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Why is it safe to eat 125 degree beef?

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 

It's obviously served that way all the time, but the official recommendations are always for much higher temperatures like 160.  And salmonella dies at 140 or something after an hour so 125 obviously won't cut it.  

 

Plus I watched that food documentary about all the cows in the feed lots living in their own manure...somehow I doubt that "only the exterior" could possibly be infected.  

post #2 of 27
Temperature dictates are intended to kill harmful bacteria. If no or little harmful bacteria are present
a lower temp is safe. Depends on the cut and handling. Ground beef needs to be 155 min.
While tenderloin or tri-tip if you cook it to that temp, you have a very expensive piece of ruined meat.
post #3 of 27

Freshness and locality have a lot to do with it. Most harmful bacteria it obtained via slaughter and processing and not within the animal itself. Of course I say, "most" for a reason. I love the taste of raw, not rare, beef. One of the best dishes I've ever had was a raw beef dish called Gored gored

Gourmandise is an impassioned, rational and habitual preference for all objects that flatter the sense of taste.
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post #4 of 27

(user error)


Edited by Dillbert - 12/28/13 at 9:55am
post #5 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dillbert View Post
 

temp to kill

salmonella 131'F;

listeria 158'F;

botulism 240'F;

e-coli 160'F
trichinosis 137'F;

 

pick yer' poison.

 

What about tapeworm?

 

I know it's none too common, here in the US that is, but I've actually been paranoid about it lately, particularly the dwarf variety.  Anyone know the best treatment for the dwarf?  I understand the vermifuge materials are available on the internet, but haven't seen much in the way of specific protocols for their use.

 

Rick

post #6 of 27

(user error)


Edited by Dillbert - 12/28/13 at 9:55am
post #7 of 27

Now seeking appetite. :blush:

 

Not to be a threadthief, but while on that subject now, what gets me skiddish is worms in sushi.

Anyone know what those are and how to best avoid them? Either as a patron or a Sushef?

I don't relish eating things still alive and growing.....and feeding.

post #8 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meezenplaz View Post
 

Now seeking appetite. :blush:

 

Not to be a threadthief, but while on that subject now, what gets me skiddish is worms in sushi.

Anyone know what those are and how to best avoid them? Either as a patron or a Sushef?

I don't relish eating things still alive and growing.....and feeding.

 

Taken from the FDA website about food safety:

 

"Freezing and storing at -4°F (-20°C) or below for 7 days (total time), or 

freezing at -31°F (-35°C) or below until solid and storing at -31°F (-35°C) or below for 15 hours, or 

freezing at -31°F (-35°C) or below until solid and storing at -4°F (-20°C) or below for 24 hours 

is sufficient to kill parasites. FDA's Food Code recommends these freezing conditions to retailers who provide fish intended for raw consumption."

Gourmandise is an impassioned, rational and habitual preference for all objects that flatter the sense of taste.
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Gourmandise is an impassioned, rational and habitual preference for all objects that flatter the sense of taste.
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post #9 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dillbert View Post
 

temp to kill

salmonella 131'F;

listeria 158'F;

botulism 240'F;

e-coli 160'F
trichinosis 137'F;

 

pick yer' poison.

...so given the temperatures above....why is it safe to eat 125 degree beef?

post #10 of 27

Let me rephrase......

 

We eat potentially harmful bacteria for instance all the time--in minute amounts. It's the potential

for growth that is of concern. You can eat tri tip at 125° because the botulism, salmonella,

listeria, ecoli and trichinosis aren't THERE, or not in high enough counts to harm you.

post #11 of 27

Meez stated it nice.

If you take a course in food manipulation and hygiene you will be disgusted and surprised. 

Disgusted to see how fast germs reproduce and how some people handle meat , fish , etc...

And surprised on how humans are still alive. 

 

Its as meez stated , we eat potentially harmful food daily. The attempt is to stop their growth process while eliminating some if not all. 

Your body has the sufficient tools to combat harmful substances as well. 

If we were to honestly worry about everything we eat and how it could kill us, we might as well take supplement pills. 

 

Im a proud eater of steak tartar and sushi and dont plan on giving those up too soon either lol. 


Edited by KaiqueKuisine - 12/28/13 at 9:32am

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post #12 of 27

(user error)


Edited by Dillbert - 12/28/13 at 9:56am
post #13 of 27

(user error)


Edited by Dillbert - 12/28/13 at 9:56am
post #14 of 27

I highly doubt the beefs overall temperature would hit 80 degrees just by sitting on a counter xD especially with no way of directing the heat towards the product. 

 

The healthiness of food has more to do with the source and care of the preparation of it than with how long it is cooked. There are obvious exceptions to this especially when talking about meats internal temperature.  

Bacterial Growth can be a problem in food preparation, but not all bacteria are pathogens (in fact most are not). Cooking meat and other protein items can lessen or eliminate the possibility of bacterial growth if the correct internal temperatures are reached.  

Common sense in food preparation can do much to eliminate the contamination of foods, including meat. Realize that raw meat (and fish and eggs) have been in the human diet for a very long time (and usually without food poisoning). 

In terms of the carcinogenic nature of cooked meat, much of this is by association (with charred fats) and not by studies of direct cause and effect. 

 

But you must also consider the products handling , and cut along with other factors. Meat actually has to gain seal of approval in order to be sold, packaged etc...

Their are loads of other factors that occur outside of the restaurant that may affect the quality of any product.  

 

You must also remember correct refrigerting temperatures (-4 degrees celsius or 20 degrees f) and freezing temperatures (listed by lucas) since bacteria dont reproduce or survive in lower temperatures. 

Bacteria too have needs and desirable temperatures and conditions to maintain alive and reproduce....

 

I am in no way stating eating beef at 125 degrees is safe (actually its not) but considering heat the only factor is also incorrect. 

I dont eat beef at 125 degrees but im fine with eating a tartar or sushi , because i like them. I go to places that handle their products correctly. 

 

http://www.foodsafety.gov/blog/meat_temperatures.html

http://www.fda.gov/forconsumers/consumerupdates/ucm093704.htm


Edited by KaiqueKuisine - 12/28/13 at 9:41am

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post #15 of 27

(user error)


Edited by Dillbert - 12/28/13 at 9:56am
post #16 of 27

I feel like I am watching a ping pong match. I enjoy playing ping pong but not sure about it's value as a spectator sport.

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post #17 of 27

Pasteurization time-temperature for beef: http://sousvide.wikia.com/wiki/Importance_of_temperature_control_on_pasteurizing_times, the included graph clearly illustrates that the time-temperature function is not linear.

 

Another point to consider: Bacteria does not "travel" in solid meat, it is located on the surface, not the interior, therefore, if the surface is either cleaned of all bacteria(sanitized) or heated above the pasteurization temperature, the beef is safe to eat with regards to bacterial contamination.

 

Ground beef is an entirely different matter. The grinding process will incorporate any surface bacteria throughout the meat and, therefore, the entire meat product must be raised to the pasteurization time-temperature to insure all bacteria has been killed.
 

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post #18 of 27

Ugh i had to edit my post a bunch of times , lost track of time , and now more people posting lol. 

Took 50 minutes to edit my post and actually see if it made sense (i know i am not a normal human being). 

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post #19 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheflayne View Post
 

I feel like I am watching a ping pong match. I enjoy playing ping pong but not sure about it's value as a spectator sport.

Agreed...

 

This debate can go on for days lol. 

Trying to debate someones preferance using science , wont change much. 

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post #20 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaiqueKuisine View Post
 

 

Took 50 minutes to edit my post and actually see if it made sense (i know i am not a normal human being).

The good news is that you fit in here just fine! :eek:

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post #21 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dillbert View Post
 

regardless,

the premise that if it takes X degrees to kill some bacteria, and

it is only heated to to 80% of X degrees - that will kill 80% of the bacteria

 

is very wrong.

My post was 33 hours ago , that means it was 8am here , considering i fell asleep at 6am and woke up , i was most likely possessed , tired , and skimming your post before even contributing , not even going to take into account what i said or if it made any sense ( because at that time didnt)

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post #22 of 27
Dillbert, what's with all your missing posts? Its making this ping pong match even harder to follow.
Is there a problem with your postings?

Chef Pete, your explanation of bacteria not travelling below the surface was the best I've heard.
I might also point out (to others, not you :-) that this is one of the reasons we season...then SEAR
a hunk of meat before storing or cooking it further. You're effectively sanitizing that bad boy.

I might also note that regarding non harmful bacteria, just because something is "spoiled"
doesn't mean its harmful. But since many kinds of microbes produce undesirable biproducts
in the foods they inhabit, you certainly don't want to eat it with that off color and smells.
Natural airborne yeasts are the same way...and molds.
All part of our age old, bite or flight defense mechinism. :-)
post #23 of 27

Pete best explanation thus far , guess we have a new ping pong champion xD. 

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post #24 of 27

Oh darn and just when I was about send him a smash and go for match! :p

post #25 of 27

Can I start eating my carpaccio now? And what about my beloved steak tartare?

post #26 of 27

What about jacquard meat?  A lot of times in the store the that's the way they tenderize it.

post #27 of 27

I don't know for sure but I would say the action of using the jacquard would push surface bacteria into the interior making it questionable. I would imagine it would be safest to consider jacuard tenderized beef the same as ground beef, but I have no substantiating evidence.

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