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To Malt or not to Malt?

post #1 of 8
Thread Starter 

Hello...

 

I am new to bagel baking.  I have read all I can find.  There are dry, and wet syrup malts in diastatic and non-diastatic.  There are lots of bakers that chose one of the 4 products.  I need to order some malt but do not know whether to go with diastatic or non... and dry powder versus syrup.  Can anyone here help with the reasons why?  Does diastatic do something to the dough during fermentation, besides malt flavor?  thanks!

post #2 of 8

Diastatic malt contains live/active diastase enzyme. In Non-Diastatic, the enzyme has been rendered inert. Non-diastatic malt is used as a sweetener. It does not have any real impact on the texture of the finished product. Diastatic malt, with the active enzymes, helps break starches down into sugars. The sugars provide food for the yeast. Diastatic malt can improve the texture of the finished product.

 

Kyle

"At weddings, my Aunts would poke me in the ribs and cackle "You're next!". They stopped when I started doing the same to them at funerals." D. Barry
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"At weddings, my Aunts would poke me in the ribs and cackle "You're next!". They stopped when I started doing the same to them at funerals." D. Barry
Reply
post #3 of 8
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyleW View Post
 

Diastatic malt contains live/active diastase enzyme. In Non-Diastatic, the enzyme has been rendered inert. Non-diastatic malt is used as a sweetener. It does not have any real impact on the texture of the finished product. Diastatic malt, with the active enzymes, helps break starches down into sugars. The sugars provide food for the yeast. Diastatic malt can improve the texture of the finished product.

 

Kyle


OK then...  For a good bagel, which do I use?  I know that in some breads, enzyme action can destroy dough structure and the bread is junk.  The acidity of a sour dough bread stops this cannibal enzyme from attacking the dough.  We add ascorbic acid to accomplish the same thing in regular bread.  RYE bread tends to do this to the dough structure.   Is there a trade off here concerning time, in the retarding of the dough?  I am wanting to order some malt and need to order the right stuff.  Thanks for your help.

 

Glennn

post #4 of 8

For bagels it's used as a sweetener so I'd go with non-diastatic powder. You can use it in the water for boiling the bagels too. I'm not sure if syrup comes in diastatic and non-diastatic versions.

 

Kyle

"At weddings, my Aunts would poke me in the ribs and cackle "You're next!". They stopped when I started doing the same to them at funerals." D. Barry
Reply
"At weddings, my Aunts would poke me in the ribs and cackle "You're next!". They stopped when I started doing the same to them at funerals." D. Barry
Reply
post #5 of 8
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyleW View Post
 

For bagels it's used as a sweetener so I'd go with non-diastatic powder. You can use it in the water for boiling the bagels too. I'm not sure if syrup comes in diastatic and non-diastatic versions.

 

Kyle


I just received samples of it both ways yesterday. I have not tried them yet.  So then, the qualities of the diastatic would not make a better bagel?  I am familiar some what with the differences in a New York versus a Montreal bagel.  I am trying for the NY.  In the water?  I was reading that some NY bagels get boiled in Lye water.

post #6 of 8

There is great mythology surrounding both NYC and Montreal bagels :) As a resident of NYC for most of the last 20 years my allegiance is to Gotham City!  When I have made bagels it was with NYC tap water, a component of the aforementioned mythology. 

 

In my head the keys to a good bagel are high protein flour (Bread), a very stiff dough and boiling prebake in water laced with non-diastatic barley malt powder (not Lye). For me, the best thing about a bagel is the hard outer crust, the shine of which is enhanced by the non-diastatic malt powder. You may be able to enhance the inner crumb by adding diastatic malt to the dough, but it seems unnecessary.

 

Just one man's opinion...

 

Kyle

"At weddings, my Aunts would poke me in the ribs and cackle "You're next!". They stopped when I started doing the same to them at funerals." D. Barry
Reply
"At weddings, my Aunts would poke me in the ribs and cackle "You're next!". They stopped when I started doing the same to them at funerals." D. Barry
Reply
post #7 of 8
Thread Starter 

I have tried the same dough in water, and water with lye.  The lye definitely makes the skin a little tougher and darker.  I read somewhere that they use stronger lye for pretzels.  Sadly, the bagels I grew up on in Massapequa are not the same today.  OK... I will try all the variations we have talked about.  Thanks

post #8 of 8

Still on LI? I just moved to Great Neck and the bagels @Best Bagel on Middleneck Road are very good :) 

"At weddings, my Aunts would poke me in the ribs and cackle "You're next!". They stopped when I started doing the same to them at funerals." D. Barry
Reply
"At weddings, my Aunts would poke me in the ribs and cackle "You're next!". They stopped when I started doing the same to them at funerals." D. Barry
Reply
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