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Global minosharp 1000 8000 HELP?!

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
I'm still looking for a whetstone and I cant decide.. im planning to get Global minosharp 1000 8000 kit with sharpening guide. Some ppl recommended norton 1000 8000 im using Miyabi mct 6000 series. Help please?
post #2 of 17

Norton stones are not great.  The cut slowly and dish quickly.  Minosharp are undoubtedly someone elses stone with their logo on it.  Why not just go the source?  I'd suggest a Shapton, Naniwa or Sigma Power.  Some of the Bestons are good too.

"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
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"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
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post #3 of 17
Thread Starter 
I checked them I was looking for 2 sided stones actually like 1000 6000 or 8000. Naniwa traditional set looks cool but how come so cheap? 220 1000 n 6000 grit 3 together only for 100$? How am I suppose to trust it
post #4 of 17

Naniwa makes several lines.  Their best are the Chocera stones.  Those run between $50-$250 each.  They do have a cheaper line and they're good but not as good.  Price isn't the only criterion with stones.  I would discourage getting the two sides ones.  They're a pain.  After a while you have to flatten your stones and it's a hassle if both sides need flattened.  Plus it's easy to get grit contamination between the two.

"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
Reply
"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
Reply
post #5 of 17
Thread Starter 
Choseras are pretty expensive. Its around 230 $ for two stones.. medium and fine
post #6 of 17

Some criteria for looking at stones

-soaker or splash and go?

-how big?  Wider and longer stones like 3"x8" will make your life easier

-how fast does it cut?

-how fast will it dish? how long will it last you?  How often will you need to flatten?

 

My set is mostly splash and go. I've been using 1k and 2k shapton pro from CKTG and finishing on gesshin 5k from JKI.  I like the shapton pros a lot.  They cut fast and they come with a box that doubles as a stand. For repairs and thinning I've been using a king 220 grit, but I'm likely to replace it soon.

 

A good soaker set that is reasonably priced is the set that Dave Martell uses:

 

http://www.japaneseknifesharpeningstore.com/Dave-Martell-s-Core-Set-of-Sharpening-Stones-p/set1dmcore.htm

post #7 of 17

Some general advice:

 

I would recommend against 1000 8000 set.  The majority of your sharpening is going to be on a medium stone, for this discussion, let's call it 1000 grit but 1200, 1500 would work too.  After the 1000 grit stone, your knife should already be able to cut well.  A fine stone for finishing at 5k or 6k is used to polish the edge that you made at 1000.  I use my 5k splash and go for quick touch ups instead of a ceramic honing rod (never steel rod on harder steels).  I don't go higher than this on double bevel knives and for some purposes like boning knives prefer a toothier edge around 2-3k..

 

A coarser stone is used for quickly setting bevels, thinning, and repairing small chips.  You should stay away from this stone until you have the basic motions down.  It's easier to damage your knife with a coarse grit stone.

post #8 of 17

You could get by pretty well with a 1k Chocera and a 5k Chocera.

"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
Reply
"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
Reply
post #9 of 17

Why isn't anyone using King?

 

I use a King 1000/6000 for my Miyabi 600S. $35-$50 range, depending on where you get it. About another $15 for the nagura stone.

 

Love the edge I get.

 

King is good.

post #10 of 17
Nothing wrong with king. I have it, I've used it. Kind of cuts slow and dishes faster than my other stones. I find it more pleasant to work with wider longer stones.

Each side is thinner since it's a combo. Then there's the question of each side needing different amounts of soaking. I prefer not to use combo stones and I can afford it. Considering how many knives I maintain, I would say I saved a bunch on professional sharpening anyway. Not to mention I get some favors out of sharpening my friends knives.

Tldr. King is okay; depends on budget.
post #11 of 17

Kings are okay but entry level or for guys/gals that aren't sharpening junkies.  So far I haven't found anything that's as good at as many things as the Choceras.  They're expensive but well worth the money.  If you just want to maintain your own knives you can get by with a couple off brand water stones but I'm kind of a geek.

"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
Reply
"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
Reply
post #12 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
 

Kings are okay but entry level or for guys/gals that aren't sharpening junkies.  So far I haven't found anything that's as good at as many things as the Choceras.  They're expensive but well worth the money.  If you just want to maintain your own knives you can get by with a couple off brand water stones but I'm kind of a geek.


It would appear that I am now in need of additional knowledge...

 

I happily spend 30-40mins at a time working my blade on the stone. It's gratifying and, of course, important to maintain my knives' edges.

 

I was under the impression that I was serious about keeping them sharp. I thought I was a sharpening junkie...*insert sad face here*.

 

What would be the advantage of a higher-end set of stones?

 

Any info greatly appreciated!

post #13 of 17
For me the advantage of a faster cutting splash and go set is convenience. I can do touch up in 3 min and full sharpening progression in less than 15. Im not counting repairs, chips, initial sharpening, thinning. Those take as long as they take.

You can get the same results from king, just multitask something else while it soaks.
post #14 of 17
Especially a novice should benefit from fast cutters like the Choseras. If you need more time to get the work done concentration will diminish, poor techniques and bad habits may develop.
post #15 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBeerd Cantu View Post
 


It would appear that I am now in need of additional knowledge...

 

I happily spend 30-40mins at a time working my blade on the stone. It's gratifying and, of course, important to maintain my knives' edges.

 

I was under the impression that I was serious about keeping them sharp. I thought I was a sharpening junkie...*insert sad face here*.

 

What would be the advantage of a higher-end set of stones?

 

Any info greatly appreciated!

 

I guess by "junkie" I mean a geek that likes to play around with different stones.  Different stones have different feels during use, give different kind of edges and interact differently with other lines.  For example the 10k Chocera leaves and edge that is at once slippery and toothy...it's really hard to explain.  Japanese natural stones are the same way.  You get different textures and a different appearance from different stones, especially if you like to use them to deliberately create different looks (eg the misty finish in a yanagi-ba).

 

To the geek personal preference comes into the mix.  If you just want a sharp knife it doesn't matter how you get there.  But I like to play with stones.  Generally I like softer, muddier stones.  They're more forgiving in use as the mud will help mask minor errors in angle.  A softer stone will impart a fraction more convexity on the edge.  The main reason I like soft stones though is the sound and the feel of them.  Hard stones get on my nerves- they're not pleasurable to use IMO.  They do get a crisp bevel and a nice shine.

 

I find it's fun to play with different natural shiageto stones.  They each have their own personality, even their own smell.  For instance I have a really nice Hideryama Renge Suita (a super fine polisher flecked with red specks) that works very well for carbon steels.  And a Monzen Aoto that works great after my 1k stones but before the shiageto.

 

Oh, btw- different types of steel respond differently to different stones.  I have found most J-nats to be an exercise in futility when used on modern "uber steels".  I feel like my Jyunounhonyama can hardly even scratch something like M390.  I don't even get any swarf off of it, just stone.  For the Super Steels I have found the Shapton GlassStones to be hard to beat.  But I really don't like the feel of the GSs so I only use them when I have to do a very hard or abrasion resistant blade.  For the rest I'd rather use something softer.  Shapton stones are harder than Dick Cheney's heart.

 

BTW, I'm maybe the world's slowest sharpener!  I can barely get my stones soaked and my crap set up in 30 or 40 minutes. :lol: Takes me a good hour to do the kind of job I like to do, but I can bang out a 2k job in half or even a third of that time.  I wind up doing a lot of sharpening on belts because it's so fast.  I can get a knife 90% as sharp on belts in about 1/20th the time.  That extra smidgen of sharpness and kirenaga takes some effort.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benuser View Post

Especially a novice should benefit from fast cutters like the Choseras. If you need more time to get the work done concentration will diminish, poor techniques and bad habits may develop.

 

Very true!  A fast cutting stone will require less strokes. Each stroke is a chance to screw something up.  At least if you're sharpening by hand without powered gear (ie no grinder) than anything you screw up by hand can usually be fixed by hand.  A grinder is great though.  It will allow you to ruin a knife much more quickly than you could ruin it by hand!;)

 

There's generally a trade off.  The fastest cutting stones generally dish faster.  This isn't a truism but it's generally the case.  A fast cutter is that way because it ablates/abrades easily, exposing fresh media constantly.  However this means it wears down and dishes.  A stone that dishes quickly will wear out faster and require flattening more often.  So if you have a fast cutter but you're flattening twice per session, are you really saving any time?

"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
Reply
"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
Reply
post #16 of 17
The trade-off of fast dishing doesn't apply to the Choseras. If they are fast cutters it's just because they're charged with more abrasives than others, not because the binder releases them so fast.
post #17 of 17

That's why I said 'generally'.;)  The Choceras do indeed pack a dense charge of abrasives.  There's a reason they're so expensive.  The binder is great and the feel is terrific.  They cut amazingly quickly for their grits.  In fact, when I first got into Naniwa stones I mixed up my 400 and 1k stones (very similar in color) and even when I thought my 1k was a 400 I thought it was fast!  The 320 Shapton Pro is a bit faster than the 400 Chocera with a good feel but it does wear faster than the Chocera.  The Naniwa "green brick" is a very good stone as well.  It's a 2k that isn't quite up to Chocera levels but it's very "creamy" and a terrific stone for not a lot of money.

 

Apropos of nothing there is one thing I like diamonds for- setting a bevel.  A 140 Atoma makes a great arato.  Atoma and DMT DiaSharp plates are also awesome stone fixers.  You need something to flatten on and the great thing about the DMT is it won't ever dish on you.  If you use a traditional stone fixer over time it dishes so you need a fixer for the fixer!

"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
Reply
"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
Reply
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