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Chef, Santoku, Utility, And Pairing Knives for Untrained Home Cook Under $400.00 For Everything - Page 4

post #91 of 118
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Kinogie View Post
 

Honestly, I think people who are brand new to carbon are overly worried about reactivity when they're home cooks only, unless of course they personally do not like the look of patina. I know I was very nervous about it when I first thought about jumping into the carbon world but now at this point I live and die by carbon, although I still want a SS or clad Gyuto as my "tying one on while cooking" or "brought knife to a friend's house" blade. Also, if I still cooked for a living I'd be weary of carbon depending on my position, the size of the kitchen/prep areas and my fellow employees. Too much risk for someone to pick your knife up and mess it up. But at home that is much less a concern.

 

Unless you wind up leaving your knife soaking wet for long periods of time, in most cases they won't truly rust and even if they do as long as you scrub it with a coarse sponge and a baking soda slurry or maybe some BKF soon after the initial surface rust presents itself, it's not hard to remove. It is true it's better to give them a light mineral oil coating before putting them away though, but really the upkeep needed is only to wipe them frequently while in use, especially in between different ingredients and wipe them dry if they're going to be sitting there for minutes on end on the board while you're tackling other prep tasks.

 

The thing that has to be accepted and embraced though, is all of them will patina and some much more aggressively than others... and different steels, both flavors of and within a certain type between different manufactures, will give a different look and color of patina sometimes. One such example is Masakage Shimo's sometimes get a rep for producing very yellow patina's, which many people seem to dislike, but other White #1's from different smiths may not and likely will give more blues, oranges and greys, although a lot if not most of patina color is also what ingredients you're cutting.

Yes matter of fact my plan if I get carbon blades, which I think I will, is to force a mustard patina. I ready a couple articles and threads on how to do it and the patterns one can get are cool it seems like its very simple to do.

post #92 of 118

 

 

 

IDK that these pics do it justice, my camera consists only of my camera phone, but this is the patina on my KS right now.

post #93 of 118
@Tom Wilson I would recommend blue #2 over aogami super for you. A little less chippy and easier to sharpen.

I think your budget is getting out of control! There are a lot of great knives between $150 and $250. I'm no slouch at knife skills or sharpening, and my most expensve knife cost $150. I would never spend over 250 and the best knife for me is only $400. At some point, the performance plateaus and you're paying for looks and collector prestige. Until you refine cutting and sharpening technique you might not see a performance improvement from $150 to 250.

I recommend you re establsh budget at $200 max for your gyuto, $150 for a good end grain cutting board, $100 for stones. Ditch the petty for now, and do all your cutting with a gyuto. I used nothing but a chef's for four years; it's possible. Never a paring unless you are doing frilly garnishes.
post #94 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by MillionsKnives View Post

@Tom Wilson I would recommend blue #2 over aogami super for you. A little less chippy and easier to sharpen.

I think your budget is getting out of control! There are a lot of great knives between $150 and $250. I'm no slouch at knife skills or sharpening, and my most expensve knife cost $150. I would never spend over 250 and the best knife for me is only $400. At some point, the performance plateaus and you're paying for looks and collector prestige. Until you refine cutting and sharpening technique you might not see a performance improvement from $150 to 250.

I recommend you re establsh budget at $200 max for your gyuto, $150 for a good end grain cutting board, $100 for stones. Ditch the petty for now, and do all your cutting with a gyuto. I used nothing but a chef's for four years; it's possible. Never a paring unless you are doing frilly garnishes.

Eh, if he's got the money to burn, I'd say burn motherF'er, let it burn! :lol:

 

The only thing I'd say is I don't know I'd love learning how to freehand sharpen with a knife that nice($400+ range), although personally I feel average level sharpening skills come super quick, at least for me, it's improving beyond average that will take years and years.

 

I would highly recommend again to check out the Buy/Sell/Trade Board on www.kitchenknifeforums.com as well as the classifieds section on CKTG and the Trading Forum on here. You can get a beautiful second hand knife for maybe 75% of it's cost new at worst on these boards. There is some really nice stuff up there on KKF's right now, haven't checked CKTG or Cheftalk's in a few days though.

post #95 of 118
I've bought a knife off kkf for $110 that I value at least $200. Only thing is I had to fix some of the sharpening. I can't say if it was like that from the original owner or the vendor though. The point is if I didn't have sharpening skills it might have been more of an issue.
post #96 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by MillionsKnives View Post

I've bought a knife off kkf for $110 that I value at least $200. Only thing is I had to fix some of the sharpening. I can't say if it was like that from the original owner or the vendor though. The point is if I didn't have sharpening skills it might have been more of an issue.


Did you know that when you bought the knife though, or you were duped by the seller?

 

I would agree though, there is inherit risk or even expected maintenance when buying a secondhand knife. Personally, I scored 2 pretty amazing deals, one off KKF, the other off here/CKTG.

 

One thing to remember to give the other side of the coin though, is a lot of the even high end J-knives, in the $150+ range, even all the way into the $300's often come pretty dull OOTB new, at least in comparison to price point expectations. You even need to open those up with at least a 4K to 6K stone or a good stropping to make it shine, if not a light full progressive sharpening starting at a lower grit.

post #97 of 118

Nothing bad like that, no warp, no rust.  Maybe I expect too much out of 'Senior Members' on that forum. The heel was overground (i think vendor).  The bevel was uneven, especially on the left side.  That one is user error.  It works fine after one session on the stones, I'm not going to wear away steel unnecessarily. I fixed the bevel, and In another two sharpenings, the heel part will be normal.

post #98 of 118
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Kinogie View Post
 

Eh, if he's got the money to burn, I'd say burn motherF'er, let it burn! :lol:

 

The only thing I'd say is I don't know I'd love learning how to freehand sharpen with a knife that nice($400+ range), although personally I feel average level sharpening skills come super quick, at least for me, it's improving beyond average that will take years and years.

 

I would highly recommend again to check out the Buy/Sell/Trade Board on www.kitchenknifeforums.com as well as the classifieds section on CKTG and the Trading Forum on here. You can get a beautiful second hand knife for maybe 75% of it's cost new at worst on these boards. There is some really nice stuff up there on KKF's right now, haven't checked CKTG or Cheftalk's in a few days though.

 

Thanks for repeating this recommendation - I've finally listened and found 3 used knives I'm interested in. Including some that have been highly recommended here.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MillionsKnives View Post

I've bought a knife off kkf for $110 that I value at least $200. Only thing is I had to fix some of the sharpening. I can't say if it was like that from the original owner or the vendor though. The point is if I didn't have sharpening skills it might have been more of an issue

None of the ones I've found are this good of a deal, but still a considerable better price than new.

post #99 of 118
Tom, isn't it fun finding your way through all of this lol.

We all seem to find our own way eventually, and from what I have seen those of us who put in the time seem to be happy with the outcome more often.

The last few knives pictured were all very nice ones, but like mentioned earlier I wouldn't want to scratch any of them up developing my sharpening skills. I'm sure if I was still in the trade it wouldn't be an issue but I still shake my head at some of the sharpening goof ups when I look at them lol. It's no biggie, the scratches are small etc, but those were all sub $100 knives and I'm not sure I would feel the same if say they they were $350+

One bit of advice is that if you end up trying not to scratch any of these there is a really good chance you will be holding the blade at to high an angle (some of these are very acute) and end up with a dull knife.

Also now that you have had a chance to learn about some of the different knives and the various pluses and minuses etc I think you may find it helpful to take a breath and consider what things are really important to you.

That would include what you will be cutting, your grip, your new thoughts on sharpening, handles, layers or San mai, finish, vendor (online, local or foreign) steel etc etc etc.

Your going to need to have more to go on than what CKTG has in Stock, consider exactly what your getting for your money, and more to help you get an idea of a short listdo you El be able to finally pull the trigger on one of these very nice knives your considering.

Also though I understand the idea behind not getting a petty I also disagree because they are inexpensive enough and if you get one in a different steel it will expand your learning etc

 

"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

Reply

 

"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

Reply
post #100 of 118

Just picked up one of these at CTG

I found the fit and finish to be excellent. It's a very good looking knife. Good Sharpness OTB. It's a Kouetsu 120 mm Hap 40 petty I have used it quite a bit in the last week and am quite pleased with it.   http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kohape12.html

Kohetsu HAP40 Petty 120mm

post #101 of 118
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uriah Heep View Post
 

Just picked up one of these at CTG

I found the fit and finish to be excellent. It's a very good looking knife. Good Sharpness OTB. It's a Kouetsu 120 mm Hap 40 petty I have used it quite a bit in the last week and am quite pleased with it.   http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kohape12.html

Kohetsu HAP40 Petty 120mm

 

Very nice!

post #102 of 118
Thread Starter 


This morning I pulled the trigger on a Anryu Hammered Gyuto 240mm over at CKTG. I still have to pick a petty and sharpening gear, and Idahone. I pulled the trigger on this knife, before anything else, because someone else let me know they were going to buy it if I didn't and I didn't want to lose the opportunity.

 

 

I'm not too thrilled with the blue green handle. By the way is handle replacement very difficult?

 

That knife was bit more expensive than I originally planned, but I believe from all advice here and over at CKTG this is the optimal choice. 

 

For sharpening gear I was planning on purchasing a Shapton Pro 2k & 5k, a Diamond Flattening Plate, and sink bridge. However, CKTG is out of stock on the 2k stone. Someone suggested 1.5k as an alternative, but I've read they don't do quite as good a job as the 2k. What do you all think?


Edited by Tom Wilson - 7/29/14 at 5:06pm
post #103 of 118

You might find a 2K a bit to fine and close to the 5K The Bester 1200 has a good reputation. As far as color a bit of sanding and a nice stain can fix that.

post #104 of 118
The shapton numbers are misleading. Shapton cuts like lower grit stones. I use the 2k as my medium stone. I have the 1k for minor repair. I think amazon had the 2k for $6 more. Btw the shapton box doubles as a stone holder. It works well enough.

Was the anryu used off the forum or new? Wa handles are easier to replace. Hold it flush to a block of wood then hammer the wood to pop it off.
post #105 of 118
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uriah Heep View Post
 

You might find a 2K a bit to fine and close to the 5K The Bester 1200 has a good reputation. As far as color a bit of sanding and a nice stain can fix that.

What grits of paper would you suggest to sand the handle. Its been many years since I've done any woodworking at all.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by MillionsKnives View Post

The shapton numbers are misleading. Shapton cuts like lower grit stones. I use the 2k as my medium stone. I have the 1k for minor repair. I think amazon had the 2k for $6 more. Btw the shapton box doubles as a stone holder. It works well enough.

Was the anryu used off the forum or new? Wa handles are easier to replace. Hold it flush to a block of wood then hammer the wood to pop it off.

The Anyru was new. If you are wanting one they still had one yesterday.

post #106 of 118

Good luck with the new knife man! That handle is kind of gross though lol. Let us know how you like it once you get it and put it through it's paces.

post #107 of 118

Depends on the handle material and the finish. If wood and the color is surface or deep and how much material you are willing to shed. I would do a test on the flat back end of the handle with a light application of 220 grit. If its a deep penetration you might consider a darker finish on top of the original. If the finish is thin I would do the removal with 150 grit or so then go to 220  then wet the wood to raise the grain another light sanding followed by oil based stain using rag cloth "I protect my hands with latex gloves" to the depth of color you want then apply a coat of oil base poly in mat or gloss. Of course any change is a risk so be sure your are willing to take one.

post #108 of 118

I'd leave the handle as is and get used to the knife first.  You know - just in case.

post #109 of 118
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Kinogie View Post
 

Good luck with the new knife man! That handle is kind of gross though lol...

LOL

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike9 View Post
 

I'd leave the handle as is and get used to the knife first.  You know - just in case.

Blue/Green is one of favorite colors so perhaps it will grow on me.:smoking:

 

Just in case though, I've found a place that sells handles at a very reasonable price, what size handle does a 240mm Gyuto take if I decide to replace it?

post #110 of 118
I always liked the hammered look, but I hope that handle color grows on you lol

I remember you saying something about going against the grain or popular opinion in a previous post, and this does support that statement that's for sure.

Hope you enjoy it!

 

"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

Reply

 

"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

Reply
post #111 of 118
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LennyD View Post

I always liked the hammered look, but I hope that handle color grows on you lol

I remember you saying something about going against the grain or popular opinion in a previous post, and this does support that statement that's for sure.

Hope you enjoy it!

 

I feel very confident about the knife, but have a feeling I'll be changing out that handle for something a little more understated. I'm typically a non-conformist, but that handle is a little much even for me. I said I want this to be my last knife purchase, but I never said anything about handles.:D

post #112 of 118
Try it out for a little with a pinch grip befor you upgrade. It should be a good baseline to see if you like octagon handles and you can compare the size of your next handle to this one. I have octagonal, oval, and d shaped on my knives. I think D shaped is most comfortable and octagonal looks cool but is too blocky. I have ho wood, ichii, chestnut, and rosewood. If I was paying for custom, I'd spring a couple bucks for ironwood or koa.
post #113 of 118

tell us when you get the knife and congrats :D

post #114 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by MillionsKnives View Post

Try it out for a little with a pinch grip befor you upgrade. It should be a good baseline to see if you like octagon handles and you can compare the size of your next handle to this one. I have octagonal, oval, and d shaped on my knives. I think D shaped is most comfortable and octagonal looks cool but is too blocky. I have ho wood, ichii, chestnut, and rosewood. If I was paying for custom, I'd spring a couple bucks for ironwood or koa.

I have to agree with the idea of upgrading to a higher end or nicer wood, but personally don't have as large an opinion on the handle style when it comes to a gyuto as say with a petty or slicer where you are always holding the handle etc.

 

"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

Reply

 

"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

Reply
post #115 of 118

So what's the good word?

post #116 of 118

Not sure if you already purchased your set. But I was in the same boat as you and ended up buying Mac Pro after doing extensive reading, mostly post by BDL.

 

Some good reading which led me to get Mac Pro:

 

 

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post #117 of 118

post #118 of 118

There's absolutely no need of any sense of urgency here.  Even if the OP gets back to us in a year, or more, that will be soon enough.

 

 

Rick

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