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handling ganache

post #1 of 33
10/6/02 at 7:59pm
Thread Starter 
How long can ganache stay at room temp with out compromising safety?
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post #2 of 33
10/7/02 at 12:36am
I'd like to know the answer to that, too! The restaurant where I work leaves the ganache sit out overnight- sometimes a couple of nights. And that's the least of it!

Our new intern is serv-safe certified, and she must be having nightmares.:eek:
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post #3 of 33
10/7/02 at 4:43am
Well I'm sure not a scientist but I'll guess, if that's of interest....
I'd guess about 5 days. I think it would depend upon the amount of cream you have in it. The less, the longer it should last on the shelf.

It will be interesting to see the answer to this.
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post #4 of 33
10/7/02 at 6:31am
By the book I think it could stay between 40 and 140 for 4 hours. Chocolate is fairly inert, but c'mon, heavy cream? Even ultra pasteurized and boiled? A tub of ganache I left out for a while once, just to see what would happen, grew a luxurious pelt of mold. I get the creeps when I see stuff like that left out.
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post #5 of 33
10/7/02 at 6:52am

I'm just saying.........

Back in the stoneage when I was at school and after, out with the heavy hitters, it was common to leave ganach out on the counter. The flavor was greatly improved by allowing the ganach to stay at room temp for 24 hours.
Eggs and Butter were left out as was cream cheese for cheese cake the next day.

Creaming mixes was a breeze because your ingredients were ready to go.

Now I use a Microwave to bring butter and cheese to room temp or leave the bowl on top of the oven for 1/2 hour.

I keep the ganach in the cooler and warm it when needed either over dbl boiler, micro or oven top.

I dream of Unpastruized Stilton.............

:bounce:
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post #6 of 33
10/7/02 at 7:09am
We always left ganache in a 1/6 container on top of the convection oven so it would stay warm enough for ease of use at service time. At the end of the enening, it would go back in the fridge. Never had a problem. Never took its temperature though... I figure the combination of sugar and acidity from the chocolate would probably make it a tough breeding ground for the little buggers. Not to mention that there isn't much oxygen in there either and there is quite a bit of fat. I'm sure that if it's a product you make ever day or other day, and no fingers go into it (tough, I know) it should be pretty safe.
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post #7 of 33
10/7/02 at 9:32am
Thread Starter 
OK- lots of different answers here. I have a four tiered wedding cake to do. The very latest I can possibly enrobe the tiers is about 10:00 am. It needs to be delivered between two and four and probably won't get cut till 9:00pm. Is anyone going to get sick from this? Or is there a way to refrigerate it without losing the shine? Any suggestions. I have never done a cake of this magnitude before in ganache, always just small ones. HELP!
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post #8 of 33
10/7/02 at 3:01pm
I've never done this and I'm certainly no pastry expert Anna, but I have seen pastry chefs regaining the shine of a ganache with a warm blow dryer with a diffuser. Couldn't tell you if that would work on a large piece though...
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post #9 of 33
10/7/02 at 3:57pm
I've left ganache out for 24 hours with no problem, as long as I use it immediately. The surface is completely covered with plastic wrap. Longer than that no good. I'm wondering whether the 40-140F rule is the absolute rule here.
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post #10 of 33
10/8/02 at 3:57am
I wonder if you'd/we'd get an answer to this if you e-mailed this question to some of the bigger name chefs. I'll e-mail , the bakers dozen, Norman Love, The French Pastry School and Bo Frieberg.

Anyone else game to e-mail around and see if we can get an answer?
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post #11 of 33
10/8/02 at 4:17am
How 'bout the health department?

I usually leave it out overnight, but something tells me that the health dept. would not agree.
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post #12 of 33
10/8/02 at 9:00am
Thread Starter 
Wendy- you apparently have better connections than I do. You guys are it for me in the pastry world. Although, I do have some connections on the decorating side if you ever need that. I appreciate the effort!!!!!!!!! :)
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post #13 of 33
10/8/02 at 3:29pm
I leave mine out(covered) on the counter over night to firm, no problem. Never more than that, couldn't tell ya.

Does that still go for Lemon Curd?
Still in the 4 hour window.
Love the stuff, but do not use it in my cakes.
I don't fridge my fondant cakes. They're in a super cold room.
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post #14 of 33
10/9/02 at 3:46am
I don't have any connections Anna, I just go to their web sites and e-mail them.

I got an answer from J. Torres (site) this morning. They wrote they have special equipment so theirs lasts 5 weeks. They just said yours won't last as long.


Not a solid 'answer'.

No one else answered, yet.
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post #15 of 33
10/9/02 at 5:41am
The FDA guidelines are not specific enough to tell you it falls into the 4 hour window.
There are some items that fall into this catagory, cheese danish etc.
You are changing the structure , the same as when you bake cake with eggs and milk.
Anna,
Even if it falls into this window, from the responces it appears
that you won't make someone sick.
I refrigerate mine, but have left finished products with it out past the window.
I'd just thought I'd answer before WDeBords email came:D
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post #16 of 33
10/9/02 at 1:19pm
Boiling the cream effectively sterilizes it, I don't think realistically the 4 hour window is something to get nervous about. I think we might be talking about a several day life at room temp. The mold I grew took weeks of leaving it out, but it sure got fuzzy.
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post #17 of 33
10/9/02 at 1:49pm
well I can't really remember where I heard this or if it's even true, but chocolate is an ideal enviornment for growing bacteria. I have heard that it is even used to do just that in research.
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post #18 of 33
10/9/02 at 2:52pm
The chocolate with the cream is a bigger threat than just the chocolate.

Helpful hints:
when spooning out your ganach wear gloves and use a clean spoon. the leftover bacteria from your hand will leave a trail and if left out for sevaeral days or left in the cooler a few months you will see the trail of growth!
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post #19 of 33
10/9/02 at 5:56pm
Chocolate can have a shelf life of two years, can't believe it's that susceptible to bacterial growth all by itself. If you've ever gotten a spec sheet from a manufacturer they do test for e.coli. But the points in the last post are probably valid. months in the fridge..the new bakery leader at the earthy crunchy store where I work part time had me make a bucket o ganache a long time ago and it's still in the walkin, and as far as I know it's not fuzzy. But I won't use it.
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post #20 of 33
10/9/02 at 6:01pm
TBH,
I'll run it by my next door neighbor, research doctor. See what she says.
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post #21 of 33
10/9/02 at 6:14pm
J'a ever notice how the fuzz grows on the spots where condensation drops fall on the surface of the ganach? (if you keep it long enough in the walk-in this will happen, it happened to me.....)

there is stuff in the air man, you can't see it but it's there!:p
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post #22 of 33
10/10/02 at 1:32am
I guess bacteria are all natural, earthy-crunchy, huh?
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post #23 of 33
10/10/02 at 2:12am
Even if you don't see mold, it can get sour. I've kept it in the freezer for a couple months, but not in the fridge. If it's not going to be used within a week, get it in the freezer.
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post #24 of 33
10/10/02 at 4:10am
Heres the response I recieved from Pastry Chef Central.

"There are several types of ganche heavy cream/liquid ganche, butter ganche and sometimes egg yolks are added to create a richer ganche. Ganche can be stored at room temperature for 7 days, but you should refridgerate. If yolks are used it should be refridgerated at all times."
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post #25 of 33
10/10/02 at 8:34am
Not sure if it means anything, but here in Delaware (yes it's a state, not a city in Pennsylvania), we have a very strict health department. Here's what they say... if it comes out of the package and is not a shlef-stable item (i.e. crackers) then it falls under the 72-hours rule of use it in less than 3 days or throw it out. Also, ANY food item that modified from its original state must be held below 40 or above 140, no exceptions to either rule. So, theoretically, will it make you sick... probably not. But if somebody claims illness from it and the ganache has been resting above the oven at around 100, you will get nailed.
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post #26 of 33
10/10/02 at 2:01pm
A state? I thought it was a river.
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post #27 of 33
10/11/02 at 8:53am
I've always stayed away from eggyolks in the ganache. We always put it in the fridge and then pulled it out and put it on top of the oven in the morning. It would be ready in a coupla hours.

Kuan
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post #28 of 33
10/19/02 at 11:44pm
When I worked at Fresh Fields, we left a small batch of ganache out at room temp. for quick writing on cakes. Cool room temperature, we could leave it out for maybe 3 or 4 days. When it was warmer and more humid, we'd see mold a lot sooner.

To keep the shine, there is a product that Albert Uster makes. I saw a chocolate demo there with Susan Notter (when she was still their Executive Pastry Chef) and she added some clear gelatinous goop to her ganache and boy was it SHINEY!
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post #29 of 33
11/23/02 at 12:33pm
We've made and used litterally tons of Ganache in the pastry shop and have never seen it go bad. Whole milk and unsalted margine is brought to a hard boil, then poured into the Hobart bowl over 50#'s of chocolate. Let it stand 5 mins and mix on low for ten. Strain into a clean deep tub and chill overnight. We would pull a cold one out also for the next days use. With all my food science and chemistry training it is chemically preserved with the fat and acid content. Thats in the old-world. Today though with HACCP and GMP's I'd have a hard time convincing a county inspector that it has to be left out at room temp.:chef: Blair
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post #30 of 33
12/9/02 at 7:18pm
A quick shot of a hair dryer (not the one in the bathroom) will bring out the shine on a dull ganache without the need for any additional 'stuff.':lips:
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