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Cant keep my wusthofs sharp for longer than a day - Page 2

post #31 of 46

I love this thread and hope I can help. I have sharpened many Wusthof knives for many chefs and I've never had one come across my bench that wasn't bent somewhere along the blade. The problem with keeping this knife sharp is the inferior steel being used. On most of these knives you will the formula: X50CrMoV15. This stands for 0.5% carbon, which is very low. The carbon content is what helps retain the edge. The other part of that imprint is 15% chromium and unspecified but smaller amounts of molybdenum and vanadium which is keeping your knife shiny.

 

I have used every type of stone mentioned on this thread including leather strops and hones. The tool is not as important as the method used. I wouldn't get too pent up or spend hours going through different stones when the issue is the steel.

 

Also, I am not a fan of a fatter edge. Factory knives come with an edge of somewhere between 20-30 degrees. Any time I get my hands on a Wusthof or a Henckel knife I re-edge the knife to 10-15 degrees and recommend the chef use a simple hone when the edge begins to dull. I've never had a complaint.

 

I hope this helps.

post #32 of 46
In reference to the two above posts (in order)

The difference between home and constant pro use is thousands of contacts with the board, and most chopping or rocking techniques would seem to be causing your edge (or burr or wire) to roll over. Plus at home we normally have more time and are less hurried and don't put our knives through the same abuse etc etc.

I'm still on the fence if this comment was serious or sarcasm "and I didn't expect them to blunt a bit" as all knives dull, but I also know my expectations were well above the ability of my previous Henkel knives.

"Also, I am not a fan of a fatter edge. "Factory knives come with an edge of somewhere between 20-30 degrees. Any time I get my hands on a Wusthof or a Henckel knife I re-edge the knife to 10-15 degrees and recommend the chef use a simple hone when the edge begins to dull. I've never had a complaint."

I guess that's good if you like sharpening etc but it was after I purchased a Pro-S Santuko and started going lower on the angles and then adapting this to the chefs and others that I found just how poorly the steel holds up under 22 deg.

It was getting sick of touching them up almost daily and sharpening weekly for home use that got me looking for J knives in the first place.

I know we all have different experiences, but that was mine.
Edited by LennyD - 4/17/14 at 12:47pm

 

"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

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"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

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post #33 of 46

i own the same knives and let me say you are not the only one with this problem. i tried whetstones, tri stones, i have around $900 in sharpening instruments. so what works well its so obvious everyone is overlooking the answer.

 

PEtech sharpener from chef choice, a strop, and yes get a ceramic steel you will not regret it for service. you will be able to slice bread with no crumbs and a ripe tomato will be effort less.

 

This is what works for me. i can cook all day and at the end the day the knife is sharp as i started.   

post #34 of 46

I never chimed in on this somewhat old post but will reaffirm that Arks leave a more durable edge on soft stainless than waterstones.  If you use a translucent Ark you will probably have to roughen its surface because they are so fine and slow sharpening otherwise. 

 

But for pro kitchen service the only viable solution to get through a full day with a Wusthof is the Idahone already suggested.  And when full-scale sharpening make sure to raise a good burr to insure all the fatigued steel is removed.

 

 

Rick

post #35 of 46

I must agree with the others, Wusthof doesn't like 2000...8000... grit stones. I never go over 1000. I've been using the same Wusthof Chef for 16 years now.

 

When I sharpen it I run it over a 1000 grit whetstone, that's it. It'll go through a tomato like a hot knife through butter.

post #36 of 46

Hi, what angle are you using to sharpen the Wusthof on the 1000 grit stone ? Thanks.

post #37 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris8 View Post
 

Hi, what angle are you using to sharpen the Wusthof on the 1000 grit stone ? Thanks.

 

I never understood why folks think this.  Try taking it to 6K, and do your touch ups on that 6K using stropping strokes.  I don't care how soft your stainless is, it's a ridiculously huge improvement over 1K.

 

I have an Ikon I finish on a hard translucent Ark (about a 10K finish) and it is a significant improvement over the 6K.

 

 

Rick


Edited by Rick Alan - 7/9/15 at 9:50am
post #38 of 46
I agree as far as very, very light deburring is concerned. That is quite possible. I wouldn't fully sharpen on a fine stone, though. It won't hold that fine polish and the carbides fall out.
post #39 of 46

I think carbide loss is more a function of how acute the angle is, but yes, a keener edge also acts like a steeper edge to some extent.

 

Of all my soft stainless knives the Ikon is the only one that can reasonably hold a 24deg/inclusive edge, and that with just light board contact.  It still cuts very well with a steeper micro-bevel.  Finished with the Ark, or even a few stropping strokes on the 6K, I can cut 0.5mm slices of celery, onions to 0.7, but only when I get lucky.  The edge is pretty thin of course. Wusties HT of the X50CrMo crap is really significantly better than the other German manufacturers, at the loss of some toughness, which really should be no problem at all for the relatively controlled environment of a home kitchen.

 

At close to 30deg/side it is remarkable how well even my softest knife holds an edge, especially with a polished finish.  I can't slice celery to 0.5mm, but oh well, it still cuts reasonably thin.  With my softest knife I could whack through more than a few chicken bones and still have an edge that could cut.

 

Edge thickness here needs to be .25mm minimum, or you'll put a divet in the edge if you so much as touch a bone, .35 being more reasonable for knives in the 55RC and under category.  Though for whacking through chicken bones you really need it a little thicker than that I think.

 

 

Rick


Edited by Rick Alan - 7/10/15 at 9:31am
post #40 of 46

Wusthof sells a combination sharpening stone: 1000/3000.  Assuming Wusthof tested various grit combinations, on their steel, a 3000 grit hone, after using the 1000 grit, to establish a new primary edge, might be the best way to go.  

 

I sharpen Wusthofs at a low angle, after a lot of thinning.  Too high of an angle, shortens the primary edge and the life of the sharpening.


Edited by Full Sack - 7/13/15 at 11:57am
post #41 of 46
"Too high of an angle, shortens the primary edge and the life of the sharpening." Not so sure to understand very well what you're meaning.
post #42 of 46

"Too high of an angle, shortens the primary edge and the life of the sharpening."  

The distance from the beginning of the primary edge to the beginning of the secondary edge is made longer by sharpening the knife with its spine closer to the sharpening stone.  The angle, of the primary edge, becomes more acute the smaller that sharpening angle.  

post #43 of 46
Benuser understands sharpening very well. Just don't quite understand the explanation. It sounds like your suggesting that raising the spine creates too short a bevel . Some knives perform well with a small bevel at the edge. Lots of knives are thinned at 12 to 15 degrees per side with a small micro bevel of 18 to 20 degrees.
post #44 of 46
If full sack will review his first statement I'm sure he'll understand our perplexity with it.


Rick
post #45 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrmnms View Post

Benuser understands sharpening very well. Just don't quite understand the explanation. It sounds like your suggesting that raising the spine creates too short a bevel . Some knives perform well with a small bevel at the edge. Lots of knives are thinned at 12 to 15 degrees per side with a small micro bevel of 18 to 20 degrees.

Yes, that was what I was suggesting, though it could have been worded better.  

Continual sharpening, of the primary edge, without thinning, creates a more obtuse angle, thus decreasing cutting performance.  That's been my experience with the Wusthof.


Edited by Full Sack - 7/13/15 at 6:43pm
post #46 of 46

If the edge has been de-tempered by aggressive grinding just once. All the best steel and sharpening skills are meaningless. Just throw the knife away. It is permanently ruined.

 

Perhaps that is what happened to OP's knife.

 

dcarch 


Edited by dcarch - 7/13/15 at 7:26pm
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