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New tojiro shirogami gyuto tips?

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
Hello good People :-) im New to this site and cooking in general. I got a naniwa super stone 3000grit and a king 1000 and 6000grit any sharpening tips? I Wonder to things first shal this knife be Honed On a Ceramic Rod? And any tips to a good and cheap one on ebay?

Second any tips to getting a good pretty and protective patina?

Sorry for bad english And grammar
Edited by mrbushido - 4/25/14 at 9:27am
post #2 of 27
Thread Starter 
And is this edge 50/50?
post #3 of 27

I had an ITK petty for a year or so. I don't think careful use of a ceramic rod will hurt it, but I don't think I'd buy a ceramic hone just to use on this knife. I've got both a ceramic hone and also a balsa-wood strop with CBN (Cubic Boron Nitride) solution on it, and I find I use the strop a lot more often. My five knives have Rockwell hardness of 58-59, 58-ish, 62-63, 62-63, and 62, so two kind of medium and three harder. If most of your knives are softer than the ITK, then maybe a ceramic rod would be a good idea. In any case, you can also strop on your highest-grit stone.

 

As far as a patina on the ITK, I can tell you what NOT to do. Don't try to force a warm vinegar patina. It took the kurouchi finish right off of my ITK, leaving it more reactive than ever. Probably best just to cut a bunch of onions and let a patina form naturally.

 

Hope this helps!

post #4 of 27
Thread Starter 
kurouchi? Itk? And this will be my Only good knife So No Ceramic hone needed?
post #5 of 27

Kurouchi is the black finish on the sides of the blade and is a product of the quenching process.  It also protects the iron cladding from rust and reactivity.  If you were to remove it you'd have to force a patina or everything you cut will smell and taste like a foundry.  These are nice knives for the money once you get the edge sorted out.  Mine gets thinned behind the cutting edge every time I have the stones wet so it's getting there.  Just to be sure this is the knife you are talking about right?

 

post #6 of 27
Thread Starter 
Yes it is thank you :-)
post #7 of 27
Thread Starter 
Mike9 is the edge 50/50?
post #8 of 27

It's close, but out of the box it's nothing to worry about.  I tend to stone mine with a little asymmetry anyway.  I find it helps eliminate steering as I'm right handed.

post #9 of 27
Thread Starter 
Okey thank for the tips mates :-)
post #10 of 27
Thread Starter 

bdl you are the knife guru any tips on patina and sharpening?

post #11 of 27
Thread Starter 
And bdl any tips on this knife and in general? Thanks in advance
post #12 of 27
I wouldn't think there's much point in a patina with kurouchi. Just cut with it and keep it sharp.
post #13 of 27
Thread Starter 
And how do i keep it sharp?
post #14 of 27
Thread Starter 
Thinking og sanding Down the Black and Thinning it behind the edge to make it less prone to wedging and sticking in say potatoes what do you guys think?
post #15 of 27

I've got both the 240mm gyuto and the santoku Tojiro ITK's and on both I stripped the korouchi off, sanded down the backside and thinned excessively. I also rounded the spines and cut a groove in the choils and I also finished the handles. They both perform quite a bit better now and have leagues better F&F with the little work I did.

 

I don't usually use the ceramic rod on them because the steel seems a little too hard and brittle for that. I usually maintain mine on a split leather strop with chromium oxide and they get super sharp and rarely need to be taken to the stones. The leather just seems to reestablish the edge on those quite well all by itself. When I have stoned them, I think I've just used the arashiyama 6000 and that has worked wonders on the white #2. I may have used the bester 1200 on them both once in the year that I've owned them.

post #16 of 27

You will need a course stone like a Beston 500 to do any serious thinning, unless you don't mind spending many many hours wearing out your 1K stone.  You will have to inspect your work frequently so as not to damage the edge.

 

Try this:  If you are right-handed, grind the left side flat, eliminating all convex curvature on that side.  This will thin your knife and leave the convex right side for good food-release, such as when thin-slicing potatoes or cucumber.

 

Rick

post #17 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Alan View Post
 

You will need a course stone like a Beston 500 to do any serious thinning, unless you don't mind spending many many hours wearing out your 1K stone.  You will have to inspect your work frequently so as not to damage the edge.

 

Try this:  If you are right-handed, grind the left side flat, eliminating all convex curvature on that side.  This will thin your knife and leave the convex right side for good food-release, such as when thin-slicing potatoes or cucumber.

 

Rick

 

Right you are. I neglected to mention I thinned mine on that same stone and thinned mine in that same manner. 

post #18 of 27
Thread Starter 
Im a lefty shal i then thin the right side? Wont that make the knife single bevel? isnt it easier to thin about the samme on bot sides?
post #19 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbushido View Post

Im a lefty shal i then thin the right side? Wont that make the knife single bevel? isnt it easier to thin about the samme on bot sides?

 

Right side it would be.  It won't be a single bevel edge unless you want it to be.  You can still bevel both sides of the edge itself, but you might want to try an asymmetrical grind (micro-bevel on the right side for you) when you get some experience.

 

You can get real fancy and put something like a 5deg edge on the right, and something like a 25deg on the left.

 

Rick

post #20 of 27
Thread Starter 
Hmm sounds difficult
post #21 of 27
Before deciding on thinning one side or another or both, verify for steering and even out friction of both sides.
post #22 of 27
Thread Starter 
Okey Thanks mates :-)
post #23 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benuser View Post

Before deciding on thinning one side or another or both, verify for steering and even out friction of both sides.

 

I think you will need to make a video for that one......

post #24 of 27
No way! I must humbly admit I find it hard to express these things into words. In images it just will be much harder I'm afraid.
post #25 of 27
Thread Starter 
Im lost haha
post #26 of 27
I personally wouldn't buy a knife whose basic profile I didn't like. So I don't see the point in all this thinning. I know some folks here like that kind of customization, but if you're lost you should ignore all that. Sharpen the bevel that's given to you.

With debas, they're usually hamaguri, meaning "clamshell," which means that they are gently concave. This is easy. As you stroke the blade on a bench stone, think about trying not to be completely flat but rather coming up a hair at the far end of the stroke. Then try to convince your hands to keep a flat bevel. That slight disjuncture will produce a decent hamaguri grind. Deburr very, very gently (as with all hollow-backed single-bevel knives).

Thinness makes no difference whatever in debas. They're breaking knives. If something is hitting the hollow back of the knife, except on the first cut down the backbone, you're probably doing something wrong. It's a razor-sharp, very heavy knife that cuts on its face.
post #27 of 27
It's rarely a question of poor geometry. It's more about poor factory sharpening. Japanese knives tended to be delivered unsharpened. That's to be done by the customer or for him, by the reseller. As a service to Western customers some edge is put on them, probably in a few seconds on a grinding wheel by the youngest apprentice. Some buffering to clean up and, indeed, there is an edge.
If the geometry is OK, all wedging, steering and other inconveniences caused by an improper sharpening can easily be addressed. It's only about the last few millimeters, not about reshaping the entire blade.
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