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3-day sous-vide short ribs smell yeasty? - Page 2

post #31 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllanMcPherson View Post

Aside from time and temp (where I would go high 60's, for a day, check and at that point) I would consider thawing first. Not for anything with to do with the cooking per se, but I have had issues with frozen meat thawing and wrecking the tension in the bag as they thaw. You might need to re pack


As with slow-cookers, I would never start with frozen meat for this technique.  It would mess the temp/time calculation. At the very least I would quickly bring the thawed meat to temp in warm/hot water then let it cool down to sous-vide temp.

 

Luc H.

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post #32 of 40
It depends on what effect you are going for, something like cut oxtail, that you are looking for a long tenderization of, if you just tack an extra hour or two on the time. Like I say, I don't recommend it.
post #33 of 40

Baldin has written copiously on pasteurization times and Keller uses many long cooked recipes. As does Heston Blumenthal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chefboyOG View Post


I don't think that it is time to call the danger zone obsolete. Maybe the one from 1950, but not the one from our food safety programs. I believe that you @Phaedrus may have sufficient information to believe this, and enough experience, talent, and care to execute the dish as you mention. I just think it is a bit rash to throw the whole danger zone out the window. Especially when learning new techniques such as sous vide. And I mean new to us, the OP an I and others who will read this, not the industry as a whole. We need guidelines to follow or we end up killing people.

Can you reference the widely accepted recipe for 3 days @ 130 for me please? The inly recipe I have is from modernist website, I may have missed it or it may be in the book...

Sous vide is on my short list if technique to conquer and ribs is in the shorter list of what to do.

 

Baldin has written copiously on pasteurization times and Keller uses many long cooked recipes. As does Heston Blumenthal.  I'm out the door in a minute and can't reinvent the wheel in just a very short post but check out Daniel Baldwin's website on SV and his book.  He's a math PhD and he lays out the science pretty well.  I can find you more culinary sources but suffice to say it's very very common and quite safe if done correctly.

"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
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"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
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post #34 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luc_H View Post
 

I understand that posts often fall on semantics with participants nick picking at correct wording which often spirals in rants and what not.  By pointing this out I may cause this effect but it is very important not to confuse these three words:

Pasteurization means to kill all pathogens while leaving many microbes alive (sous vide will do this)

Sanitization means to kill many microbes on a working surface (it's a numbers game, the surface is not sterile nor does it mean pathogens are dead)

Sterilization means to kill all microbial life (as in canning and surgical tools).

 

Time/temperature tables for cooking and reheating are calculated to pasteurize the food, in sous-vide it simply prevents proliferation which means that cooking @56 C for 72 hours will discourage pathogenic microbial growth (but other non-pathogenic micro-organism may and will grow). The food will be safe if no pathogens were on the surface to start with and will smell and taste good if few of the other microorganisms aren't there at the beginning as well.

 

As already known, no amount of cooking will destroy toxins.

 

Luc H.


I chose my word a little carelessly, that's true.  But let me correct the section in red:  Pasteurization does not kill all pathogens.  Sterilization does (eg pressure canning).  Think about it; if all pathogens were killed pasteurized milk would be shelf stable.  But it's not.  We're aiming for a 6D reduction in bad bugs, not total elimination.

"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
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"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
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post #35 of 40
@Phaedrus

Not asking you to reinvent the wheel man! Just looking for the best places to get more info besides Modernist, I look forward to seeing some Keller, Blumenthal, Baldwin recipes.
post #36 of 40

One thing that made me smile was the comment about cooking at 130 degrees for 3 days so the beef would be rare.  It just seems odd to have rare beef after that long.

 

Not sure if I'm going to jump on the sous vide wagon in the future, but it might happen.

 

mjb.

Food nourishes my body.  Cooking nourishes my soul.
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Food nourishes my body.  Cooking nourishes my soul.
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post #37 of 40




Wow I have some serious reading to do now thanks a lot!

131 seems to be the magic number haha

Thanks again Im excited for some vide
post #38 of 40

Sous vide does not mean cooking at low temperature.

 

You can sous vide at any temperature.

 

Sous vide means precision cooking temperature control, which allows you to cook very close to danger zone.

 

Sous vide means safe cooking. You want the meat to be at 165F? That's what you will get, the entire piece of meat. No need to probe around with a thermometer. No other cooking method can give you  that kind of assurance, so most of the time you over cook just to be safe.

 

dcarch

post #39 of 40
" so most of the time you over cook just to be safe"

Whaaat? Why over cook? And why 165 meat?

And sous vide just means under vacuum. Its French. Oh thats a confusing one the meanings of whatnot, but Im drinkin and digress quickly.
post #40 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
 


I chose my word a little carelessly, that's true.  But let me correct the section in red:  Pasteurization does not kill all pathogens.  Sterilization does (eg pressure canning).  Think about it; if all pathogens were killed pasteurized milk would be shelf stable.  But it's not.  We're aiming for a 6D reduction in bad bugs, not total elimination.

Milk is not shelf stable because it is only pasteurized which means that the heat/time applied kills 99.9% of pathogenic bacteria (in microbiology the is always uncertainty of large numbers) but not 99.9% of all microorganisms.

Unopened milk may curdle after it's expiry date and may/will taste bad but it won't make you sick because all the pathogens are killed, only nuisance/souring microbes remain.  That is the purpose of pasteurization and why it is different than sterilization which means 100% kill of ALL microbes (which included pathogens by default).

This works because pathogens are more susceptible to heat than other microbes.  The temp/time tables are mostly based on the heat resistance of pathogens.

When it comes to sterilization, 125C (higher than boiling water) and pressure is required to kill everything.

 

Luc H.


Edited by Luc_H - 12/18/14 at 1:22pm
I eat science everyday, do you?
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I eat science everyday, do you?
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