Mid life "Career" crisis.

Wow Brad, I didn't know. That is one thing I hate about this career. I got out of the cheffing end about 14 yrs ago only to get back in 3 yrs ago. I went to work for a food dist. here on the west coast as a food salesman. I had alot of fun made some good money and more importantly made some really good friends. On the down side the hrs are about the same if you want to be successful. On the up side you can decide when you want to work the extra 20 or so a week. In the 11+ yrs I never missed any holiday or anything special w/ my wife and kids. Brad, one of your Biggest attributes is your knowledge. You can't teach that type of knowledge over night. Think back to the number of times you educated your salesperson. You also seem friendly and full of life two other needed qualities. While I'm not tring to sell you on being a salesperson I just thought I'd throw it out there for thought. There is alot more that goes into it but if you're interested leave me a e-mail and I'll get back to you w/ my cell #.
On another note my partners and I are in the early planning stages of a food and wine school and resort. Overlooking the Pacific to the west and Edna valley to the east. When it happens we'll be looking for teachers but unfortunately it is at least 10 yrs away at this point. I'd also think about wine sales the hrs are not as long and you get to drink free wine. Huge Bonus:D . I don't know about the money though. Good luck. Take your time. Maybe take one of those career classes at your local JC see what you are wired for.

P.S. How are you doing w/ your back?

Brad, Brad, Brad, oh do I feel for you. I know exactly what you are up against. I offer my support and 2 cents.
First off, I have mixed feelings about sales. I was in sales for 5 years. I loved it and hated it. The hours can be ridiculous and the paychecks oft times non existant. Some freedom of travel balanced by boredom.
As Fodigger said, with your knowledge and experience it's just a matter of where to put it.
First consider coming up with a book idea and shopping it around. (Thankfully there are editors and spellcheck programs to help you! ;) )
Also I know in CT there are several culinary courses. Perhaps you could teach. Also as you mentioned consider consulting and menu development. There are many companes that do that. A search on the computer, even in your own yellow pages under food consultants might yield something.
Daycooking. Companies that have their own kitchens and food outlets so you have daytime cooking. School foodservice. Not the caliber you're used to, but an easy job.
I'm a little stuck right now, but there's a lot more. I'll let you know as I think of it.

Brad,as you have a considerable amount of experience and knowledge,you should be able to pick and choose.
I am sure you also have excellent communication skills,which would be invaluable if you took up teaching at a college/academy.
There are some positive points as well as negative points.Some students really try your patience,others take to cooking like a duck to water.One key aspect of teaching is that you are helping to develop the chefs of the future.You may find that your hours become more stable,hopefully.
On the other hand,i`m sure that there are food companies that are looking for development chefs.Your extensive skills would be very useful as most people are always looking for something different.I hope that someone recognises the plain fact that you have a heck of a lot to offer.
Best wishes,Leo.:chef:

Cape Chef thats rough try hopitalityrecuiters.com sorry I didn't provide a link. Good luck they gave me a lead but couldn't take it ,
because of family.

Isn't that the greatest hurrdle, really? Brad, you and I have had this discussion when I was scouring the job scene (and continue to do so). I think we really find the position that suits us best when we find some inner strength from the job. Not trying to sound overly spiritual, but I think we thrive in an atmosphere that is enriching, enlightening and challenging. There needs to be visceral stimuli, rather than just work. For most folks, a job can be just that; a place to go a few hours a day. When there is a creative flame that is not yet snuffed-out, you need a position that gives reason to use brain power and some cause & effect; perhaps a position that will 'leave a mark'. I'm rambling.

Yes, yes........that sounds like CC. I personally think he would make a darn good teacher but I can't really see him tied to a desk in a school somewhere. I believe that would quickly get boring and very unstimulating. (I hope that's a word. :eek: ) I also can't see him as a salesman. I think he'd like it for a year or two and THEN it would become boring. I just can't see CC without his hands elbow deep in the food preparation part of the biz.

Maybe you should open your own little place, CC? You would be the Chef/Owner and the creative energy of the place....train your sous well, set your hours and spend some time discovering culinary finds (all sorts of fresh produce, etc.) and making nice simple dishes, which are intricate in flavor? From the recipes you've posted that I've read.......you are a very creative and darn good chef. :bounce:

Anyhoo, you don't HAVE to do anything just now. RELAX AND ENJOY the little vacation from the commercial kitchen. Make some food for once that pleases only you and invite some of us over for dinner. ;)

Jodi

Gee Brad, that's a bunch of crummy luck; loosing your job along with the health problem. I know you will be able to make a shift, but take your time to figure out what will be as rewarding to you as chef work.
I suggest you join the IACP (International Association of Culinary Professionals). The membership is extensive, from chefs to food manufacturers, to distributors, food writers, stylists, consultants and on and on. The yearly conferences have all kinds of workshops from which you can gain very useful information and network with people from every facet of the food industry. The conference in April 2003 will be held in Montreal--should be lots of fun.
You may also want to consider working as a chef for a specialty food retailer. When I made the shift away from the restaurant kitchen I found quite a number of available jobs in this sector. Although I didn't make quite as much money, the hours were considerably better, as well as benefits, holidays, and most have profit sharing ESOP plans.
R&D and test kitchen work can be another option for you, however, in my experience, former chefs have difficulty working in such stringent environments. Every measurement must be exact, as well as any process notes. Understanding of market audience is also key to this work and chefs tend to balk when faced with the questions "Can you get this ingredient in Paduka?" or "Can a homemaker who cooks for 5 on a combined income of $40,000/year afford Jamon de Serrano at $24/pound?" Not that you, per se, would have this kind of trouble; just know what you are in for if you pursue this track.
You may also want to pick up a copy of "Careers for Gourmets and Other Who Relish Food" by Mary Donovan. I've found it helpful.

Good Luck


PS: PM me if you would like to talk more about this. I have some other contacts that might help, but feel the need to protect them somewhat.

dear cape chef,
what rotten timing, your back and no job! are you out on comp? unemployment? maybe you could get some funding to go back to school.
when i went into sales a few years ago, i loved it. but unfortunately with my kids i couldn't give as many hours as needed. did you try for corporate chef positions within a food service corp? like at kraft. i don't know about cirelli, and there is also springfield foods in the area. sysco is in taunton that's about an hr from me , i don't know how close you are.
i had an offer from one of the top guys from sysco a few years ago, but.... kids needing one parent at least. they always need people who actually know how to work with their products.
how about teaching at a voke school? i had a friend go into that and he loves it. he has summers off and does some cash gigs - catering. money's not the highest, but not the lowest either.
i wish you the best, i went back to school at 35 and 40 and did much better than when i was a juvenile delinquent. if you ahve any questions about going back feel free to pm me.
kat

Wow Brad, I had no idea! Thought you were merely on sick-leave!

Hey you're such a comedian, you would do great with your own cooking show on the Food Network. Watch-out Emeril...! ;)

Cape Chef, our friends here have shared some good ideas.
Writing a book, yes, and teaching.
I have difficulty in picturing you somewhere far away from the kicthen.
From yoour posts it's obvious that you are blessed with the talent to make people happy the moment they put the fork in their mouth.
Also I still recall this post of yours about this day at work when you were without electricity. I could almost feel your excitement.
Working 15 years in 12 hours a day shift are a lot, but think it the other way. Some people are made to accomplish what to others, seem impossible.
It seems that you are one of those and since your posts show that when it comes to cooking, there is no limit for you, stick to your kitchen my friend. You are so young, there is plenty of time for you to write books and give lectures.
Good luck.

V.

Dear Brad,

I'm so sorry to hear that you've been going through so much. But it's heartening to read all these wonderful suggestions. You've inspired a lot of support (not surprising). Anyway, as a non-pro, all I can do is add my good wishes for your next adventure.
But as a teacher, I can smell a natural a mile away and I'm thinking you'd be great. I sense you have the patience and the humor along with the expertise and artistry to make a fanstastic teacher in a cooking or trade school (where you'd get to work in a kitchen environment, at least). And as a teacher you'd get benefits!!! (something I don't think a lot of chefs get). And, as others have said earlier, the hours are better in terms of family. Please don't cringe, folks, but I get the impression that going to cooking school has replaced getting a real estate license for people who've discovered they don't like the careers they're in. So there have got to be more and more schools opening up.
In addition, you seem interested in (and clearly have read a lot about) food history and culture. Why not pitch this as an extra skill? If you need any help making a sample syllabus (or editing that book you should write ;) ) just let me know.

All the best,

Brad, I have to agree. You are so inspired and inspirING when you cook in the kitchen. From what I know about you, what you need is total creative freedom, in a structured serious work environment, with reasonable compensation, so you won't have to worry about providing for your family.

That rules out sales-- It's not creative enough for the artistic side of you.

Teaching would be nice, but would it take care of your family? Probably not, with the local choices that you have. And how can you hold your breath for those jobs with the Fall semester coming up??

Private cheffing is nice, but you'd have to pay your own health insurance. And no paid sick or vacation days. But that might be a stimulating 2nd job.

Same is true for catering.

Business owner takes capital, and ability to take risk.

Cookbook author (or some other food related book)--Now THERE is something I can see! While it does take capital, and there IS substantial risk, you can certainly start working on it while you're recovering, and you can probably make a serious dent in the difficult beginning stages. I believe you'd be extremely successful-- and something tells me that Foodnfoto can give you some advice on that front.

And of course there are dozens of corporate sites, much like the one you just came from. Connecticut and Westchester are teeming with places like that. Only you would know whether that could still be challenging, after 15 years in that kind of environment. Sometimes, a simple change in surrounding, with new colleagues, is all it takes to re-awaken your enthusiasm. Other times, you need a complete rehaul of your career and a direction change.

Perhaps you can work on the book, while doing some catering and personal/private chef work. And maybe you can also mix in some short-term cooking classes. You'd get a lot of variety, you'd be able to work a schedule that suits your life, and you might find something that you really love!

Call me if you need help.

Celebrating our 6th year in business.

If you have it in you, open your own business. Ownership isn't for everyone, but I would'nt trade all of my problems for anyone elses' in a million years. And I have medical ins, and every other "bene" and a few "benes" most people don't have. BTW- an ugly little secret- we started with $8000., a lot of luck and an EXCELLENT line of BS.......its' a good story, I'll tell it some time.

with your training and talent why not open a little bistro somewhere and have classes too, the best of both worlds, a small place wouldnt be too much to handle and the overhead would be ok, might not make ya a millionaire, but you could get by;)

WELL, you know me, I usually disagree with everyone. First off, there are never any down sides.All this was meant to be.
Everyone seems to rule out sales. NOT ME! Now this is just a suggestion .Find yourself a distributor that handles a very good line of foods and ingredients. Most all good importers and distributors have technical chefs on board. There might be some travel involved with shows, but the jist of your job will be to take their products and develope recipes using the products. These are then used to upsell to chefs.It's R&D but on a (not so stressful enviornment).
I meet with sales people all the time who know nothing about the products they are selling. Most of my gourmet vendors will provide tech. support. Oh Wait!! You might have to go to Europe to see where the product is manufactured, shoot! Oh crap, that item comes from China or Japan and you might have to go there. Maybe it's not a good idea. I know you would not like to travel the world. I have a chef buddy that I envy. He does this for a candy company that makes garnishes for ice creams and baked goods. He just took his family to England this summer, took a couple of days to push his creative ideas to one of the biggest bakeries there. Moving into a new house with his bonus and his base is 6 figures.
to long. If you decide to do your own thing I can certainly take some funds out of my failing conservative mutuals to invest in someone special.
Jeff

I hadn't realized you had lost your job either...I , too , Just thought it was your back surgery , you were on leave from your job from ....you could always make it a goal to hit 5,000 posts here , by year's end? hehehe just kidding........I , too, am going to leave the same company(in Telecommunications) , I have been with for 24 yrs.....I have been doing this since High School and have no degree or anything to speak of, except for years N years of Customer Service .........I know what you mean, tho as its in your blood.....I could go and work for a competive company , but I still am not sure if I want to stay in a field that is so unstable (think WorldCom or Nortel)........maybe I will just work in a nice little Card shoppe. Can't get too many customer complaints .......I mean , who do you complain to about the card u received (-:

I wish you all the best and don't settle for second best......you have a lot of talent and knowledge , that will benefit the lucky employer , who hires you .......

I'm sorry to hear that news Cape Chef. I wish I had posted what Jim wrote previously on this thread!! As a overly creative person I understand that inner drive and the need to express yourself thru your work.

The best advice/thoughts I have come from my similar mid-life experince I'm still going thru. TAKE YOUR TIME AND BREATHE! Try to loose the un-ease of the situation and look at this as a chance to redirrect your life. I'm at the 1 year mark off of being a "pastry chef" and even though this has been a emotionally hard year I wouldn't trade the experience at all. I still don't know where I'm going to land but I except the journey as an adventure and believe it was more then meant to be, it needed to be.

I say don't rush into another "career", follow experinces that enhance your soul and you'll land where you were meant to be.

Dear Brad - Oh, those mid-life crises!!! But that's exactly what inspired me to get off my duff, quit doing my boring transcription job, and get into the food biz! The old adage, 'do what you love' is so true, and everything else will fall into place!

Now - my personal preference - even tho you said you can't make a move right now - is for you and family to relocate to Charleston, SC, and you and I can open a little 'gourmet to go' place together!!!! Day hours, get involved with the local produce people and use local ingredients, pick and choose the catering end, and close up shop by 6 or 7 at night! Hmmmmmmm?!!!!


About writing a book - I do think you'd be fabulous at it, and you have so much to share - it'd be selfish of the rest of us here if we wanted to keep you all to ourselves! However, the down side of writing a food book is 1) there really is no money in it; the royalties are miniscule, even for the bestsellers; 2) there is such a dearth of food books on the market, you really have to have a 'gimmick' to catch the eye of an agent and/or publisher; 3) it costs a ton of $$ to put together recipes, because of the endless testing that needs to be done to be sure all recipes are accurate.

Everyone I've ever talked with who has done a cookbook, has just rolled their eyes and moaned! That having been said, I DO think you have an awful lot to share with the food world, and your perspective on history, food pairing, creativity -on and on! - would certainly make for great reading! Having helped hubbie edit his own published book (not on food, on the martial arts), and worked with a local chef in the beginning stages of his book (which was stymied by a jealous wife - a whole other story!), I would be honored to help you out, if you decide to pursue it.

I know that whatever you choose to do, you'll be great at it! And if you DO teach somewhere be sure to let me know, because I'd be on the doorstep waiting for admission!!!

All my best, Jackie

B & B is what you've wanted.....
I can see you cooking in a Long Island winery. Developing dinners.

Gotta DR's appt and need to run but I'm thinking of you. Good luck.
J

It's my pleasure, Sir. Just thought you could use it! (the humor that is...)

But seriously, I can imagine you teaching. Whatever you decide, don't steer too far from the kitchen...

Well, CC if all goes well I will place that call in 10 yrs. until then you've received alot of good advice the most important being take your time. I truely do agree w/ Panini though, give some good thoughts to sales. Although I worked for a large dist. we were stuck on quality and training. My success was directly because of my chef background that would allow me to develope recipes complete w/ costings. I made a weekly newsletter complete w/ reminders of specialty produce items coming available special pricing of cener of the plate items and recipes. I wouldn't ever push things I didn't believe in because my integrity is worth more than the couple of bucks I would have made on a sale. By the end of my career w/them I was making close to 6 figures working 40 hrs per week. Just a thought.

Maybe you should take the J & W thing I mean how long is the commute everything on the east coast is so close. Of course I like to drive and a 2 hr drive would be nothing to me. Books on tape are a great thing.:D

On the other side of the coin when I started my own thing my original investment was only 35,000. My investment has grown 200 fold at least on paper anyway. But getting it to that point caused alot of sleepless nights, headaches and bad moods caused by a county in no hurry to do a thing that might help.
I work more hrs now because I choose to. I need to know that every banquet receives our best. I own part of a golf course yet don't have the time to golf more than 4 times a yr. So whats that all about. Mainly its about balance. Hard to find and sometimes hard to keep. But we all keep working towards it. Listen to your innerself you'll know what is best for you if you pay attention.

So in closing my brother, take care, take time and get well. God has a plan for everyone. Just ask He'll tell you:) Mike

where is my Italian calculator? 35,000. X 200= shoot, what the **** is that? 7 billion?trillion? fodigger, you make a lot of sence. I understand the part about working harder doing your own thing, it's weird but in 10 yrs. I haven't really felt that I had to go in.
Brad,
My post about sales was more of a thought. I just envisioned you in a kitchen creating and experimenting with old and new products. Finding new ways to do old things etc.
If you and Marm do the business thing you will need a bakery attached. Sorry Momo but this will pass for a verbal contract even though your closer.