ChefTalk.com › ChefTalk Cooking Forums › Food and Cooking Forums › Food & Cooking Questions and Discussion › How many food "specialties" are unknown in the country they're believed to come from?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

How many food "specialties" are unknown in the country they're believed to come from?

post #1 of 29
8/12/02 at 7:09am
Thread Starter 
In a recent thread I asked about Muffeletta and found out that it's an "Italian" sandwich specialty...or, better, an "Italo-American" specialty since in Italy it's totally unknown (as I have explained, the sound of the word makes me figuring a polecat sandwich:p )

This is only the last "Italian" recipe I've found out here for the first time in my life, being popular abroad but unknown it Italy. Apparently, this seems to happen due to two different reasons: either the dish has been invented by Italian emigrants after having settled in their new country, or, although born in Italy, it has become popular for some reason among the foreign tourists and "exported" in their country (Nemo propheta in patria! ;) )

So, I wonder how many recipes exist in the world which are actually unknown in the country they're told to come from, and why!
As for Italy, they're the first ones I can remember:

1) As I said, Muffeletta. Not only it's totally unknown (I did an online search, and the WORD itself doesn't exist in Italian) but it's also unknown the "Italian Olive Salad" which seems to be the most characteristic feature of this sandwich! I mean, the "Giardiniera" is typically Italian, but it's not particularly rich in olives..

2)GENOA SALAMI! :eek:
By Gosh, we don't have anything like that! The only Salame that's really born in Genoa is the so-called "Salame di Sant'Olcese", which is very fresh, sweet and tender and it's usually eaten with raw broad beans, fresh pecorino and dry white wine.
The "Genoa Salami" I had in US seems more to come from Calabria, where those red and spicy salami are very diffused.

3)Cioppino. If I remember well, this has been the very first thread I posted under...although the name sounds like our "Ciuppin" (and probably comes from it) the dish is not the same, so if you order it in Italy you'll get something different from you're looking for.

4)Fettuccine Alfredo! We have had another thread about this...although born in Italy, this dish is almost unknown here as it comes from one of the thousands of "tourist traps" in Rome, the restaurant Alfredo, which isn't that popular here. Someone told me that it was the favourite restaurant of an American movie star (or someone like that) I can't remember, that "imported" the recipe in America (hope I remember right)
BTW...this is just the reason why the restaurant "Zeffirino" (that is an average one and, among the other things, owned by non-Genovese people) is the most famous Genovese restaurant abroad...because it was the favourite place of Frank Sinatra!

Those are the first examples coming to my mind, but I'm sure many other exist, not only "Italian" but also "French" or "American" or everything else, and I'm curious about them...

Pongi
Reply
post #2 of 29
8/12/02 at 7:17am
French Fries and French Toast :D
Reply
post #3 of 29
8/12/02 at 7:56am
Thread Starter 
OK, CC...but what is a French Toast?

What about Russian Salad (assuming that you Americans call it the same way:D )?

Pongi
Reply
post #4 of 29
8/12/02 at 9:58am
Not to mention Russian and French dressing.

English muffins too.
Reply
post #5 of 29
8/12/02 at 11:34am
Pongi,

Here's a link for French toast.
Reply
post #6 of 29
8/12/02 at 11:47am
1) Chop suey can’t be found anywhere in China.

The dish was invented on August 29, 1895 by the chef oF visiting Chinese Ambassador Hung-chang Li in New York City. Others claim that the real name of the dish is "Lee Gone Chop Suey," after General Lee Hon Chung, who visited Japan 74 years ago. Legend has it that it was too late in the evening for the chef to serve a regular meal, so he combined his left-overs in a stir-fry concoction. The general liked the taste so much that the dish was named after him. Common belief, however, is that chop suey is the English pronounciation of the Chinese words tsa-sui, meaning "mixed pieces," a dish created by the early Chinese immigrants, who were untrained cooks. It comprises bits of meat, bean sprouts, onions, mushrooms, etc. cooked in their own juices and served with rice.

2) The same goes for Singapore noodles. The take-out menu favorite, which consists of stir-fried rice noodles, pork, shrimp, vegetables and egg in a spicy curry sauce, sounds like something that would come from Singapore -- but it’s not.
Reply
post #7 of 29
8/12/02 at 1:28pm
German Chocolate Cake!

After some web-surfing I found the following info, duplicated in several sites. The quote below is from "Linda's Culinary Dictionary" and the link is: http://www.whatscookingamerica.net/Glossary/G.htm

"German Chocolate Cake - German Chocolate Cake is an American creation that contains the key ingredients of sweet baking chocolate, coconut, and pecans..

History: The cake took its name from an American with the last name of "German." In 1852, Sam German created the mild dark baking chocolate bar for Baker's Chocolate Co. The product was named in his honor - "Baker's German's Sweet Chocolate." In most recipes and products today, the apostrophe and the "s" have been dropped, thus giving the false hint as for the chocolate's origin.

The first published recipe for German's chocolate cake showed up in a Dallas newspaper in 1957 and came from a Texas homemaker. The cake quickly gained popularity and its recipe together with the mouth-watering photos were spread all over the country. America fell in love with German Chocolate cake."
Reply
post #8 of 29
8/12/02 at 1:54pm
I'll bet Vienna sausages fall in this category. At least I hope so! Such an elegant city, such inelegant sausages... :eek:
Reply
post #9 of 29
8/12/02 at 3:13pm
Pongi,
do you know why it's called Russian salad? I remember making it for some Bahamians and they got very excited at the thought of having Russiand salad. I had to hastily explain that it may not be Russian at all - it was just that the Spanish, Italians and Greeks called it so.
Reply
post #10 of 29
8/12/02 at 7:59pm
My recolleciton of Salade Russe (Russian Salad) was a mixture of peas, carrots and maybe some other root vegetables cut into small dice (brunoise??), enrobed in mayonnaise. There may have been some hard-boiled egg involved, too.
Reply
post #11 of 29
8/12/02 at 8:09pm
Pongi, though I do love this thread, there are many dishes that are considered to be ethnic yet were created here, in the states, I do have to point out that the Muffeletta was, in fact, created in the USA, just by italian immigrants, the same goes with cioppino. These dishes are quite well documented in having their origins in the US.

but since you started the thread, how about most of the foods found in Mexican restaurants here. I have never worked with a mexican who had ever seen a taco as most Americans know it. Or nachos, or chimichangas (deep-fried burritos). And many staples on Chinese restaurant menus are Chinese-American inventions, including fortune cookies!
Reply
post #12 of 29
8/12/02 at 10:06pm
Except that muffins do come from england.

I would vote for Danish pastries; in Denmark they are known as Viennese pastries.
Reply
post #13 of 29
8/13/02 at 4:31am

Is it a mule?

Except the muffins in England are not like the American "English muffin"
Reply
post #14 of 29
8/13/02 at 6:15am
caesar salad is not Italian, it was invented in Mexico.
Reply
post #15 of 29
8/13/02 at 4:45pm
How about that 'Irish' specialty, corned beef? Ask about corned beef in Ireland, and you'll get many puzzled looks!

Far as I've been able to read about it, when the Irish immigrants came to NY, they settled in many of the same neighborhoods as Jewish folk; brisket was a common item at the butcher, and the Irish took it and adapted it for their own.

And, although I've never read anything about it, my guess is that a lot of the 'Pennsylvania Dutch' and German recipes are those created here in the states by the German and Dutch immigrants, and are unknown in Holland and Germany. Hmmm, may have to make a trip to the library for this!
Reply
post #16 of 29
8/14/02 at 4:22am
Certainly unknown in Holland as there are very few Dutch folk in Pennsylvania;)

IIRC the Dutch in "Pennsylvania Dutch" is an Americanization of Deutsch, in other words German.:p
Reply
post #17 of 29
8/14/02 at 4:57am
Beg to dfifer, Britcook, as I've met some!
Reply
post #18 of 29
8/14/02 at 7:30am
Thread Starter 
Rachel,
Actually Russian salad is a French dish.
It has been created by the French chef Jacques Olivier, who had been in the service of Czar Nicholas II.
After being escaped from Russia, he opened a restaurant in Wiesbaden (Germany) where invented the dish, naming it "Salade à la Russe" in honor of his former employer.
This is the reason why Russians call this dish "Olivier Salad" and NOT "Russian Salad"... :)
BTW, the original recipe is slightly different from the "basic" versions we usually have all around the world, calling also for roasted chicken cubes and (of course!) for sour cream in the sauce.

Something else?

Chicken Tikka Masala, one of the most popular "indian" dishes in Britain (Is it correct, Britcook?) is not really Indian. It has been invented in England by the indian immigrates to meet the European taste, adding a tomato sauce to the traditional indian chicken stews.

Another curiosity: as you know, Vitello Tonnato is an Italian dish. Probably some of you also know that it comes from Piemonte.
Well, many Italians believe that it's a French dish as in Italy it is often called "Vitel Tonnè"...very funny as this is not French (a real French name for the dish should be something like "Veau avec sauce de thon") but a mock French of obscure origin...surely NOT a Piemontese name:D

Pongi
Reply
post #19 of 29
8/14/02 at 12:06pm
And then there's the concoction of rice, green peppers and tomato juice that's served as "Spanish Rice"...
Reply
post #20 of 29
8/14/02 at 8:52pm
Marmalady, though I am sure that there are some true "dutch" living in PA, the term Pennsylvania Dutch is, just like Britcook said, a bastardization of the word Duetsch. Many of the early settlers of Pennsylvania were of German origin, mostly from an area called the Lower Palantinate (which includes parts of the Lower Rhine, and some towns such as Bayern (sp?)). A large wave of these immigrants came starting in the late 1600's and through the 1730's, though the majority came in a span from about 1716 to 1739. These people were most often farmers (relatively poor and illiterate) who were escaping religious pursecution and war. These Germans boarded ships on the Rhine and went to either Holland or to England, from there they were sent to the New World, with ships landing all over the Eastern Seaboard, but especially heavily in Philadelphia. There these farmers moved into the surrounding countryside, with large groups settling in the places such as Bucks and Berks Counties and Northumberland (in the area of modern day Lancaster). These people Duetsch (German) in their language, but as often happens, outsiders heard it as Dutch and the name stuck.
Reply
post #21 of 29
8/15/02 at 5:09am

Pukka Tikka

Pongi you are absolutely correct about Chicken Tikka Masala. The original Indian dish, Chicken Tikka, was considered too dry for British palates (they wanted some kind of "gravy" or sauce) so some of the stock sauce a tomato masala was added to moisten it. Now, although invented in Britain it has travelled back to the sub-continent and you can now get Tikka Masala inplaces like Bombay and Delhi.

While we're on the topic "curry" as such is unknown in India, they have specific dishes which we in the Western world tend to lump together as generic "curries". Although cuisine in the States varies a bit by geography - Southern, Californian, New England, Tex-Mex etc, in the sub-continent there many more different cuisines with quite different approaches to cooking.
True of Italy also from North to South.

One more food not found in its "home" is Spaghetti Bolognese, yes in Bologna they make the eponymous sauce but they would never dream of putting it on spaghetti but on ribbon noodles such as tagliatelle.
Reply
post #22 of 29
8/15/02 at 1:06pm
Britcook,

Their "Bolognese" is a lot thicker too, I mean a lot meatier.
Reply
post #23 of 29
8/16/02 at 5:47am
Thread Starter 
We had a funny thread about Ragù alla Bolognese some time ago.
As Kimmie said, the original "Bolognese" calls for a very small amount of tomato sauce, being a lot meatier than the American versions.
Generally speaking, I must say, all the American pasta sauces tend to contain too much tomato for the Italian palates...
Britcook, you're correct, formerly the Ragù alla Bolognese was intended to be served only with Tagliatelle or Lasagne. Afterwards it became so popular that now you can find it everywhere in Italy, served with any type of pasta, spaghetti and ravioli included...but it's an improper use (and also the sauce is often improper)
You're also right about Italy, our food cultures are so different from North to South that you could imagine to have a meal in different continents! We range from the Austrian-like cooking of Alto Adige from the Arab dishes (couscous included) of Sicily...

Pongi
Reply
post #24 of 29
8/16/02 at 6:27am
To Britcook and Pete -

Not to belabor a point, but---------

http://www.netherlands-embassy.org/c_townname.html

U.S. TOWNS AND CITIES WITH DUTCH NAMES
The Dutch West India Company settled a large parcel of land in the eastern United States, which in the 1600's became known as New Netherland. The borders of New Netherland would have stretched, in modern times, from southern Delaware through New Jersey and east-central Pennsylvania into eastern and central New York, including Long Island and Manhattan. The Dutch influence on these areas is still felt today, and many towns and cities in the U.S. were named after the towns from which the Dutch settlers had emigrated.


http://www.geocities.com/oldebucks/dutch.html

The Low Dutch Community
of Bucks County Pennsylvania

During the 15th and 16th centuries it was a common practice of the English to refer to all persons of Germanic heritage as "Dutch" or "Dutch-men", with the only occasional distinction made being that between "low" and "high". The term "Low" Dutch was sometimes used to signify those persons of Netherland-ish descent, while "High" Dutch referred to Germans and the Swiss. It was not until the latter part of the 17th century that the current distinction between Dutch and German began to come into use. Most of the "Dutch" settlers in southeastern Pennsylvania, including Bucks county, were in fact German. There was, however, a well established Low Dutch community in lower Bucks county. This community was comprised mainly of settlers and the descendants of settlers from the Netherlands, many of whom came into Pennsylvania through New Jersey from New York. It is in reference to these "Hollanders", rather than the German or "Pennsylvania Dutch" communities, that the term "Dutch" is applied throughout this site
Reply
post #25 of 29
8/17/02 at 4:35pm
Canadian Tart, a British speciality:confused:
Reply
post #26 of 29
8/18/02 at 8:03am

My Dutch Uncle!

Well there you go Marmalady, I love it when these little snippets of info surface! I knew about New York formerly being Nieuw Amsterdam and the story of Peter Stuyvesant etc. I don't doubt the descendants of these early settlers are still around, but the German "Dutch" outnumber the Hollanders by a fair margin.
Reply
post #27 of 29
8/18/02 at 8:13am
Britcook, Didn't mean to sound as tho I was 'rubbing it in', but I knew Dutch folk when I was growing up in Pennsylvania - and also knew a lot of the town names, and such, as well as architecture, were Dutch in origin, not German.

You are right, tho, the German 'Pennsylvania Dutch' are much more common.
Reply
post #28 of 29
8/18/02 at 9:09am
...and I always thought they were Dutch.Thanks for the lesson, marm!
Reply
post #29 of 29
8/18/02 at 1:39pm

Knowledge is king

No Marmalady, didn't feel I had been adversely rubbed, I find this "real" (people as opposed to battles and stuff) history fascinating. I've a great interest in Dutch stuff, and as a bit of a non-sequitur apparently the brickwork in our cellar is "Flemish bond", using the techniques of Huguenot settlers who manufactured bricks round here in the 18th century (cellar dates from around 1770, although the main house is "modern" dating from around 1823).
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
ChefTalk.com › ChefTalk Cooking Forums › Food and Cooking Forums › Food & Cooking Questions and Discussion › How many food "specialties" are unknown in the country they're believed to come from?