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Theirs-Issard 4* Elephant /no name ?

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 

I have a beautiful 8 inch chefs knife I bought from a very reputable Company called ''professional cutlery direct'' in 1998. I was looking for my first Real chefs knife and decided on this greatly praised French classic . I bought  almost everything I have from that catalog. The interesting part of it is that there is no name Stamped on the blade or the handle which I have seen in other examples identical to the one I have. Mine has brass rivets and is carbon steel.

I read an article on the complexity and changes that the company went through. But I 'M not sure why there is no name can anyone tell me? Plus I am interested in selling the knife and do not know quite how to go about it or what it maybe worth.

 

Thank you

Alex

post #2 of 24
Show us some pictures, please! Why would you sell is? Do you have any replacement in mind? A brand new carbon 8" Thiers-Issard will cost some $80 + shipping. If the price of some vintages has risen it's because they have become collector's items and the offer is limited as most old carbons have been ground away. There has been some market manipulation as well. But a 15-years old carbon isn't a collector's item, yet.
post #3 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benuser View Post

Show us some pictures, please! Why would you sell is? Do you have any replacement in mind? A brand new carbon 8" Thiers-Issard will cost some $80 + shipping. If the price of some vintages has risen it's because they have become collector's items and the offer is limited as most old carbons have been ground away. There has been some market manipulation as well. But a 15-years old carbon isn't a collector's item, yet.


O.K. I'll try to up load some latter to day . 

post #4 of 24
Thread Starter 

Hi here is the knife ,

 

file:///Users/ABeldock/Desktop/DSCF2014.JPG

file:///Users/ABeldock/Desktop/DSCF2019.JPG
file:///Users/ABeldock/Desktop/DSCF2020.JPG
file:///Users/ABeldock/Desktop/DSCF2021.JPG
file:///Users/ABeldock/Desktop/DSCF2022.JPG
file:///Users/ABeldock/Desktop/DSCF2023.JPG
 
O well how do I do this so you can see them . I am on a Macbook pro . there on my desk top now . tried to drag but this is what happened. " insert image "
then choose file , desk top , but choose is gayed ( not active ) .  

Edited by Alexbel - 1/11/15 at 12:07am
post #5 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexbel View Post
 

Hi here is the knife , ...O well how do I do this so you can see them . I am on a Macbook pro . there on my desk top now . tried to drag but this is what happened. " insert image "

then choose file , desk top , but choose is gayed ( not active ) .  

 

Take a look at the icons located above where you type in your post.  There's an icon that indicates "INSERT IMAGE".  The icon itself seems to display two mountain tops.

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply
post #6 of 24
Thread Starter 

Wahla!.... I just figured out what I was doing wrong. I simply had to click on the photograph. Anyway here is  the beautiful knife. There is a photograph Of a knife like this on the Book jacket of Le Gastronomique . I am not using it much now, and I'm getting along quite well with a Wusthof classic Ikon 7'' Santoku for my more limited needs .I suppose the name issue is not a concern ? but why it dozen't have a stamp i do not know  all though it could have had a sticker I forgot about .  

 

 

 

 

 

post #7 of 24
Nice knife. Probably the retailer was expected to put his own name on it. It could use a little bit of work -- tip, slightly protruding heel and recurve-belly, thinning probably -- and be a great performer again.
post #8 of 24

I would not sell that knife. It will give you years of beautiful, adequate use.

Gebe Gott uns allen, uns Trinkern, einen so leichten und so schönen Tod! Joseph Roth.
Reply
Gebe Gott uns allen, uns Trinkern, einen so leichten und so schönen Tod! Joseph Roth.
Reply
post #9 of 24
Thread Starter 


What a nice response I've gotten from both of you . Thank you. It is a classic ,but I can't help it. I usually want the classics in almost everything .

Quote:
Originally Posted by ordo View Post
 

I would not sell that knife. It will give you years of beautiful, adequate use.


It will have to give someone else that, I'm afraid. I'd like to keep it but it needs work and I am going to let it go to a good and new Home. I suppose I could post it here to give people a chance like all of you to take better care of it then I can.

What would you say it's value is, can you tell me?

 

 

Alex B

post #10 of 24

You can check similar blades in eBay, going from $10 to $80 depending on a number of factors.

Gebe Gott uns allen, uns Trinkern, einen so leichten und so schönen Tod! Joseph Roth.
Reply
Gebe Gott uns allen, uns Trinkern, einen so leichten und so schönen Tod! Joseph Roth.
Reply
post #11 of 24
Carbon steel is not very abrasion resistant, you can easily perform the necessary work yourself with a few sheets of sandpaper, a little time and some guidance you may obtain here. And believe me, it's a lot of fun. On carbons you obtain very good results very easily.
post #12 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benuser View Post

Carbon steel is not very abrasion resistant, you can easily perform the necessary work yourself with a few sheets of sandpaper, a little time and some guidance you may obtain here. And believe me, it's a lot of fun. On carbons you obtain very good results very easily.


O.K. you got me curious, how do I go about it ? My hand is is waiting,but my mind is undecided.

 

I did not know you could use paper instead of a stone can i do the same with my Wosthof ?? 

post #13 of 24
Yes, you can with stainless, but it will take much more effort as soft stainless is very abrasion resistant. You can take a carbon very easily to a very high level of performance you can't reach with stainless. So it's up to you if it is worth the effort. If your Wüsthof santoku is the version with küllens, you can't do much.
Edited by Benuser - 1/14/15 at 6:02am
post #14 of 24

I can't speak either for Thers-Issard or for "Professional Cutlery Direct", or tell you whether or not the knife is a Thiers-Issard 4-Star Elephant.

 

It's certainly a carbon steel blade and it's just the right blade profile to be considered a Sabatier.  It even has the copper-colored handle rivets, which carbon steel blade Sabatiers traditionally have.

 

However, I just looked in my mish-mash of a collection of chef's knives and pulled out a vintage Thiers Issard 4-Star Elephant carbon steel chef's knife (complete with stamped handle).  The problem is that the rivets on my knife are definitely not copper-color.  They are silverish-colored.

 

It may very well be that your knife is made by Thiers Issard.  They have made knives both under their own logo (the 4-Star Elephant brands) and under private label for retailers.

 

But before you put that knife up for sale on eBay, take a good look under a magnifier to be sure.  Also, run your fingertip along both the blade and the handle to see if you can find some inkling of an imprinting.   If you do decide to sell it, then eBay insists that all descriptions be absolutely accurate.  You can describe it as being "generally the same profile as a Sabatier", and that would be accurate.

 

However, I agree with Ordo - keep it, sharpen it yourself and get many years of personal pleasure out of that blade.

 

 

Galley Swiller

post #15 of 24

+1 ^^^^^^^^^^

 

My Sabatiers with CS blades, all have silver and not gold colored rivets (EDIT) and all have been used since the '70s.  The blades are pitted both from the pouring of the metal and use over the decades.


Edited by kokopuffs - 1/14/15 at 5:34pm

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply
post #16 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benuser View Post

Yes, you can with stainless, but it will take much more effort as soft stainless is very abrasion resistant. You can take a carbon very easily to a very high level of performance you can't reach with stainless. So it's up to you if it is worth the effort. If your Wüsthof santoku is the version with küllens, you can't do much.


The version with Kulkens ??  don't know but it is a "Ikon" . If I could sand either one how do I do that???  Sandpaper , block, wet sand  certainly, what grade sandpaper?

post #17 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kokopuffs View Post
 

+1 ^^^^^^^^^^

 

My Sabatiers with CS blades, all have silver and not gold colored rivets.  The blades are pitted both from the pouring of the metal and use over the decades.


This knife is not a vintage example I've been looking at these knives and vintage examples have the silvery rivets my is from 1998 about's . I ordered new in 98' so it's a 90s example we can assume, perhaps . 

 

thank's 

 

PS I could list the knife as, "attributed to"...................... if I sell . 

post #18 of 24

My previous post has been edited for clarity.

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply
post #19 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kokopuffs View Post
 

My previous post has been edited for clarity.


Alright, there from the 70's. My are from the 90's.  I wonder when the brass rivets began . 

post #20 of 24

I don't know as to what Thiers-Issard's practices were or are, but I have a very new (less than 2 years old) K-Sab carbon steel chef's knife with copper rivets, and several Veritable "Chef au Ritz" carbon steel chef's knives with copper rivets.

 

This weekend, when I visit my brother and sister-in-law, I will look at a Thiers-Issard 4-Star Elephant from the late 1970's, and will look at the rivets (the knife was given to my sister-in-law by my father, who at the time was a salesman for a kitchenware distribution firm, which included T-I cutlery).

 

 

Galley Swiller

post #21 of 24
As about the OP's Wüsthof, the version with küllens looks like this.

http://www.houseofknives.ca/site_assets/www.houseofknives.ca/images/Pictures%20web/4176.jpg
post #22 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benuser View Post

As about the OP's Wüsthof, the version with küllens looks like this.

http://www.houseofknives.ca/site_assets/www.houseofknives.ca/images/Pictures%20web/4176.jpg


Thank you, that's the one .

      Got it used, and slightly beat up on eBay for $45 delivered. I like this knife and find A Santoku almost all I need in a big knife except for carving and bread I have a long slicer an old Flint too . Trying to make do with what I have in the house, in the sharpening department, I found the video "sharpening on the cheap". So I did some experimenting with both knives. It's true the Wusthof doesn't respond too well with the wet sanding but I got the knife looking a heck of a lot better in general. I've also discovered that with my F. Dick Multi cut, I can get a very good sharp edge, perhaps not professionally sharp but good enough for me and finish it off with a little wet sandpaper to smooth out the toothyness of the edge. Making do, and putting  little pieces of information together, can save time , money, and answer needs sometimes faster. 

post #23 of 24
As I far as I know, you can't recover the initial performance of granton or küllen edges once they got a bit thick behind the edge. Your Thiers-Issard, though, can perform much better after a bit of thinning, a few corrections and some decent sharpening. And it isn't that hard to have them perform much better than brand new.
Edited by Benuser - 1/17/15 at 8:53am
post #24 of 24

As I promised earlier, I have inspected a pre-1980 Thiers Issard carbon steel 250 mm chef's knife, and the rivets are silkverish in color.

 

Checking the web site of thebestthings.com, an internet seller of both stainless and carbon steel T-I knives, I can see that both stainless and carbon steel knives made by T-I today use copper colored rivets.

 

So, my guess is that sometime since 1980, T-I shifted from using silverish colored rivets to using copperish colored rivets, and that the color of the rivets in T-I knives is the same, no matter what the blade steel composition. 

 

For what it's worth, K Sabatier Au Carbone (carbon steel) knives use copper rivets (inspection of a personally owned K-Sab carbon steel knife).  I am unable to confirm whether current stainless steel K-Sabs use copper colored rivets.  It seems that photographs of all K Sabs are from black and white stock photo footage, and the identification of rivet color isn't discernible from the b/w photos.

 

The OP may find it useful to concentrate identification efforts on the handle, and to carefully examine the handle from various angles, including shifting the relative positions of light, handle and eye.  Other than that, final identification may not necessarily be obtainable.

 

That's probably about as much muddying of the water as I can make out.

 

 

Galley Swiller

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