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How to make a nice quick stock?

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 

Hello

Does anyone have any advice on making a nice quick stock probably a chicken or beef stock? This is for home use I don't really have the time to cook it for 10 hours but I know there are ways to make nice stock in an hour or 2. Possibly with using a slow cooker. Any advice?

post #2 of 28

it's the roasting the bones that will give you the flavor, don't need to let it simmer for 10 hours. just get a good color on the bones and then simmer for two hours. still mighty tasty

:chef tux

"Mother Nature is the true artist, the Chef is merely the technician"

    -MPW

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:chef tux

"Mother Nature is the true artist, the Chef is merely the technician"

    -MPW

Reply
post #3 of 28
Thread Starter 

I would imagine that just cooking it for a couple of hours or so you would get a better stock than a stock cube or bullion. From what have read cooking stock in a pressure cooker will get you a better stock. Some people even think it is better than a slow stock.

post #4 of 28
Thread Starter 

Just another question. In my old place they use to cook the bones in the oven with some tomato purée then put them in the stock pot and deglaze the tray. I think that was done because they couldn't fit the chicken in the pot to fry it properly. What is the tomato purée for and if I were to fry them of in the pan with  some tomato purée then deglaze the pan with some wine would that be OK?

post #5 of 28

Oh wow!!!

 

You might as well use beef and chicken bases, it you are not going to make stock the correct way.

Why bother?

Chicken stock takes 2-4 hours. Beef 6-8 hours. You want to do this right, you need to FIND the time to do it.

post #6 of 28
I've only ever used tomato paste when roasting veal bones, but every one makes stock I little different. It's just stock so you can just deglaze with water to get your fond, I wouldn't want to fudge with something so universally simply perfect as stock as to hit with wine. Wandering off into court bouillon. And for any general method I totally agree with chefross, in fact my veal stocks usually take four days: v1 for 10, wash then v2 for another ten, combine and reduce for 10 to make fv.
That being said pressure cookers freakin rock!!!!! Best stocks ever, chicken in two hours and veal in six. When you pull the veal bones out you can literally push your finger straight through a ball joint like it's wet sand. Incredible. Their also king for cooking octo, most tender octo ever in an hour or so.
post #7 of 28
I'll second the pressure cooker, beautiful stocks with great mouth feel
post #8 of 28

I use a slow cooker (crock pot) if I have to do a ton of running around while it cooks or a pressure cooker if I am at home with tons of other things to do but I can monitor it.

post #9 of 28
Thread Starter 

I forgot to mention that the purée was used with beef stock.

Well I've bought a pressure cooker today. Hopefully going to make  stock tomorrow. I'm not not entirely shore whether it will set and so I could use it on its own as a gravy but if it doesn't would it be OK to mix chicken stock with the juices form the turkey and make a gravy with it for Christmas(we eat turkey at Christmas in England) or would it not taste hat nice mixing  chicken stock with Turkey meat juices?

post #10 of 28
Mix it. Its fine, even better perhaps. You dont want to run out of gravy!
post #11 of 28

Use a pressure cooker

"If it's chicken, chicken a la king. If it's fish, fish a la king. If it's turkey, fish a la king." -Bender
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"If it's chicken, chicken a la king. If it's fish, fish a la king. If it's turkey, fish a la king." -Bender
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post #12 of 28
It's kind of a standard to stretch turkey gravy with chicken stock.
post #13 of 28
Thread Starter 

Hi

How well does stock freeze? I am thinking of making some and freezing it.

post #14 of 28
It freezes well. I make chicken stock ice cubes as well as freezing in bulk.
post #15 of 28

another vote for pressure cooker stocks......better than making it the traditional way in my opinion. 

post #16 of 28
Doesn't exist... Nice, quick don't run with stock.. LOW AND SLOW or buy it at the store... To be honest.
post #17 of 28

It may be important to point out for the original poster that stocks do not take hours of work. They sit on the stove and simmer for hours. While you can step over and skim it once in awhile, you are free to perform other household tasks while the stock is cooking. So a veal or beef stock may take 6 or more hours to cook correctly, you are not tied to the stove for those hours. 

   A while ago I bought three old hens at my local asian market, made about three gallons of very rich stock and then reduced it to about a quart. . Frozen in small containers for use as needed and just add water to bring back to stock consistency.  So one afternoon to make stock but months of having it on hand.  It's worth the time. 

post #18 of 28

You don't need a slow cooker.  I like a nice low and slow personally, but will not get into all the different ways.  They all have their pros and cons. 

 

This is what I do if I use a carcass left over from a roasted chicken.  I throw in all the bones and random scraps.  2-3 onions cut into quarters with the skin on.  5 cloves of garlic.  I just give them a quick light crush to open them, nothing more; I don't bother with the skin.  2-3 carrots cut up into a few pieces.  1 or two celery ribs cut into 2 or 3 pieces.  I use a lot of parsley at home so I'll put the scrap stems and some full pieces in.  2 bay leaves.  10 whole peppercorns.  Maybe some thyme if it is around.  And, a tsp of apple cider vinegar.  supposedly this helps break down collagen and get more minerals from the bones, which is what is so yummy and good in stock.  I don't know if it matters or not but I just do it anyways.  I put water in to cover it a little and then some.  Don't use a lid.  You can accidently get it to an agitating boil.  Do not do this.  I put it on medium heat and when I notice the water is hot, I turn it down so that eventually you get a simmer bubble here or there but nothing much more.  I set a timer for 8 hrs and leave it be just like this.  Once in a while you may need to skim some gunk off the top.  After the 8 hrs I let it rest for 1 hr.  Then I strain the stock.  Then, cool it.  Skim the fat off the top.  Reduce or freeze or use. 

 

But remember, there is more than one way to make a good stock, or use it. 

 

People tend to experiment and find what they like.  I'd say take it all in and try it all out. 

post #19 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chefross View Post

Oh wow!!!

You might as well use beef and chicken bases, it you are not going to make stock the correct way.
Why bother?
Chicken stock takes 2-4 hours. Beef 6-8 hours. You want to do this right, you need to FIND the time to do it.
actually according to mcgee you and I are wrong. bones can be boiled and will disperse and impart compounds etc we consider desirable in our stocks for up to 32 hours (simmering). 8 hours of simmering typically extracts only 20% of what is available. Not sure how pressure cookers may affect the rate of dispersion, slow cookers are definitely not going to get the job done faster than a stovetop solution though.
Edited by SpoiledBroth - 2/20/15 at 10:04am
post #20 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoiledBroth View Post


actually according to mcgee you and I are wrong. bones can be boiled and will disperse and impart compounds etc we consider desirable in our stocks for up to 32 hours (simmering). 8 hours of simmering typically extracts only 20% of what is available. Not sure how pressure cookers may affect the rate of dispersion, slow cookers are definitely not going to get the job done faster than a stovetop solution though.


True story.  But that is only for roasted bones.  If you did that with any raw carcass, you'd get all sorts of nasties in there.  A pressure cooker would increase the rate of this process.  As you increase pressure, you need more energy (heat) to get the same effect on the liquid (boiling), because the pressure keeps the water molecules from escaping off the surface as steam.  You need more energy to overcome this.  This increase in energy creates more motion of the water molecules which increases the rate that they dissolve the bones. 

post #21 of 28
Thread Starter 

Well I've made my beef stock. Really disappointed in it to be honest it is pretty bland. I'll tell you what I did and perhaps someone can advice me.

I roasted my beef bones with some carrots,celery garlic and  onion and tomato purée. Now I roasted them for 30 minutes. Now I'm wondering if I should have roasted the for longer that could have been my first mistake. I then deglazed the pan with some water. I would have preferred to have used some red wine but I didn't have any. That could be mistake 2. I then added some cold water and bought the stock to the boil and up to pressure, I then turned the heat down but then turned it up again slightly so it was about a third the way up that was what was suggested on the pressure cooker manual. Now it is also possible I didn't add enough beef bones to it. I think next time  I will follow a recipe exactly I just got the recipe and put the ingredients in what I thought would be OK.  One more thing is that the beef bones I got did have marrow in so that would help. But there wans't much meat on them would that not help with flavour?

post #22 of 28

Pressure cooking can sometimes cause the contents to have a "flat" flavor. How did you bring it down to pressure (i.e., let it sit on the stove after flameout, or use an ice bath)? What type of bones did you use?

post #23 of 28
bones, cartilage and connective tissue for body, meat for flavour. stock made from bones alone will always lack flavour, this is especially true of chicken stock. Veal stock however is prized for its neutrality, though when you say beef I'm assuming we're not talking about veal.
post #24 of 28
E
Quote:
Originally Posted by mckallidon View Post


True story.  But that is only for roasted bones.  If you did that with any raw carcass, you'd get all sorts of nasties in there.  A pressure cooker would increase the rate of this process.  As you increase pressure, you need more energy (heat) to get the same effect on the liquid (boiling), because the pressure keeps the water molecules from escaping off the surface as steam.  You need more energy to overcome this.  This increase in energy creates more motion of the water molecules which increases the rate that they dissolve the bones. 
Dear Chris,

I highlighted this post because by the time you've made a few stocks--both at home and at work, you'll realize what utter b*llocks this highlighted post is.

Both open pot simmering and pressure cooking are methods to extract flavour. BUT neither method will work if you don't have flavour to extract. Before I can elaborate any further I have to take you back to cooking 101.

Lets say you cooking a chop or a steak. After the item is cooked, you remove it from the pan, pour off any oil and you deglaze the pan. What you are de glazing is the fond, or carmelized juices. It is these juices that have all the flavour.

Like spoiled Broth said in the above post, bones don't have much flavour. Why do we use them? Because untill about 20 years ago, most kitchens would butcher their own meat, bones come with the meat whether you like it or not. Rather than toss them out, you might as well coax the little flavour that they do have out of them. You can't saute or fry a bone, it has diddly-squat for water content so it won't fry, but you can roast them. When you roast, you are caremelizing the surface of the bone. This doesn't offer the same amount of flavour as real meat, but it does have some flavour. The smaller the bones, the more surface area you have, and therefor more caramelization, it is also faster to extract flalvour from smaller bones. You need to roast so the bones have a nice pale golden colour, then you add your nirepoix, roast untill this has good colour, add your tomato puree, and roast again untill the puree is mahogany coloured. When you roast mirepox you are also caramelizing the natural sugars and concentrating the flavour. Then you drain off all fat, put it in a pot and add cold water unitl it cover 2/3 of the bones--the mess will settle and be submerged under the water. Don't throw out the roasting pan, you can deglaze this with water, wine, or remmoulage. Bring to a boil, lower the heat to a bare simmer, and skim off any scum, then add your aromatics like bayleaf, peppercorns, and single clove.

Now I should explain about fat. Fat is a thief. It robs liquids of flavour and coour. You need to remove this as quickly as possible when it forms. Bones and meat trimmings will release fat slowly, so you have to be on guard.

Not all bones are suitble for stock, marrow bones offer little in way of flavour, and you need to extract the marrow--which is fat, if you want to use this type of bone.
Again, as spolied broth wrote, you need bones with cartilage, connective tissue, gristle and bits of tough-as-nails-meat attatched to it to roast. Cartialge provides natural gelatin, which gives your stock(and resulting sauce) body, suaveness, and smooth mouthfeel. Many cooks augment this with the addition of split and blanched calves feet--or more commonly pigs trotters, turkey wings or chicken wings.

I can't comment on using a pressure cooker for stockmaking--in my 35 years of cooking, I've never used it. Most palces I've worked in, we need to do 40-80 liters (U.S. 1 quart) once or twice a week, a mickey-mouse pressure cooker isn't gong to handle that kind of volume.

Like others have written, good stock takes time to make--as with most other things in life too, I guess. Dedicate one day to fooling around in the kitchen at home: Some nice tunes, some choice beverages, and take your time to make stockaybe do some baking or other prepwork for the week. Stock freezes beautifully, take advantage of this fact.
E
...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
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...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
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post #25 of 28

Knorr stock cubes lmao jk

post #26 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by foodpump View Post

Fat is a thief. It robs liquids of flavour and coour. You need to remove this as quickly as possible when it forms. Bones and meat trimmings will release fat slowly, so you have to be on guard.
Would you mind elaborating on this? Not challenging you, just curious.
post #27 of 28

I'm sure you must have made the mistake of putting an onion or something strong smelling next to butter--what does the butter taste like after a few hours?  Fats absorb odours quickly, this is why butter is wrapped with some kind of foil, most cheeses have some kind of foil in their packaging, and chocolate too.  Foil isn't perfect, but it does do a decent job of protecting the contents from absorbing odours.  You can use this to your advantage too, many Chefs will store truffles in a jar with cubes of butter, when I make pastry--fruitcake for examble, I cream my butter with booze, spices, vanilla, etc. wrap it up tightly, and store it in the fridge for a few days,  The butter really picks up the flavours quickly.

 

Even Escoffier endorsed the use of fats skimmed from stocks and broths to use to sweat vegetables for soup, you get an extra boost of flavor from the fat that was rendered from stocks.

 

Schmaltz, or chicken fat rendered from trimmings, skin, and body lumps of fat have incredible chicken flavor too, and will impart this into whatever you use it with.

 

When you make a stock, we all know it's important to skim the scum (dead protein) from the surface while it is large chunks, or it will break down into tiny , tiny fine particles, and cloud your stock.  Fat too, must be removed.  Next time you make a stock, save  the fat and use it to sweat mirepoix with, see if there's a flvour difference from using plain veg oil.

 

If you've ever made curries or tomato sauce, you know the oils/fats on the surface pick up the colour very quickly.  Many Asians judge a curry on the colour of the oil that sits on the surface,  if it is clear or has little colour, the curry is assumed to be weak.  Oils and fats pick up colour quickly.

...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
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...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
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post #28 of 28
Thread Starter 

I turned the heat of to let the pressure down. It is possible I opened the pressure cooker to near the cooking had finished.

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