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Looking for 210mm gyuto

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 

Hi everyone. I'm moving out from my parents house soon, so I'm looking for my own knife. I got little experience in cooking, but I'm willing to learn, and I think a decent knife might help here.

 

What type of knife do you think you want?

210mm gyuto.

 

Why is it being purchased? What, if anything, are you replacing?

My dad has Fujiwara FKS 180mm gyuto. We only had like $50 set before, so this knife felt amazing in comparison.

 

What do you like and dislike about these qualities of your knife already?

Lightweight - I've tried heavier knives, and even though it was easier to cut through using them, it felt too clumsy.

Length - I don't cook much at the moment and so far 180mm seems enough. I've got a chance to work with 210mm gyuto, felt better at times, but I realised that anything longer than that wouldn't fit my tastes.

Material - I'm definitely not ready for carbon steel knife, so let's go with stainless.

Since it's gonna be my first knife I don't want to experiment handle shape, unless Japanese has some advantages over western.

 

What grip do you use?

Pinch-grip.

 

What kind of cutting motion do you use?

Up until last month I used sawing. Know I'm getting used to rocking.

 

Where do you store your knife?

Wooden knife "block".

 

What kind of cutting board do you use?

Bamboo board.

 

For edge maintenance, do you use a strop, honing rod, pull through/other, or nothing? Have they ever been sharpened?

We have 1500/3000 grit wet stones. Usually we use 3000 every week, and 1500 approximately every month. I'm thinking about purchasing something like this, and probably 5000-6000 grit stone as well.

 

What is your budget?

$100-200

 

What do you cook and how often?

A little bit of everything. It's gonna be about 1 or 2 meals a day, maybe less. Cutting veggies, fruits and boneless meat mostly.

 

I've looked at:

Shun Classic 8-inch - handle looks slippery, and the edge is curved too much

The Misono UX10 - heel is too small

Yoshihiro Cutlery Hammered Damascus Gyuto - probably closest to what I'm looking for

post #2 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by renox View Post

Hi everyone. I'm moving out from my parents house soon, so I'm looking for my own knife. I got little experience in cooking, but I'm willing to learn, and I think a decent knife might help here.

What type of knife do you think you want?
210mm gyuto.

Why is it being purchased? What, if anything, are you replacing?
My dad has Fujiwara FKS 180mm gyuto. We only had like $50 set before, so this knife felt amazing in comparison.

What do you like and dislike about these qualities of your knife already?
Lightweight - I've tried heavier knives, and even though it was easier to cut through using them, it felt too clumsy.
Length - I don't cook much at the moment and so far 180mm seems enough. I've got a chance to work with 210mm gyuto, felt better at times, but I realised that anything longer than that wouldn't fit my tastes.
Material - I'm definitely not ready for carbon steel knife, so let's go with stainless.
Since it's gonna be my first knife I don't want to experiment handle shape, unless Japanese has some advantages over western.

What grip do you use?
Pinch-grip.

What kind of cutting motion do you use?
Up until last month I used sawing. Know I'm getting used to rocking.

Where do you store your knife?
Wooden knife "block".

What kind of cutting board do you use?
Bamboo board.

For edge maintenance, do you use a strop, honing rod, pull through/other, or nothing? Have they ever been sharpened?
We have 1500/3000 grit wet stones. Usually we use 3000 every week, and 1500 approximately every month. I'm thinking about purchasing something like this, and probably 5000-6000 grit stone as well.

What is your budget?
$100-200

What do you cook and how often?
A little bit of everything. It's gonna be about 1 or 2 meals a day, maybe less. Cutting veggies, fruits and boneless meat mostly.

I've looked at:
Shun Classic 8-inch - handle looks slippery, and the edge is curved too much
The Misono UX10 - heel is too small
Yoshihiro Cutlery Hammered Damascus Gyuto - probably closest to what I'm looking for

Can recomend the gesshin uraku from jon at japaneseknifeimports.
post #3 of 26

Hi - I would suggest a 240mm Gyuto instead of a 210.  It will be easier to work with in the long run and not much more than a 210.  Check out CKTG for your price range.  http://www.chefknivestogo.com/gyutos240mm.html  

 

Of the three you listed the Yoshihiro is your best bet.

post #4 of 26
To the OP: what do you mean by the Misono's heel being too small? Perhaps the blade being too narrow? In which case a larger gyuto would indeed be more appropriate, a 240mm will have a width of some 50mm.
post #5 of 26
I almost never use my 240 at home... I think that size is a bit unwieldy for home cooking, but I guess it depends really on what you cook. Actually my workhorse these days at work and at home is my 180mm mac gyuto eek.gif Why not get the 210mm FKM (stainless) Fujiwara? They can be had for much much less than any of your other knives you were looking at (you will categorically be told not to buy the Shun here).

I have handled a UX10 240mm gyuto and I think they are probably overpriced for what you are getting, though they are very sexy knives. tongue.gif
post #6 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike9 View Post
 

Hi - I would suggest a 240mm Gyuto instead of a 210.  It will be easier to work with in the long run and not much more than a 210.  Check out CKTG for your price range.  http://www.chefknivestogo.com/gyutos240mm.html  

 

Of the three you listed the Yoshihiro is your best bet.


Right now it feels like this: 180mm is the most comfortable for me; 210 is less easy to handle, but it is something that I will appreciate more over time; and with 240 I think I will just struggle a lot, which is not what I want from my first knife.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benuser View Post

To the OP: what do you mean by the Misono's heel being too small? Perhaps the blade being too narrow?

Yep, I think with heel that narrow rocking might be a problem.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoiledBroth View Post

Why not get the 210mm FKM (stainless) Fujiwara?

I like the Fujiwara we have, but I want to use a chance and try something new.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbushido View Post


Can recomend the gesshin uraku from jon at japaneseknifeimports.

I tried japanese handle once (it was a yanagiba knife). It was rounded and thin, and didn't become thicker towards beginning, so I had to clench my hand really hard in order to feel that knife won't wiggle. But this one looks great, I like both size and shape. Thanks.


Edited by renox - 12/28/14 at 8:07pm
post #7 of 26
If you use pinch grip?
post #8 of 26
So there is a big difference IMO from the german rock chop, which is an up and down pumping action and the french gliding push cut described here by cheftalk member BDL: http://www.cookfoodgood.com/?p=405

If you choose the second option, a world of gyutos opens up because most are this shape. For german rock chopping, mostly only shun has that big belly curve.

Handles are totally personal preference. Most are usable if you use a pinch grip. I'm a big fan of the octagonal handles at JKI. They're comfortable and the perfect size for me.
post #9 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by MillionsKnives View Post

So there is a big difference IMO from the german rock chop, which is an up and down pumping action and the french gliding push cut described here by cheftalk member BDL:
its the same motion!!!!
post #10 of 26
Except that the cutting is performed with another part of the blade, and the rock-chopping is an axial motion while BDL's "guillotine and glide" is forward once the blade front has landed.
post #11 of 26

Here is a great first set of Tojiro DP with stainless cladding over VG-10 for $145 shipped.  8" Gyuto, 6" Petty and a 3" Paring knife - http://www.chefknivestogo.com/tojiro3pcset.html  

 

 

Add a Tojiro 270mm Bread knife for $60 more and you are good to go for years to come.

post #12 of 26
Nothing wrong with VG-10, but sharpening it is not the easiest task. Deburring it by abrasion isn't that simple. I would add that I find the combination of a parer and a petty a bit bizarre. Having a petty and a peeler makes more sense, I guess. About the eternal size question: I always see people coming from the 210mm going to a 240mm; never the other way.
post #13 of 26

German rock chopping, pinch grip, guillotine and glide,... I am just glad I learned to use a knife long before I knew there was a name for what I was doing.

 

Years ago, I worked with a Japanese chef that could turn out a radish rose in a nanosecond with his 12" chef's knife and I was always completely dumbfounded by watching him. How the hell could he do that?

 

I don't have one and only one technique and style that is the only one I do. I gripe the knife in a variety of places and ways depending upon what I am doing at the moment. I cut in a variety of motions and combination motions depending upon what I am doing at the moment.  Sometimes I watch what I am doing, sometimes I don't. My fingers and my knife are pretty comfortable working as a cohesive team.

 

I can accomplish just about any kitchen task with my 270mm chef's knife. I don't need a plethora of knives. As to profile, German, French, Japanese, it doesn't really matter either. I can use them all interchangeably. Side note, coincidentally, there are professional chefs that are very proficient with knife work in all three countries mentioned. Go figure.

 

Bottom line is for the most part, knife work is about the user and not the tool.

 

I have an Epiphone Les Paul guitar. A decent guitar, not a world beater by any means, but decent. I can say with absolute confidence that Ry Cooder could play world beater versions of bottleneck blues, country, vintage jazz, Hawaiian slack-key guitar, Bahamian folk music and countless other styles on my guitar without even batting an eye.

 
Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
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Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
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post #14 of 26

Sure, if you have sharpening skills and cutting skills, any knife can get the job done, but the OP had very specific criteria about length, weight, shape, and budget. 

 

Fatter knives can wedge in food.  Shorter knives will be less efficient at prep.  Cheap stainless will be a pain to sharpen.  Those aren't issues that are easily addressed. If you can afford something that makes your life easier, then why not get exactly what you want?

post #15 of 26

I just think too many people spend too much time researching tools rather than working on skills (which are what make your life easier). As skill level increases a person develops better ideas on what exactly they want in the way of tools, thereby making wiser purchases.

Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
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Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
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post #16 of 26
To be fair to mediocre cutters, like myself, it's much easier to compare specs on the tools, particularly when there are so many different tools as there are knives.
That's not to say that I do not work on my cutting and sharpening skills also. But they are longer term and more private activities.
A forum such as this is just more conducive to tool comparison wink.gif
Speaking for myself I quite enjoy the discussions, irrespective of my (lack of) culinary skills.
Happy new year all.
post #17 of 26

Absolutely, skills are important.   A beginner with a thousand dollar knife isn't going to out perform a line cook with a well used victorinox.  On the other hand, the path of upgrading as you outgrow your tools can be more expensive in the long run.  I recommend to start with mid price range gyuto, average thickness not too thick or thin, that has good price/performance ratio and grow into it.  From there you'll get a good idea of exactly what you want if you upgrade.

post #18 of 26
I tend to agree and advice a middle of the road chef's knife so that the novice can develop his skills and explore his preferences about profile, geometry, weight, balance, material.
post #19 of 26

And if you think skills can overcome all, try my mom's knives...

post #20 of 26

What cheflayne has said should be Gospel for the professional.  But the home cook is another story in great part.  My personal philosophies here are as follows:

 

It's and unusual heavy day when I have to dice 5 pounds of vegetables, like for dinner this Christmas, and the time "actually cutting" here has to be less than 10min.  Now take a look at this guy here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=og4hTAzF1gs

 

I've seen videos of the guy with the skinny arms and big fast hands using several different brands of gyuto, and a suji, doing the same task, and doing it exactly the same.  He can go thru five pounds of onions in less than 2 min I believe, actualy cutting that is, removing those damn outer skins can slow you down a bit.

 

I don't think the typical home cook is going to come even anywhere in shouting distance near that near using the typical German stainless blade.  Aside from the fact they are just too damn and unnecessarily thick and don't sharpen well, with that kind of board contact you'd be both looking at a lot more sharpening than a typical home cook cares to do and, from my perspective anyways, an undesirably obtuse sharpening angle.  That also spells ruin for any good board.

 

And so I feel that for the typical home cook thinking of eventually upgrading, the idea is to acquire some reasonable means of sharpening, and the ability to not cut the hell out of yourself, get comfortable using the claw-hand in controlling the progression of the cutting, eliminate twisting of the edge on the board, controlling force, cutting straight and paper-thin slicing, and then getting yourself a good knife/dream knife.  Because sharp that also keeps its sharp well is just such a pleasure.

 

 

Rick


Edited by Rick Alan - 12/31/14 at 3:58am
post #21 of 26

Another 2 cents on my philosophy.  If you're cutting on the board, carrots on up, then a 10" chefs is not too big.  And, as cheflayne has stated, if you're in command then a 12" is not too big for anything.  But as I see it, for fine slicing peppers, celery, garlic, etc, nothing beats a 240 suji, same if you're cutting in-hand, like some of us crazies do, in particular I would not as much enjoy my hard salami any other way.

 

 

Rick

post #22 of 26
For some food I prefer a narrow blade to avoid dragging, so I understand the use of a suji. But why with celery??
post #23 of 26
How about a Kohetsu Blue #2? It's stainless clad so only the edge will patina/can rust. Western handle. Light and thin, relatively flat profile but can rock. Gets super sharp on the stones. Only $100.
post #24 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benuser View Post

For some food I prefer a narrow blade to avoid dragging, so I understand the use of a suji. But why with celery??
showboating :P
post #25 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benuser View Post

For some food I prefer a narrow blade to avoid dragging, so I understand the use of a suji. But why with celery??

 

As you know I prefer the feel of a suji, and celery being rather shallow in height I feel the suji fits and for me the shallow heal offers greater precision also.  I am very frequently slicing vegies to <1mm thickness.

 

+1 on that comment SB.  Unless you're hanging over the edge it takes a modified grip to use a suji on the board, and particularly in a pro kitchen this could be perceived as showboating.

 

 

Rick

post #26 of 26
Thread Starter 

Wow, that's a lot of info! Thank you guys for all of your suggestions. I decided to go with Gesshin Uraku 210mm. I like that even though it's longer than my 180mm Fujiwara it has the same weight (so the transition will be pretty smooth), and on top of this I'm gonna be able to compare different handles. So yeah, it seems like a nice knife to get started with and figure out along the way what kind of handle I prefer and whether or not I want a 240mm for my next knife.

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