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Mamamoto VG 240mm, Disappointed

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 

Hi all,

I just got my masamoto VG last wk and Im kind of disappointed.  It wasn't that sharp out of the box and the seller says its already super sharp out of the box.  It is not sharp.. I think I need to sharpen it..

It passed the tomato test but didnt pass the blowing hair on the knife and the knife cuts the hair test. 

That is not a hard test to pass.  (http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTA2OTY2Mjcy.html)  Even my Wusthof can do it.

So is it 2x better than the 100 dollar Sakai Takayuki at just half the price??

 

Has anyone tried both? I want it to pass the hair blowing test..I know no one does it but if you have a good knife could you try it to tell me if it can do it? do I need to sharpen it and should I just get a Sakai... it seems equally good.

Please feel free to tell me bc Im new to this!

post #2 of 18
How does the knife cut? I wouldn't worry so much about the hair test if the knife cuts well. Japanese knives often come less than ideal out of the box in terms of sharpness. The oob sharpness is not an indication of what the knife is capable of. If you are unable to sharpen even if you purchase a knife that can pass the hair test it won't pass for long.
post #3 of 18

Regardless of what a seller says, kitchen knives directly from the maker are rarely full-potential sharp. The expectation is for the end user to sharpen it to their liking. That includes angles, microbevels and so forth. Once that's done with your knife then you'll decide whether or not you're dissapointed. 

post #4 of 18
Most Japanese blades come almost unsharpened out of the box. I've been told in Japan the end-user is expected to sharpen it himself or have it done by the reseller. As a kind of service to the Western public the knife is somewhat sharpened. That means that the youngest apprentice has put an edge on it with a grinding wheel, and did some buffering for deburring. It's an edge, all you can say about it. That knife hasn't yet seen any sharpening stone. Korin offers free stone sharpening for new Western type knives.
So, sharpen it, or have it sharpened, and use it in the kitchen. It's meant for cutting food, not for sharpening tests. Use it for a week or two, sharpen it again a few times perhaps, tweak it when necessary and report your findings.
post #5 of 18
Thread Starter 

i called them again.  they said western knives are already sharp (masamoto vg) they do sharpen it but they said it would only make it only SLIGHTLY sharper.

they said the problem is proly bc the masamoto vg is  a wa gyoto is 70/30 not the traditional 90/10 japanese knife.  they said i could sharpen it with my 800/6000 wetstone to something close to 90/10 and see what happenes...

 

what do you guys think?  does your knife pass my test with 70/30 or 90/10?

 

thanks!!!


Edited by Ethan Yang - 3/29/14 at 10:43am
post #6 of 18
I'm not going to discuss his advices, but who is this reseller??
He should have proposed to sharpen it for you, instead of adding a lot of confusion with that asymmetry stuff. Anyway, for now I would stick with the existing geometry. If you experience any steering we may discuss the next step. That would rather be a form of mitigating that asymmetry. Sharpen it using the sharpie trick.
Edited by Benuser - 3/29/14 at 3:51pm
post #7 of 18
Thread Starter 

i bought it from chefknivestogo and i talked to korin most recently.  but both said they think its sharp out of the box.  i am trying to sharpen it i have 800/6000.  do you suggest changing the angle to 90/10 or just make it 70/30 the same geometry but sharper?  sorry just making sure.  btw i have been watching the korin sharpening video.

post #8 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Yang View Post
 

Hi all,

I just got my masamoto VG last wk and Im kind of disappointed.  It wasn't that sharp out of the box and the seller says its already super sharp out of the box.  It is not sharp.. I think I need to sharpen it..

It passed the tomato test but didnt pass the blowing hair on the knife and the knife cuts the hair test. 

That is not a hard test to pass.  (http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTA2OTY2Mjcy.html)  Even my Wusthof can do it.

So is it 2x better than the 100 dollar Sakai Takayuki at just half the price??

 

Has anyone tried both? I want it to pass the hair blowing test..I know no one does it but if you have a good knife could you try it to tell me if it can do it? do I need to sharpen it and should I just get a Sakai... it seems equally good.

Please feel free to tell me bc Im new to this!

 

Can you please describe these tests... and more exactly how you do them?

 

I would like to try them both out on a few of my knives....

 

Thanks

----

 


"Plus, this method makes you look like a complete lunatic. If you care about that sort of thing".  - Dave Arnold

 

Reply

----

 


"Plus, this method makes you look like a complete lunatic. If you care about that sort of thing".  - Dave Arnold

 

Reply
post #9 of 18
I would indeed suggest to stay with the existing geometry, which will be about 70/30 FWIW. By the way, I don't understand why one would be preoccupied by existing proportions. You start on one side somewhere above the bevel, raise the spine little by little until you reach the very edge and raise a burr. Verify your progress meanwhile with the sharpie trick or the scratch pattern. Do the same on the other side. You're not going to displace the edge, aren't you?
Edited by Benuser - 3/30/14 at 12:44am
post #10 of 18
Thread Starter 

michaelga: 

 

hair test: blow hair against the knife edge and hair breaks (http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTA2OTY2Mjcy.html) (failed)

 

sponge test: cuts wet sponge without effort (havent tried)

 

paper test: cuts a sheets of paper without effort (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd2Ksgwfrc0) (passes)

 

tomato test 1: drop a tomato like the link above and its halved. (havent tried)

 

tomato test 2: cut hair-thin slices with knife without holding the tomato.  mine half passes bc i would have to cut the tomato in half first so the middle is on the table. i think most ppl do it this way so i can say it passes.   if my tomato isnt halved, then i cant do it.  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjqDnOc2Qdo&list=TL0P7fMNpJodozQSkshfRJohXh2XoZrBZ0)

(half passes)

 

 

i think the hardest of these to meet is the hair test.  but i expected this knife to do all the above.

 

benuser:

 

not sure.  i m new to sharpening.  i was only interested in changing the geometry if it made it sharper.  korin said its harder to maintain the 90/10 edge and i would have sharpen more often. obviously i wouldnt do the 90/10 if i dont have to.

 

i plan to follow this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCYI7lk3eKY  

any objections?


Edited by Ethan Yang - 3/30/14 at 6:41am
post #11 of 18
I can sell you a knife that can blow your mind , message me details or any other questions my company has a forever guarantee we have over 16 million customers and they didn't have to sharpen their knifes till 20 years later we charge nothing for returns we will give you brand new set free
post #12 of 18

:lol:

post #13 of 18
Thread Starter 

what??

post #14 of 18
Ethan your knife is capable of passing all of the tests you describe. A good sharpener could probably get most knives to pass the test you are talking about. This does not mean this is the type of edge you want on every knife. Sharpening takes time and practice to learn. If the most important thing to you is passing sharpness tests as opposed to performance in the kitchen I would recommend sending the knife out to an experienced sharpener and tell them what you are looking for. I'm not too familiar with the masa vg steel but getting this level of refinement may compromise other aspects such as edge retention. You may want to start your free hand practice with a cheaper carbon blade if you want your masa to maintain its edge once you get it where you want it
post #15 of 18

Why in hell do you want a kitchen knife to cut a hair in the air?

Gebe Gott uns allen, uns Trinkern, einen so leichten und so schönen Tod! Joseph Roth.
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Gebe Gott uns allen, uns Trinkern, einen so leichten und so schönen Tod! Joseph Roth.
Reply
post #16 of 18
Thread Starter 

that a test!

post #17 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Yang View Post
 

michaelga: 

 

hair test: blow hair against the knife edge and hair breaks (http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTA2OTY2Mjcy.html) (failed)

 

sponge test: cuts wet sponge without effort (havent tried)

 

paper test: cuts a sheets of paper without effort (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd2Ksgwfrc0) (passes)

 

tomato test 1: drop a tomato like the link above and its halved. (havent tried)

 

tomato test 2: cut hair-thin slices with knife without holding the tomato.  mine half passes bc i would have to cut the tomato in half first so the middle is on the table. i think most ppl do it this way so i can say it passes.   if my tomato isnt halved, then i cant do it.  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjqDnOc2Qdo&list=TL0P7fMNpJodozQSkshfRJohXh2XoZrBZ0)

(half passes)

 

 

i think the hardest of these to meet is the hair test.  but i expected this knife to do all the above.

 

benuser:

 

not sure.  i m new to sharpening.  i was only interested in changing the geometry if it made it sharper.  korin said its harder to maintain the 90/10 edge and i would have sharpen more often. obviously i wouldnt do the 90/10 if i dont have to.

 

i plan to follow this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCYI7lk3eKY  

any objections?

 

I haven't seen the first two tests before this.

 

The tomato test 1 is irrelevant and is just a parlor trick at best. Weight of the tomato, toughness of the skin and the height from which it is dropped will always change the results of the test. Just about any knife should "pass" this test and not really be that sharp. I would be impressed if I saw someone hold a tomato an inch higher than the blade and drop it from that height and it slices it through all the way. Anything else and it's hard to tell just how sharp a knife really is by this imprecise test. 

 

I use the 2nd tomato test all the time and I think it is most relevant to how sharp you need a knife in a kitchen. Really, what other ingredients will you be using in a kitchen that will require an even sharper blade than this? This is also the same degree of sharpness that will make a really nice, clean cut through fish flesh. Slicing grapes thinly is one of the only other things I can think of that would require a really sharp blade to make a nice, clean cut. (I'm also a stickler for chiffonaded basil having a really nice, clean cut without bruising.) 

 

When will you ever cut floating hairs or wet sponges in your kitchen?

 

I think if a knife is sharp enough to do the 2nd tomato test, then it is plenty sharp for me. I also could get my old wustoff this sharp, but it did not hold this level of sharpness for very long... Your masamoto should do a much better job of edge retention and cutting performance. 

 

Learn how to sharpen with a whetstone and that masamoto should be a very adequate knife for you for many tasks for a very long time. Learning to sharpen properly will be one of the best skills you learn and will serve you well for the rest of your life. 

 

P.S. ROFL at the cutco guy! I almost spit my drink out when I read that. Perfect timing! LOL

post #18 of 18

The knife you have is amazing, be sure of that. I always shappen my knives as soon as I get them. Why? 1st, because I know they are not sharp enought out of the box (japanese), 2nd because I have my angles preference but look for the best result on slight variations. 

Do not change the geometry first. Craw before you run. try acute angles first.

 

 

PS. Do these cutco guys succeed with this kind of approach? They could be happier just selling at wallmart. 

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