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Is french cuisine underrated - Page 3

post #61 of 71
Thread Starter 
For the bocuse d'or and the pastry World cup There are 24 judges(who are all acclaimed chefs thomas keller was the judge for the US) from the 24 countries performing(which means 1 judge from France 1 from US,1 from Danemark....) here is the list of the judges and candidates for the 2015 edition: 
and Yes France dominated last 10 years.last 10 years France won 3 out of 6  party World cups (even though they didn't participate in 2015 So That sounds more like 3 out of 5) 3 out of 6  bocuse d'or,4 out of 6  taittainger cups.these championships are the most relevant and the hardest ones.If you wana see some amazing looking dishes look at what is made at the Bocuse d'or it's always outstanding 

Team US Did very well this year they finished 2nd and earned the "bocuse d'argent" they Also finished 3rd at the pastry World cup.
this year France didnt  even participate to  the pastry World cup and finished 7th at the Bocuse d'or which is our worst result ever :/ 

"Ramsey runs a 3 star restaurant" wow I didnt know he had a 3 starred restaurant.does he Still have his 3 stars ? 

Well Yh obviously if he doesnt know the cooking techniques  being used he cannot judge the dish. I already watched many shows With Gordon ramsey.compared to the french shows we have here.He is clearly not a good judge. it's astonishing how french judges analyze the dishes and how they are able just by  watching to tell which mistakes were made and to tell every ingredients which were used and how the dish was done..... I'm very suprised That Gordon ramsey has 3 stars With his skillset and his level of requirement O_o 
 I Would be ashamed to give That to a great chef.....I Would barely give That to my dog: seriously a starred chef impressed by a "sausauge roll" !? I'm not sure if he was serious or just trolling.If the judges were Yannick alléno or jean François piège  they Would have not even tasted the dish because it looks depressing,and there is no work in this dish it seems.
post #62 of 71

I'm going to violate one of my rules of discussion and address you not the topic.


You've not demonstrated that the chefs or judges from these lists have the abilities you ascribe to "true chefs" This is a logical fallacy that falls into the no true Scotsman category. 


 First i think That every chefs have similar ways of judging.It means That if you ask to 300 great chefs to judge your dish and you know That one said your dish was excellent it probably means every other chefs Will find your dish excellent.if every competent chefs agrees it is NOT an opinion anymore but a fact: your dish is excellent.


Ramsay is a competent chef. He gets things wrong as well. Chefs are not infallible with perfect knowledge of all cuisines and foods.  I strongly dislike Ramsay on as portrayed on TV, but when he gets down to cooking, he can certainly cook well and run a restaurant.  


It's time to move past just what you think and into what can be demonstrated. 

Palace of the Brine -- "I hear the droning in the shrine of the sea monkeys." Saltair
Palace of the Brine -- "I hear the droning in the shrine of the sea monkeys." Saltair
post #63 of 71
Thread Starter 
"you have not demonstrated That the chefs or judges from this list
have the ability you ascribe to "true chefs" this is a logical fallacy which falls into the no true scotsman category"
My logic is usually pretty solid lol.I don't remember using the term "true chefs" though
Well there are no real ways to "demonstrate" That french cooking is the best 
Many things regarded as true are not demonstrated 
As an exemple we all know That Nadal is a better tennis player Than monfils yet this cannot be "demonstrated"
But If one analizes both players feats,Head to head record objectively he Will realize That nadal is a better player for sure
post #64 of 71

post #65 of 71
French style, not to be a dick, I am a frenchie at heart, but if you can't even lay out what these objective standards of good food are (and passing it off to the super magical awesome chefs doesn't count) then you are firing blanks here. I love the idea that you boost for french cuisine but by trying to appeal to bs standards you going about it all wrong.
post #66 of 71
Also, Nadal is a terrible Bowler.
post #67 of 71

Curious. NPR just did a thing on the french attempting to legislate french cooking as a cultural landmark like the Eiffel Tower.  "They want to preserving the country's gastronomic heritage" as a "national identity."  


I haven't read all the posts, but I would agree with Phatch. French cooking is overrated, and I'm sure many will disagree. Still very good and a crucial component of global cuisine. Many other countries/ ethnicities use the exact same techniques, yet we are made to think they originated in france. Sure, some recipe specific techniques originated with french dishes, but that exists with many other cultures as well. I just don't think French cooking and technique is the best in the world. Too many others that are equally delicious and elaborate, imo. Studying traditional chinese cooking will make your head spin. 


I tend to think Julia Child had a lot to do with french cooking popularity for your average person, and it has just been replaced with other equally good food from other places. It's the food "du jour." See? Nobody says "buen provecho." Instead, we have been culturally tagged with "bon appetite." How to you say Maillard reaction in Japanese? Words used, I would guess, originated with the brigade style of running a kitchen?  


I live in NYC, and there is no shortage of french brasseries, btw. 

post #68 of 71

I don't think, in the states at least, that French cuisine is "underrated."  And the argument that French cuisine is somehow objectively "the best" across the board is just plain silly. And, as others have pointed out--Which French Cuisine are you talking about? From Brittany? Provence? Alsace? Paris? Southwest France?  I have one extensive cookbook just on the breads of France and they are many and varied, the standard baguette notwithstanding. I also have a number of French cookbooks, and, I have to admit, they are not books I cook from a lot except  for the ones that focus on vegetable- heavy Provencal dishes.


I'm a total Francophile. One of my closest friends is Parisian and I don't think even she would try to make the argument that somehow French cuisine stands alone as the best in the world. Now...if we got on the topic of cheeses or wine, she might have a dog in the fight. 


French food just doesn't enter into the picture for most people. I live in a city of 2 million people, a metro area of 10 million, and, while I have eaten lots of French food, I have not once eaten it in a French restaurant here. I had to actually Google "French restaurants Chicago" to come up with the name of more than two or three in the whole city.


It turns out that there are several. Most of them are quite expensive and not located in neighborhoods where most people who live in the city actually reside. A few are flat out fancy, white tablecloth places. Way out of my budget and I'm not that interested in the food. A lot claim to be bistros or brasseries but I don't recall bistros or brasseries being expensive when I visited France & I ate wonderful food while I was there. So, why is it expensive here?


I don't think all French food is inherently better than any other food I could choose to eat instead. I have access to excellent, much less expensive Middle Eastern, Japanese, Indian, Chinese, Korean, Persian, Vietnamese, Italian, Turkish, Greek, Mexican, Thai and Ethiopian food, just to name a few, without having to leave my neighborhood. If I'm going to drop a lot of money on a special meal, I'm going to go to one of the restaurants headed up by one of Chicago's more innovative, more individualistic chefs. We have many. Right now the restaurant I am most looking forward to opening is right on my corner--it will be a farm-to-table Mexican place with a rooftop garden, headed up by a female chef.

post #69 of 71

With the risk of being shot down in a flaming ball of fire...


Maybe it is the attitude that the French bring forward a lot of the time...

Best cheese, best wine, best art, best.......really??


I tip my hat to any and all cooks and chefs that are capable of putting a traditional French dish onto the plate, and I have worked in Paris, Lyon, Marseille and even a little unknown town of Laval, and the food is amazing.

But then, yes, then again, there goes some French chef claiming the French cuisine is the best in the world and I cringe.


Have you ever been to Asia?

Tasted the flavor explosions in Thai cuisine, tasted the humble yet oh so exotic dishes of Papua New Guinea? Walked along the shores and samples some New Zealand native dishes?

If not - how can we assume it is the best in the world?


Why is Italian cuisine so much better received - it is easier accessible

I don't have to study culinary arts to understand Italian cuisine.


So for my part - huge fan of French cuisine, but would definitely never call it the best in the world - nor would I call any cuisine the best in the world.

It all comes down to personal preference, up bringing, home flavors, etc...


Take Pinot Noir for example (just to point out the French attitude to having the best wine) - 2014 French Pinot Noirs (Burgundy) loosing 3 to 5 to German Pinot Noirs. Germany....really!? We are talking about the land of Beer and Sausages (not really, but you get my drift).


Take my comment with a grain of salt - but I do believe that it all comes down to many things, one of them being, accessibility.

And traveling to France...better learn French then - because that is one issue that still has not really been resolved over there :)

post #70 of 71
So for my part - huge fan of French cuisine, but would definitely never call it the best in the world - nor would I call any cuisine the best in the world.

 I couldn't agree more!!!

post #71 of 71
Sort of a postscript to this thread that speaks to the perception issues we have been talking:

This conversation got me thinking about what I might do for a cinco de mayo menu. I was driving with my wife and spit balling ideas. I was thinking on playing to a post colonial theme,and doing french inspired tacos, maybe on soca. I said something about a beef bourguignon style filling and got an "oooh, fancy" response. Um, really? Any more than a nice carneta? It's weird!
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