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Sous vide vegetables trial run - Page 3

post #61 of 86
Tweakz, convection is not essential to sv. Well, Polyscience might tell you otherwise, and makers of self contained non circulating water baths would be contrary. What you are doing in the hold (depending on the control you have on temp) is exactly a more modern sv application. Many places are now using CVAP ovens (developed by KFC, it all comes back to Taco Bell, eh?) for applications that once would have been done in a water bath. Once again, the benefits of low temp, precision cooking are not predicated on the use of a bag.

In my kitchen I use both a pump circulator and an insulated water bath. They do an equally good job, though there are a few applications that I will choose one over the other.
post #62 of 86
SpoiledBroth, this is exactly what a couple of us has been saying, what we call sous vide is actually two different technologies, precision cooking, and compression. They were joined at the hip but now we can see how they can exist independently.

Maybe we will eventually have decent terminology to unpack these concepts. A bigger person than me will have to take on that struggle!
post #63 of 86

I decided to give sous-vide on a budget a try with the pot method. I'm controling the temperature all the way through. Really, as an argentinean, used to wood-grill or pan grill steaks, i do not believe this will be a panacea, but who knows. it's intriguing.

 

 

Gebe Gott uns allen, uns Trinkern, einen so leichten und so schönen Tod! Joseph Roth.
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Gebe Gott uns allen, uns Trinkern, einen so leichten und so schönen Tod! Joseph Roth.
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post #64 of 86

So, some conclusions. After 1 hour and 45 minutes here's the unasuming result. Looks like boiled meat indeed.

 

 

So, i pan grilled the steak.

 

 

Let it rest for a while. Taste.

 

 

Nothing like i've ever tasted before. Kind of a different texture i'm used to. I guess i was wrong with condiments (butter, olive oil, salt, pepper, thyme) going too strong. Also, may be too much cooked.

It was tender tho, but i would never sous vide our prime cuts. Really no need to.

All in all, an interesting experience.

Gebe Gott uns allen, uns Trinkern, einen so leichten und so schönen Tod! Joseph Roth.
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Gebe Gott uns allen, uns Trinkern, einen so leichten und so schönen Tod! Joseph Roth.
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post #65 of 86

I also did some carrots at 93°C.

 

 

Nice, but nothing extraordinary. I'm really trying to understand all this sous-vide fuss.

May be poaching a whole bird will work.

Gebe Gott uns allen, uns Trinkern, einen so leichten und so schönen Tod! Joseph Roth.
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Gebe Gott uns allen, uns Trinkern, einen so leichten und so schönen Tod! Joseph Roth.
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post #66 of 86
Ordo, looks like a good try. Your steak looks OK from the final pictures but the cooking shot implies some issues. I would be a little shakey with the oil thermo meter, and you can see the meat floating at the surface of the water.

As for the carrots, and I am just curious here, why 93c? Stick to 85c.
post #67 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweakz View Post
 

I was under the impression that Sous Vide was about precision temperature control, and convection. -The cooler method offers neither.  I cook cut up Eye-Round 5 days a week 2/3 of the year often by pre-grilling, then  finishing in a holding oven. I've come to prefer it to strip steak (not a delmonico or ribeye fan).  I've also cooked ends of eye round in a pressure cooker after searing it. Eye round is the toughest cut of a steer. It comes out so damn good these ways, that I can't imagine it being made better by cooking it in a bag in hot water.

 

Precise temp control is great, but with meat the important thing is to control the top end of the temp range.  If you put 130 F water in the cooler it will lose heat but it won't gain any- that's the main thing.  I won't say that a cooler is the equal of a circulator but it works for some stuff (smaller items).  Circulation helps but it's not necessary.  Thanks to the laws of thermodynamics the heat will flow into the food without it.

 

You almost never cook anything "in a bag of hot water."  The bag serves as a barrier between the cooking liquid and the meat.  Any moisture in the bag has seeped out of the meat.

"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
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"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
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post #68 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by ordo View Post
 

I also did some carrots at 93°C.

 

 

Nice, but nothing extraordinary. I'm really trying to understand all this sous-vide fuss.

May be poaching a whole bird will work.

 

That's a little to high, try 185 F.  The "fuss" is easier to understand when you can get the temp correct and hold it in a tight window.

"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
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"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
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post #69 of 86

me: "cooking it in a bag in hot water"

 

you: "in a bag of hot water"

 

-seriously?

post #70 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
 

 

Precise temp control is great, but with meat the important thing is to control the top end of the temp range.  If you put 130 F water in the cooler it will lose heat but it won't gain any- that's the main thing.  I won't say that a cooler is the equal of a circulator but it works for some stuff (smaller items).  Circulation helps but it's not necessary.  Thanks to the laws of thermodynamics the heat will flow into the food without it.

 

You almost never cook anything "in a bag of hot water."  The bag serves as a barrier between the cooking liquid and the meat.  Any moisture in the bag has seeped out of the meat.

Agreed.

 

"in a bag of hot water" - There is a famous classic Chinese dish called "white cut chicken". Chicken cooked to perfection without much seasoning.

 

The method uses temperature control, in a pot of hot water. The chicken never gets overcooked.

 

dcarch

post #71 of 86

Under different economic conditions (here in Arg, it´s now impossible to import things, due to government stupidity) i would not hesitate to buy a circulator. One thing i liked in the steak was fat texture, like melting in the mouth.

About carrots, i read something about the pectine needing 93° or so to tenderize.. Anyway, my cheap thermometer is incapable of such level of precision.

I'm happy to discover something  new to play with!

Gebe Gott uns allen, uns Trinkern, einen so leichten und so schönen Tod! Joseph Roth.
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Gebe Gott uns allen, uns Trinkern, einen so leichten und so schönen Tod! Joseph Roth.
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post #72 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcarch View Post

Agreed.

"in a bag of hot water" - There is a famous classic Chinese dish called "white cut chicken". Chicken cooked to perfection without much seasoning.

The method uses temperature control, in a pot of hot water. The chicken never gets overcooked

Is that the one where the chicken cavity is loaded up with metal utensils and submerged in broth?

dcarch
post #73 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllanMcPherson View Post

Is that the one where the chicken cavity is loaded up with metal utensils and submerged in broth?

 

From Wiki:

 

"

The chicken is salt marinated and is cooked in its entirety in hot water or chicken broth with ginger. Other variations season the cooking liquid with additional ingredients, such as the white part of the green onion, cilantro stems or star anise. When the water starts to boil, the heat is turned off, allowing the chicken to cook in the residual heat for around 30 minutes. The chicken's skin will remain light coloured, nearly white and the meat will be quite tender, moist, and flavourful. The dish can be served "rare" in which the meat is cooked thoroughly but a pinkish dark red blood secretes from the bones. This is a more traditional version of white cut chicken that is seldom served in Chinese restaurants anymore. The chicken is usually cooled before cutting into pieces.

The chicken is served in pieces, with the skin and bone, sometimes garnished with cilantro, leeks and/or a slice of ginger. A condiment usually accompanied by combining finely minced ginger, green onion, salt and hot peanut oil. Additional dips can be spicy mustard, hoisin sauce, soy sauce, oyster sauce, or chili pepper sauce."

"Seldom served" is wrong. It is very popular in restaurants.

dcarch

post #74 of 86

Another trial with 600 grs of veal ribs. This way of cutting the ribs in thin strips is usual in argentinean asados. I know there're some 48 to 72 hours sous vide for this cut, but thats impossible. i will try 3 hours at 75-80°C.

 

 

I got a better packaging using a vacuum cleaner. 

 

Gebe Gott uns allen, uns Trinkern, einen so leichten und so schönen Tod! Joseph Roth.
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Gebe Gott uns allen, uns Trinkern, einen so leichten und so schönen Tod! Joseph Roth.
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post #75 of 86

Epic fail. 

Gebe Gott uns allen, uns Trinkern, einen so leichten und so schönen Tod! Joseph Roth.
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Gebe Gott uns allen, uns Trinkern, einen so leichten und so schönen Tod! Joseph Roth.
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post #76 of 86

ORDO!

 

Stop being silly.

 

I respect you and commend your quest but what you are doing is not 'sous-vide'

 

I could have told you that those rib bits would fail.  Cooking for that duration and that temperature will not work. (anyone who has done sous-vide could have said the same)

 

It is way too high a temp and far too short a duration.

 

The vacuum or pressure is not the important part - the time and temp is!

----

 


"Plus, this method makes you look like a complete lunatic. If you care about that sort of thing".  - Dave Arnold

 

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----

 


"Plus, this method makes you look like a complete lunatic. If you care about that sort of thing".  - Dave Arnold

 

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post #77 of 86
Ordo, not piling on you here, but the point you seem to be missing is the relationship between time and temp. These are the pillars of sous vide, the plastic and sealing, were developed as part of a sensible way of achieving that. Randomly changing these factors and expecting good results,is kinda like trying to fry a cake batter. No, it just won't work.
post #78 of 86
Thread Starter 

@ordo in my early attempts to learn I've found a great example repeated that demonstrates the dramatic difference that can occur within a very small temperature range when you are able to hold an exact temperature for an extended period of time. I think an egg is also a good example because it doesn't even bring into question the vacuum sealing. Every one of the eggs below was cooked for 60 minutes with only 2 degrees F difference between each, yet the results are very different. Without the ability for you to control the temperature within about 1 degree F for the entire 60 minutes, you will find it almost impossible to consistently create results like the ones below.

 

 

Photo Credit http://www.douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html

post #79 of 86
I think it's awesome that you're trying however you can ordo. You didn't fail, you learned a new way that doesn't work how you desire, a new something to watch out for. You're only better and more intelligent because if it.
Non sequitur: they don't allow importing in Argentina?!!! I can't even imagine with how much I use ebay and amazon from international sellers. Debilitating
post #80 of 86

Sorry Tweakz, I didn't mean to misquote you.  I read you wrong, my apologies.

"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
Reply
"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
Reply
post #81 of 86

For veal osso bucco I use 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ordo View Post
 

Epic fail. 

 

I know exactly how you feel.  :) 

post #82 of 86

oh well. Try again. 


Edited by chefwriter - 10/13/14 at 12:37pm
post #83 of 86

NP at all Phaedrus, I much appreciate the response, and highly respect you. - I'm sure I've made posts that are much worse. =(

 

My biggest issues with Sous Vide is cooking in plastic, and the destruction of nutrients with extended cooking. I remember going to family get togethers and drinking from plastic or aluminum glasses where you could taste the plastic and aluminum. Despite plastic supposedly not breaking down in nature; I've witnessed it break down over time in plastic garbage cans, plastic bags, toys, etc. 

 

Stir fry appeals to me more. A and E are oil soluble vitamins. Shorter cook time = less nutrient loss. -And who can contend with the taste of carmelization or the texture of grilling or searing that you simply can't get from sous vide alone? Tonight I pre-cooked Russet potatoes in the pressure cooker before sticking them in a 500F oven (in the past I microwaved / toaster ovened). It may be better than typical restaurant results, but it's far from a real baked potato.

 

Despite seeming negative towards Sous Vide, I have been mulling over ideas to cook eggs, stuffed burgers / chicken breasts, and other things in a similar manner.

post #84 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweakz View Post
 

NP at all Phaedrus, I much appreciate the response, and highly respect you. - I'm sure I've made posts that are much worse. =(

 

My biggest issues with Sous Vide is cooking in plastic, and the destruction of nutrients with extended cooking. I remember going to family get togethers and drinking from plastic or aluminum glasses where you could taste the plastic and aluminum. Despite plastic supposedly not breaking down in nature; I've witnessed it break down over time in plastic garbage cans, plastic bags, toys, etc. 

 

Stir fry appeals to me more. A and E are oil soluble vitamins. Shorter cook time = less nutrient loss. -And who can contend with the taste of carmelization or the texture of grilling or searing that you simply can't get from sous vide alone? Tonight I pre-cooked Russet potatoes in the pressure cooker before sticking them in a 500F oven (in the past I microwaved / toaster ovened). It may be better than typical restaurant results, but it's far from a real baked potato.

 

Despite seeming negative towards Sous Vide, I have been mulling over ideas to cook eggs, stuffed burgers / chicken breasts, and other things in a similar manner.

 

It is possible that you have extremely sensitive taste buds. Almost everything you buy now is in plastics or metals. Very very few people can taste the plastic nor the metal, especially aluminum, which forms instantly aluminum oxide when exposed. Aluminum oxide is extremely tough.

 

I am not sure (in USA) lack of nutrients is a problem. I just saw a report that we are so over-vitamined  that we are wasting money taking vitamin pills. 

 

Low cooking temperature retains a lot of nutrients.

 

dcarch

post #85 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcarch View Post
 

 

It is possible that you have extremely sensitive taste buds. Almost everything you buy now is in plastics or metals. Very very few people can taste the plastic nor the metal.

 

I am not sure (in USA) lack of nutrients is a problem. I just saw a report that we are so over-vitamined  that we are wasting money taking vitamin pills. 

 

Low cooking temperature retains a lot of nutrients.

 

dcarch


I don't have the genetics that make broccoli bitter and distasteful. Packaging in plastic vs cooking in plastic is different. I may have hyper sensitivity and aspergers or introvert symptoms in general.

 

I agree about vitamin pills. Marketing has convinced many that they are deficient when they are far from it. I've also found information that indicates that cooked food (not over cooked) makes nutrients more bio-available in tubers, eggs, etc. I've been a victim of the nutrient marketing due to Silicon Dioxide overload which resulted in sensitivity to soy contributing to Lupus symptoms otherwise fibromyalgia symptoms.

 

I'm all for low cooking temps and love the result on eye round and chicken breast, but some are suggesting it's ok to hold it all day at those low temps and even reusing it. I'm probably coming off more anti-sous vide than I am. 

post #86 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastshores View Post

I've been intrigued by the idea of sous vide for a number of years but only recently have home sous vide units come into a price range where I felt it was affordable enough to jump in. I picked up two units from Anova which I recently reviewed here. I originally only wanted one but after an order mishap I decided to keep the second because it would allow me to run two different temperatures at once, which is a must if you are doing meats as well as vegetables.



 



Last night I went over to a friends and we experimented with carrots and potatoes. I was interested to see what his opinion was, because there can be a lot of hype around sous vide cooking vs. other methods and I wanted an unbiased opinion. I sealed the vegetables with a little oil and seasonings. I experimented with the potatoes by sealing one bag with only oil and thyme, and sealing a second bag with oil and sea salt. I determined that with the salt being in prior to sealing you can end up with areas that are too concentrated so one bite is bland and the next extremely salty. Best to leave seasoning with salt until after.



 





 





 



For this experiment I set the water bath to 85C





 



I decided to let them cook past 2 hrs. Most readings I had done said that 1 hr was sufficient but I wanted to see if there was any negative effect from leaving them in longer. That was important to me because one aspect of sous vide that I like is the flexibility in timing. We all went for a swim and just let the veges do their thing. I was serving teriyaki glazed salmon along with these, so when we were ready to eat we just cooked the salmon not worrying about the vegetables.



 





 



So what was the verdict? Well my friend tried one of the potatoes and instantly reacted by saying it was really good, in fact one of the best potatoes he's ever eaten. I concurred, there was a subtle rich and earthy flavor that I don't often pick up on. I wouldn't go so far as to say they were better than roasted potatoes, but they offer a different experience that is equally good.



 



The carrots were really interesting. I had anticipated even cooking but there was in fact a difference between the colors. The yellow carrots were extremely soft, the purple being in the middle, and the orange being the least soft of the three. That surprised me, and I am certainly a new fan of the yellow carrots as they also had more flavor than the other two.



 



In the end the vegetables were very good, maintained their color well and had a very rich concentrated flavor. Being able to "set it and forget it" was nice as well, and allowed me to concentrate solely on the salmon when the time came.


 



Nothing really to addd just to say that dish look great!
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