the OP favours a heavy hand pumping motion. In that case no Japanese edge will survive anyway.
Edited by Benuser - 10/29/13 at 7:03am
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