or Connect
ChefTalk.com › ChefTalk Cooking Forums › Food & Equipment Reviews › Cooking Knife Reviews › Honing device recommendation for Kikuichi?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Honing device recommendation for Kikuichi?

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 

Hi.  First post here so apologies in advance if a similar topic to this has been covered before.  I searched but I know I'm a little beyond my depth.

 

So I'm a lucky guy.   My wife surprised me today with a  Kikuichi 210 mm Damascus Gyuto.  Thankfully it was a boxed gift and not waved in my face for too many late nights out!.....  

 

I'm a home cooking enthusiast with some classes but no formal training under my belt.   My current main  knives are some 15+ year old Henckel 4 Stars that are still serving me well and one or two Shuns.   A while back I had the angles reduced on the Henckels  to 15 degrees (a two stage reduction in the bevel)  and I've been honing all on a MinoSharp.   For me I've had good results. 

 

I know enough to know I need a new upkeep and sharpening strategy for the Kikuichi.  First things first I need a device to hone it properly between use.   Then I can figure out how I'm going to sharpen.

 

Does this seem like the right approach or would someone have a better strategy for me?   

 

As to either question if someone could point me to the right equipment to do it properly I'd appreciate that as well..

 

Thanks.....


Edited by LIRob - 6/3/14 at 6:10pm
post #2 of 17

First of all, change it for a 240 mm.

Gebe Gott uns allen, uns Trinkern, einen so leichten und so schönen Tod! Joseph Roth.
Reply
Gebe Gott uns allen, uns Trinkern, einen so leichten und so schönen Tod! Joseph Roth.
Reply
post #3 of 17

I'd prefer a 240mm also because I use a pinch grip and a 210 would work more like a 6-7 inch knife which is not long enough.  That said, it's a great gift!  You should use it and love it. 

 

Just to clarify, are you talking about the Warikomi Damascus (VG10) or the Swedish Warikomi Damascus (AEBL)?  I have a goko damascus gyuto in 19c27, which I'm told is not far from AEBL.  It looks a lot like a clone of the kikuichi swedish damascus; definitely a laser.  I don't use a hone on it at all, just strop sometimes until it needs sharpening.

 

I can't say about your knife for sure, but many japanese knives start with not the best possible sharpening.  It's like the maker has an apprentice or someone sharpen an initial bevel for you, but it's really up to the home user to it.  You might have to learn water stone sharpening sooner.  There are a lot of videos out there about both free hand and using a jig.

 

I'll say that I got my first gyuto 3 months ago, and I learned free hand sharpening from internet videos.  It's the cheapest option and not all that hard.  Sounds like you have a lot of knives to practice on too!

post #4 of 17
Thread Starter 

Thanks.  Hmm...  exchanging gift would mean exchanging the wife too...   Think I'll keep the 210.  Wife's prettier than the knife and all the good attorneys are her friends.   *wink*  

 

Seriously, already have 3 10" Henckels for the heavy work.   I'll be at least fine with the 210 while I learn.  Can always decide whether to add another 240 and what to add later.

 

 

Back to honing/care.   It's a Warikomi Damascus (VG10)  WGAD 21-08-0sp.  You say you just strop?  Hadn't thought about that seems like a good idea.  Will research it.    Good point on the initial edge as well.  Wasn't too stressed about it though; am confident I can find a competent sharpener in the NY area...    [that said I know I'm going to end up learning how to freehand or to buy a jig.]

 

Appreciate the help and completely open to and and all additional advice.

post #5 of 17

I've a similar knife, the Togiharu Damascus (also VG10)

Just work with a #1000 waterstone and strop on a home made leather strop.

You will not find many Minosharp aficionados here. 

Gebe Gott uns allen, uns Trinkern, einen so leichten und so schönen Tod! Joseph Roth.
Reply
Gebe Gott uns allen, uns Trinkern, einen so leichten und so schönen Tod! Joseph Roth.
Reply
post #6 of 17
You won't completely eliminate a VG-10 burr with a 1k stone, and don't expect it to come off by stropping without leaving a damaged edge behind. The burr needs to get abraded instead. Get a 5k stone.
post #7 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benuser View Post

You won't completely eliminate a VG-10 burr with a 1k stone, and don't expect it to come off by stropping without leaving a damaged edge behind. The burr needs to get abraded instead. Get a 5k stone.

 

Sorry to disagree. I already have it, a nice #5000 Naniwa Chosera SS. Almoste never use it anymore and my edges are pretty OK. 

Gebe Gott uns allen, uns Trinkern, einen so leichten und so schönen Tod! Joseph Roth.
Reply
Gebe Gott uns allen, uns Trinkern, einen so leichten und so schönen Tod! Joseph Roth.
Reply
post #8 of 17
Let's try not to overwhelm the OP with too much debate on what's the best maintenance method, and consider discussing that there ate several options in keeping the edge "tuned" and then also several options to consider when it comes time to actually sharpen.

I have used several different methods with good results on different steels etc and it really comes down to what your comfortable with or personal preference and just works for a particular knife.

I admit I don't have a lot of experience with a loaded leather strop, and though I do plan to experiment with one etc I have had good experience with everything from a ceramic hone, a high grit whetstone, balsa, wet sandpaper, and more with varying degrees of success depending on the steel, angles, and even how polished the edge is.

One thing is for sure is that this knife will be very different than the others you have and will need to be sharpened at a much more acute angle, and the VG10 will accept a much higher polishing, hold it longer, and on most use benefit from it much more than your other knives.

Two of the things I most enjoy about my Japanese knives overt my old Germans is how they cut so much better when sharpened properly, and even after they have dulled some are still very usable. It's a combination of the improved steel, thinner blades, reduced angles, and thinness behind the edge that is all a result of what can be done with better and harder steels.

IMHO I would recommend trying a highly polished (6-10k) edge to allow you to experience the true difference even though it will work fine at 1k.

 

"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

Reply

 

"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

Reply
post #9 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by MillionsKnives View Post

 

 

Just to clarify, are you talking about the Warikomi Damascus (VG10) or the Swedish Warikomi Damascus (AEBL)?  I have a goko damascus gyuto in 19c27, which I'm told is not far from AEBL.  It looks a lot like a clone of the kikuichi swedish damascus; definitely a laser.  I don't use a hone on it at all, just strop sometimes until it needs sharpening.

 

Just shows you I am getting off to a slow start this morning.  19c27 is a semi-stainless similar and perhaps even identical to what Konosukei uses in their HD series.  It should show itself to take an edge about as well and easy as good AEB-L, and also hold an edge significantly better. Being semi-stainless though it will patina.

 

 

Rick

post #10 of 17

I looked it up, and you're right!  I assumed that since 19c27 is called 'Swedish Stainless' that it was actually stainless.  It has 13.5% chromium so technically only semi stainless (but it's very close to the generally accepted 14%). For all intents and purposes, I treat it as a stainless.  Anyway mine is clad in a softer stainless so i won't see any patina at all except at the edge.

 

Sharpening was easy, and I'd say edge retention is pretty good.  I cook daily and haven't needed to strop, hone, or sharpen this gyuto in 2 months.  Then again, I have so many task specific knives that I only use it for vegatable chopping.

post #11 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by MillionsKnives View Post
 

I looked it up, and you're right!  I assumed that since 19c27 is called 'Swedish Stainless' that it was actually stainless.  It has 13.5% chromium so technically only semi stainless (but it's very close to the generally accepted 14%). For all intents and purposes, I treat it as a stainless.  Anyway mine is clad in a softer stainless so i won't see any patina at all except at the edge.

 

Sharpening was easy, and I'd say edge retention is pretty good.  I cook daily and haven't needed to strop, hone, or sharpen this gyuto in 2 months.  Then again, I have so many task specific knives that I only use it for vegatable chopping.

for what its worth, stainless is actually commonly held to be above 11% chromium. 19c27 is indeed a stainless steel.  However, there are a number of things that can effect stainless-ness aside from chromium.  For example, the amount of carbon relative to chromium and the way the knife has been heat treated.

 

also...

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Rick Allen
 
Just shows you I am getting off to a slow start this morning.  19c27 is a semi-stainless similar and perhaps even identical to what Konosukei uses in their HD series.  It should show itself to take an edge about as well and easy as good AEB-L, and also hold an edge significantly better. Being semi-stainless though it will patina.

 19c27 is not particularly fine grained, unlike its lower carbon brother... see here:

http://www.smt.sandvik.com/en/products/strip-steel/strip-products/knife-steel/sandvik-knife-steels/sandvik-19c27/

post #12 of 17

..


Edited by Vic Cardenas - 7/4/14 at 11:40pm
post #13 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBroida View Post
 

for what its worth, stainless is actually commonly held to be above 11% chromium. 19c27 is indeed a stainless steel.  However, there are a number of things that can effect stainless-ness aside from chromium.  For example, the amount of carbon relative to chromium and the way the knife has been heat treated.

 

also...

 19c27 is not particularly fine grained, unlike its lower carbon brother... see here:

http://www.smt.sandvik.com/en/products/strip-steel/strip-products/knife-steel/sandvik-knife-steels/sandvik-19c27/

 

Thanks for the correction and useful link Jon, I'd be curious what you think Konosuke is using for steel in their HD series.

 

 

Rick

post #14 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Alan View Post
 

 

Thanks for the correction and useful link Jon, I'd be curious what you think Konosuke is using for steel in their HD series.

 

 

Rick

having carried their knives in the past and knowing them personally kind of stops me from saying what it is... they want to keep it a secret

post #15 of 17
Is this the same 19c27 or Sweedish stainless steel that I had been led to believe Tojiro used in their DP line prior to changing to VG10?

 

"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

Reply

 

"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

Reply
post #16 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by LennyD View Post

Is this the same 19c27 or Sweedish stainless steel that I had been led to believe Tojiro used in their DP line prior to changing to VG10?

there arent many types of steel called 19c27.  That being said, i dont recall tojiro using 19c27 as their core steel on the DP line, but i could be wrong.

post #17 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBroida View Post

there arent many types of steel called 19c27.  That being said, i dont recall tojiro using 19c27 as their core steel on the DP line, but i could be wrong.

Jon

Thanks for the info.

I honestly do not remember exactly, but back when I was first researching j knives there were still some online sellers showing the core steel to be something different than vg10 which was said to be the steel used in the older products.

From memory they switched due to excessive chipping issues, and since picking up an older used DP Sujihiki I can attest to this and also that it is very different than the others I have that are VG10 etc.

I will try and see if I can find any information, but so far nothing lol.

Also I have no idea what your friends at Konosuke use on their HD, but it's about the nicest steel to sharpen.

 

"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

Reply

 

"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Cooking Knife Reviews
ChefTalk.com › ChefTalk Cooking Forums › Food & Equipment Reviews › Cooking Knife Reviews › Honing device recommendation for Kikuichi?