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"What?" "My dough is not good enough?"

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 

"Pastry Chefs."  When I make puff pastry, I use a recipe that is just great out of the oven.  Flaky and full of flavor; but when the dough has time to settle; The next day.  My dough is much more dense.  Now, I understand that nothing is as good as fresh from the oven, but what happened to the flake?   Where did my flake goooooooo? 

post #2 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by heymroscar View Post
 

...puff pastry, I use a recipe that is just great out of the oven.  Flaky and full of flavor;...

And your  recipe is??

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply
post #3 of 20

Possibly underbaking, and the residual moisture is taking your flake awya.  But hte real solution is to not let the patry last until the next day.  :D

post #4 of 20
Thread Starter 

I use all butter.  Would mixing butter with lard make a difference in texture or just flavor?  Thanks.

post #5 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by heymroscar View Post
 

I use all butter.  Would mixing butter with lard make a difference in texture or just flavor?  Thanks.


Traditional puff pastry is made with butter.

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply
post #6 of 20

I once had some leftover pastries and really didn't want to toss them.

Sooooo I preheated my oven as high as it would go (525 degrees?) placed the rolls on a sheetpan and shoved in the oven.

Checked after a few minutes and MOST of them re-puffed.

Try it.

Nothing to lose...right?

 

mimi

post #7 of 20
Thread Starter 

 I'll give that a try FFG, but I want to ask you about mixing in lard with butter 50/50 or 75/25 butter heavy.  What does the lard bring to the party?

Also, is I prep at least the initial blending of the mock pastry flour with water in an FP until it forms into a ball.  Is this a mistake?  Thanks. Oscar.

post #8 of 20

mroscar.... I am hesitant to join a thread that might, at any moment, explode :eek:  into flames... so found this Wiki and linked it instead.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastry

There are (at least) two different camps in the pastry world.

Traditional and what your gma taught you.

I more or less move between the two depending on what I have at hand vs how badly I don't want to get dressed and go to the store.

IMO if you have great technique the fat is not all that important...most of the time (pleasepleaseplease I can feel it getting hot in here...I didn't really mean it....IMO IMO IMO!)

 

mimi

 

About the food processor...I tried to do some short crust once and (to me) it was tough.

Probably all in my head (very lonely place there, my noggin) as everyone else thought it delish.

We are all our own worst critics and if not for initial down payments (and contracts) would never get any orders delivered, lol.

 

m.

post #9 of 20

I understand your trepidation, Mimi, but I would stop worrying if I were you.  :)

 

Perhaps this wiki would be usefull also:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puff_pastry

 

I'm still waiting for the OP to address the question posed earlier - recipe and technique used.  So far there isn't much given and I'm not even sure the OP really means puff pastry versus another pastry type.

 

If, indeed, it is puff... then I would venture a guess that it is technique (both making the puff and baking) that is the issue.

 

Another good and reliable source of recipe and technique: http://www.joepastry.com/category/pastry-components/puff-pastry/

 

But, honestly, maybe blitz puff is the better option (a very reliable source, but just one of many descriptions to be found on the internet):  http://www.finecooking.com/articles/how-to/rough-puff-pastry.aspx

post #10 of 20

I discovered "pastry joe" last week and find it to be an interesting read.

Stumbled across this site a few years back......http://www.preparedpantry.com/

Downloaded, printed  and stuck in a binder.

Just now checked it out for the link and find it to be way more commercial than 5 years ago.

Guess they need to fund the "bug out" location for THE END lolol.

 

mimi

post #11 of 20
Thread Starter 

Thanks flipflopgirl.   Your post made me laugh soooo much.  Great way to start the morning.  Thanks for the advice. I will keep working the problem until the solution resolves itself.  Oscar.

post #12 of 20
Thread Starter 

Hi Brian Shaw.  The recipe I use is 21/2 cups flour, 11/4 cups cake flour, salt, 16 oz of butter, 11/4 cups water, to simulate pastry flour.  What do you think?  Oscar.

post #13 of 20

Well, the proportions are close to what I know.  there may not be any real value in simulating pastry flour since AP will work fine.  And commerical folks may use shortning instead of butter.  And a lot of folks use cream instead of water, but can't imagine that there is much of a difference.

 

And then what... how did you build your puff pastry?  And what were ou making?  And how did you bake?  And how did you store your baked goods overnight?

 

The more details you provide the better advise you will get.  Tell it all!

post #14 of 20
Thread Starter 

I threw unbleached AP and cake flour into an FP and added water in, all at once, until mixture formed into a ball.  About 5 seconds.  Took it out, lightly floured and formed the ball then cut through the dough lengthwise to form a cross.  Let it sit in the fridge for 1/2 hour in a moist cloth.  Back to the dough. Rolled out the sides of the dough, leaving a square in the middle to hold the butter.  Folded over each of the four sides to wrap the butter completely.  Then while everything is still cold, began pleating the mixture and lengthening it with a rolling pin.  After I've got the right length, I book the dough once and re-introduce the cold cloth and the fridge again to sit for another 1/2 to 1 hour depending on how warm my kitchen is that day.  I do this three to four times. Done. 

 

If I'm using it the next day, I simply wrap it in parchment, roll it and seal it with wrap in the fridge. If it's for later use, I do the same, but put in freezer bags and freeze up to 6 months.  I bake at 375 F.  What's inside?  "Oh my."  Anywhere from sweet to savory.  Lemon curd and flavored cream cheeses to meat pies.  What is in the meat is always different.  I think my biggest problem is keeping everything cold.  Once I start to put things together, my dough start to gum and I have to introduce it back into the cold and wait to start again.  I live in California. "Oh, I seal sides of dough with water and occasionally cut slits in dough for decorative purposes.  Well that's it.  Tell me what you think."  Oscar.


Edited by heymroscar - 12/18/13 at 12:33pm
post #15 of 20

Good description!  Well, most everything seems reasonable to me.  Keeping cold is important.  You must have a hot kitchen, even for CA!

 

The only thing I can say is that you have to be careful about "sealing the sides".  Too much sealing and hte puf won't rise correctly.  Also, I tend to bake puff at hotter temp - 400 deg usually.

post #16 of 20

Que..."Bring in the Clowns"...

Dear Mr Oscar.....

I am glad I could provide you with some entertainment at my expense.

Last nite I called my therapist and cried for hours over chances lost and pastry not puffed.

In the future please ponder this question.... "where is this person coming from?"... before immediately assuming the person in question was indeed trying to be funny.

 

mimi

 

Oh yeah...FWIIW  I agree with koko re the traditional all butter puff...rises higher, tastes better and the appearence is just...better.

I advise the use of the best products you can find as (some) stores add water and other cheap fillers to the house brands in order to turn a higher profit.

Why is this a bad thing you may ask... the rise comes from steam.

Altho you will get a textbook product during baking, any water left behind (hothothot oven as mr shaw suggests) will (very likely) cause your pastry to turn into a soggy, leaden mass by the next day.

Retirement has turned me into the worst kind of all day PJ wearing sloth that will hit the $ store down the street (for forgotten items) because they only require shoes and shirt to enter.

The siren lure of an inferior butter was just too much but a second baking pulled my rear out of the proverbial crack.

Disclaimer: do not try to save a pastry that has already been artfully glazed or garnished with sugar...for reasons that should be obvious.

That is all.

 

m.

post #17 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by flipflopgirl View Post
 

 

Retirement has turned me into the worst kind of all day PJ wearing sloth that will hit the $ store down the street (for forgotten items) because they only require shoes and shirt to enter.

The siren lure of an inferior butter was just too much but a second baking pulled my rear out of the proverbial crack.

 

May I please have permission to find this humorous and laugh... without having to be chastized or be expected to pay for your next therapy session?  :lol:

post #18 of 20
Of course mr shaw... Bust a gut lol.
My ADD has moved me on to an entirely different subject.
Whenever anyone (family, friends...the people down the block) have questions pertaining to liquor or medicine they think I am the go to person for answers that would take 5 min and a short internet search.
Today it was an email concerning jello shots, eggnog and how to make them pretty by layering the booze and nog.
Really?
Do you really not know how to cherry pick a few words and use a search engine?
Good grief.

mimi
post #19 of 20
Thread Starter 

I see someone beat me to the eggnog question.  Damn!  

post #20 of 20
I see we totally drifted OT , mr oscar.
Sorry dear.
About all things pastry and or yeasty...
Practice is just as important as a good recipe.
I give each new recipe one maybe two chances (if the end result was really close= 2) then move on.
Something else... when you are just starting to learn, try to pry a recipe from a close friend's collection.
Good friends will ALWAYS come to your aid if you need them.
Another chestnut to live by... neighbors and co-employees will start hiding from you and your practice dishes soooo...
Find a shelter that is allowed to serve homemade things (yes there are those that cannot) or a random person panhandeling at red lites and gift to them the almost but not quite there end product.
I sometimes give stuff to the hubs with specific instuctions to hand out to one of the hookers he passes on his way to work.
Lots of hookers hang out around oil refineries.
So... find a great recipe and practice.... a lot.

mimi
* sorry no spell check today.
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