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On Dutch Oven (preheating and alternatives)

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 

Hi guys,

 

An absolute beginner here. Tried googling for the answer but I couldn't find any, so here I am.

 

I want to start learning how to cook and I'm using Tim Ferriss' 4 Hour Chef as a guide. The first recipe calls for the use of Dutch oven to cook Osso "Buko".

 

He mentioned to preheat the dutch oven to 350 Fahrenheit. How do I do this? Put it on a stove top or into the oven? How do I check the temperature to make sure it's 350F?

 

If I have a stock pot with a glass lid, can I use it to substitute Dutch oven?

 

Thank you!

PJ

post #2 of 25

It could be a typo/editing mistake.  Does he continue to cook in the oven or on the stove top? That would be the best guide to what he meant.

 

From the way it's phrased, I think he means to heat the dutch oven  in an oven set to 350. Probably take about 20-30 minutes from cold, varying some by oven. 

Palace of the Brine -- "I hear the droning in the shrine of the sea monkeys." Saltair
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Palace of the Brine -- "I hear the droning in the shrine of the sea monkeys." Saltair
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post #3 of 25

Preheat on the stove. It surely is to sear the floured ossobuco. Latter on you can braise on the stove or in the oven. And yes, you can use your stock pot with the glass lid, but check there're not plastic or wooden parts.

Gebe Gott uns allen, uns Trinkern, einen so leichten und so schönen Tod! Joseph Roth.
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Gebe Gott uns allen, uns Trinkern, einen so leichten und so schönen Tod! Joseph Roth.
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post #4 of 25
Thread Starter 

Hi guys, thank you so much for your responses. I've read through the instructions and have "kind of" figured it out, but I'll type his instructions out here to clarify.

 

"00. Preheat the oven to 350F. Place a PanSaver, if using, in the Dutch oven.

 

01. Place the carrots in the pot to create a bed for the meat to rest on.

 

02. Add the 4 lamb shank.

 

...

 

08. Cover the pot, put it in the oven, and come back 2 hours later."

 

So I'm guessing what he meant over here was to set the temperature of the oven to 350F, put the ingredients into the Dutch Oven (let's call it a pot here), then put the pot into the oven.

 

Do you guys have any recommendations for an oven to buy too? He didn't include any recommendations in his book. Any specific areas I should look out for when purchasing an oven?

 

Thank you.

post #5 of 25
I just posted in your thread re purchasing an oven.
Paired with this thread I have a suggestion for you.

You want to learn to cook.
Kudos.....
From what info I was able to gather from your posts you may need to take a few basic classes.
No need to go all out and enroll in a culinary school.
Look around in your area for some classes.
There is an adult learning center that offers beginner cooking classes ( as well as a host of other hobbies)
Don't have the catalog at hand but try LLU.com .
I do know they offer learning experiences in lots of different cities.

mimi

edit... I always forget about YouTube .
A wealth of information at the tip of your fingers!
Any day, any time!

m.
Edited by flipflopgirl - 3/29/15 at 9:38am
post #6 of 25

I also posted in your oven thread.

 

You are starting with what seems to me a terrible recipe if, indeed, you have posted it as written. I'm hoping there is some liquid added at some point before you put that pot in the oven. Usually before you put meat in to braise, you brown it well first.

 

I'm not sure what he means by a pan-saver. I think if you are going to try to do this in a stock pot rather than a thicker walled cast iron dutch oven, you might want to lower the heat a bit and check it well before that 2 hours are up, especially if you are using a small oven. It might need more liquid than called for.

post #7 of 25

He might have meant a dutch oven insert. http://www.amazon.com/Disposable-liners-Cleaning-Seasoning-ovens/dp/B0052Y83NU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1427666797&sr=8-1&keywords=dutch+oven+insert

 

 

He might have meant a flame tamer/diffuser disk, but that would have been used under the oven.

Palace of the Brine -- "I hear the droning in the shrine of the sea monkeys." Saltair
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Palace of the Brine -- "I hear the droning in the shrine of the sea monkeys." Saltair
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post #8 of 25

I'm not a fan of the method or the recipe either:

 

Quote:
1 Preheat the oven to 350°F (180°C). Place a PanSaver, if using, in the Dutch oven.
2 Place the carrots in the pot to create a bed for the meat to rest on.
3 Add the 4 lamb shanks.
4 Sprinkle in the 3-finger pinch of garlic powder or 5 cloves of raw garlic.
5 Drizzle in about 2 T EVOO. Don’t sweat the precision. A decent “glug” is approximately 2 T.
6 Add enough white wine to cover ½–¾ of the meat. Don’t cover it completely.
7 Grind 10 hard turns of pepper onto your shanks (add more than you think you need), and add two 3- finger pinches of kosher salt, sprinkling from a height of 12" (30 cm). This will create an even spread and prevent clumps of salt.
8 Cover the pot, put it in the oven, and come back 2 hours later.
9 Serve on VerTerra pressed-leaf disposable plates, or whatever you have. Gracefully accept lavish praise from guests. If you’ve used a PanSaver, here’s the great part: just bunch up the edges so you have the leftovers in a bag, and put it in the fridge in a pan or dispose of it. No cleaning other than your silverware! One Michelin three-star chef believes braised meats taste best 3 days after cooking
 

 

 

 

My recommendations: 

 

1. Don't use a pansaver. 

2. Remove the shanks for the fridge 1 hr before cooking. 

3. Season the shanks with S & P, and some dry spices if you want. 

4. Slowly preheat your stock pot on the stovetop (on low-mid for about 3 or 4 minutes). 

5. Add 2T oil in the stock pot. 

6. Add the shanks and let them brown, turning them so they brown on all sides (or on as many sides as humanely possible). 

7. Remove the shanks and add diced onions, season the onions with salt, turn with a wooden spoon to lift the stuck caramelized juices from the pot.

8. Add carrots and cook for a few minutes. 

9. Add shanks and white wine, cover with lid, turn heat to low and try to keep at a simmer for about 2 hours or until the meat is tender. 

 

That's a very basic recipe, I would probably add some spices or veggies to make the braising liquid a bit more exciting. 

post #9 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by pjrocknlock View Post
 

.....

 

I want to start learning how to cook and I'm using Tim Ferriss' 4 Hour Chef as a guide. The first recipe calls for the use of Dutch oven to cook Osso "Buko"....

 

...If I have a stock pot with a glass lid, can I use it to substitute Dutch oven?

 

 

I wouldn't trust a food writer with a recipe called osso buko. Also, a recipe has to be clear for any cook, beginner and other cooks.

 

You can certainly use a glass lid on a pot... or a pan. At least, that's what I do when making ossobuco. I made another one yesterday. I use a stainless large pan in which all the pieces of meat can be put next to each other, not on top of each other; very important when braising all kinds of food, that's why pans with a lid are more fit for braising. You can buy glass lids for any size of pot or pan. I have a few that fit a number of pots and pans.

 

Look on todays "What's for dinner" thread for pictures of my ossobuco.

post #10 of 25
Thread Starter 

Hello, thanks for the various replies again. As I'm a complete novice (have never cooked before), other than basic local courses do you guys have any recommendations for any source of information that I can learn from? I settled with Tim Ferriss' book as it seems the easiest. Thank you.

post #11 of 25

My favorites for this purpose are:

 

Cooking by James Peterson. The older version of this is good too, Essentials of Cooking. This will give you technique and sample recipes using the technique. This is a great starting point because while you think you want just want to make food, learning the techniques that underlie food lets you improvise more on your own and get better faster. Use this book first. Then come back to this book at 6 months and 12 months. You'll learn something new each time as your own experience lets you understand what the book really has to offer.  Cook's Illustrated Cooking School is OK for this too. I think Peterson is better though. 

 

In between your uses of Cooking, recipe books are good practice and help you explore different flavors and cuisines. The Joy of Cooking is a classic and covers lots of good things. If you want to try more specific cuisines we can make more detailed recommendations. I also like the Cook's Illustrated books at this point in someone learning cooking. The Cook's Illustrated books have well tested recipes and explain the different things they tried in building the recipe as well as useful explanations of why the recipe works the way it does. You'll pick up some food science and some good dishes. The latest edition of their The Best Recipe is a good start with Cook's Illustrated. 

 

Then back to Petersons Cooking. This time ask yourself questions about why did he do it that way? What's the benefit of this pan or that knife or this much heat, or whatever thing he's doing. Try to explain it to yourself.

 

After that, get more cuisine specific. Italian, Greek, Middle East, China, India, Thai. Whatever cuisine appeals to you. i do encourage you to look at the classic continental cuisines of Europe. Most of the technique that Peterson discusses arose from these cuisines. While Asian cuisine does a lot of the same kinds of things, they also do some things quite differently. 

Palace of the Brine -- "I hear the droning in the shrine of the sea monkeys." Saltair
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Palace of the Brine -- "I hear the droning in the shrine of the sea monkeys." Saltair
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post #12 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by pjrocknlock View Post
 

Hello, thanks for the various replies again. As I'm a complete novice (have never cooked before), other than basic local courses do you guys have any recommendations for any source of information that I can learn from? I settled with Tim Ferriss' book as it seems the easiest. Thank you.

I highly recommend rouxbe.com - pricey but well worth the price. 

post #13 of 25

Ditch the Tim Ferriss. He is not a cookbook writer, a cook or, even, a knowledgeable food writer. He is a food supplement entrepreneur, an angel investor, a tech consultant and a self-styled  lifestyle guru who has written facile books on living the life of the wealthy while only working 4 hours a week, building your body on 4 hours of exercise a week, etc. He knows nothing of value on food or cooking. I sell books for a living. I would never recommend this book to anyone.

 

James Peterson, as noted above, is very good.

 

Joy of Cooking, if you are in the states, is an excellent basic book that will see you through both the first part of learning and will be used as a reference for the rest of your days. Go for the 75th Anniversary Edition, not the 1997 "revised" edition.

post #14 of 25
This is my standard gift to kids going off to college, getting first apartment, 4H food and nutrition contest prizes.......
http://www.amazon.com/Cook-Everything-Completely-Revised-Anniversary-ebook/dp/B00BS03W5Q/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1427773451&sr=1-1&keywords=how+to+cook+everything

mimi

Good basic recipes and techniques.
post #15 of 25

Personally, just not a fan of Bittman's work. I've had way too many failures from his recipes and also dislike his writing style. 

Palace of the Brine -- "I hear the droning in the shrine of the sea monkeys." Saltair
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Palace of the Brine -- "I hear the droning in the shrine of the sea monkeys." Saltair
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post #16 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoTerry View Post
 

Ditch the Tim Ferriss. He is not a cookbook writer, a cook or, even, a knowledgeable food writer. He is a food supplement entrepreneur, an angel investor, a tech consultant and a self-styled  lifestyle guru who has written facile books on living the life of the wealthy while only working 4 hours a week, building your body on 4 hours of exercise a week, etc. He knows nothing of value on food or cooking. I sell books for a living. I would never recommend this book to anyone.

 

James Peterson, as noted above, is very good.

 

Joy of Cooking, if you are in the states, is an excellent basic book that will see you through both the first part of learning and will be used as a reference for the rest of your days. Go for the 75th Anniversary Edition, not the 1997 "revised" edition.


Hello all, thanks for the input. I will check out James Peterson's books at the local library tomorrow.

 

Sir, may I know if you've looked through the 4 hour chef? Being a novice myself I cannot comment on the quality of 4 hour chef, but I feel that his other books are misunderstood to a certain degree, largely because of the way he overhyped and marketed his products. Would like to know your thoughts thank you.

post #17 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by phatch View Post

Personally, just not a fan of Bittman's work. I've had way too many failures from his recipes and also dislike his writing style. 

I have read more than a few reviews along those same lines, phatch.
But when there are a zillion reviews on something I expect to come across some bad in with the good.
The kids always give me glowing reports.
They esp like having recipes that can be easily changed into another dish with the addition of a few ingredients.
Maybe I will borrow my daughter's copy and give it a whirl.
What recipes did you have problems with?
May have to find a new "first" cookbook to gift.

mimi
post #18 of 25
I agree about Bittman. As a reference book its pretty lacking.
post #19 of 25
Ok.
I get it.
Most of these kids know their way around a pit (they are Texans after all lol) and can run a toaster.
Obviously their moms have taught them good manners re gifts.
Have pity on me and supply a few titles.
Under $50........

mimi
post #20 of 25

A lot of my Bittman bias comes from a book about 20 years ago. It was yellow and had Minimalist in big letters. This doesn't match anything I can find on Amazon right now. This was supposed to be simple, fast great dishes, usually with a minimum of ingredients (5 seems to ring a bell in my memory, though water, oil, salt and pepper didn't count). It was fairly early in my cooking and I had seen how simplicity treated right could be great. But this wasn't it.

 

Then he made it to PBS and I became more disappointed. Bitman takes on  America's Great Chef's. He was humiliated in  episode after episode where his dishes were just lame.  Then Best Recipes of the World there's a particularly egregious episode with Mario Batali. They're out in the Italian countryside to cook beef steak florentine. Batali does the classic thing with olive oil, lemon and fresh herbs, rosemary as I recall. Simple, Italian, great flavors.  (Though he totally botches the beans in a flask--no clue how to get them out. My guess is he hadn't ever done it before and thought it would be simpler than it was).

 

Bittman steps up to the grill and does this, even keeping the Bisteca Fiorentina label. 

 
Quote:
Mark Bittman's Bistecca Fiorentina (Tuscan Grilled Steak) with Soy Butter

print_icon.gif

 

MAKES 4 SERVINGS
TIME 30 MINUTES, PLUS TIME TO PREHEAT THE GRILL

In front of a grill in the idyllic Tuscan countryside, Mario accused me of heresy when I whipped up soy sauce-butter and spooned it over a gorgeously charred steak. ("Butter?" he scoffed, "In Tuscany?") But trust me, it's delicious, and that's what matters. You probably won't be able to find the Moby Dick-size steaks cut from Chianina cattle that we cooked, so just use the best, thickest ones you can find.

 

 
1 2-pound porterhouse or T-bone steak, about 1 ¾ inches thick
Extra virgin olive oil
4 tablespoons unsalted butter
1 tablespoon soy sauce, or to taste
 
1. Start a charcoal or gas grill or preheat the broiler; the fire should be quite hot and the rack 4 to 6 inches from the heat source. Brush lightly with olive oil, and grill the steak for about 6 to 8 minutes per side for medium rare, turning only once (an instant-read thermometer should read about 125 F when inserted into the thickest part); cooking time, of course, will depend on the thickness of the steak and the heat of the fire.
2. While the steak is cooking, add the butter to a small saucepan over the grill or on the stovetop over a medium heat. When butter just begins to foam, add the soy sauce and remove the pan from the heat.
3. Transfer the steak to a cutting board and cut against the grain into 1/3-inch thick slices. Transfer the slices to a platter, drizzle with butter sauce, and serve.

http://www.randomhouse.com/crown/features/bittman/main.php?p=recipes&recipe_mode=0&recipe_section=5&recipe=recipes/06/bisteca_florentina.php

 

Notice it's not even seasoned before cooking except with olive oil. Which isn't going to do much against the high heat of the fire.  And Batali wasn't that impressed. Bittman had to keep coaching him to say how good it was. I use soy on my steaks routinely. I like it. But this is Bisteca Fiorentina wer're talking about. it's a classic defined dish. Bittman exhibits low cluefulness in much of his cooking when you get right down to it. 

 

Or the Batali/Bittman/Paltrow series. The episodes with Bittman are all about Bittman and they drag. The episodes with just Paltrow and Batali are all about the food and cooking. 

Palace of the Brine -- "I hear the droning in the shrine of the sea monkeys." Saltair
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Palace of the Brine -- "I hear the droning in the shrine of the sea monkeys." Saltair
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post #21 of 25
Nuf said.
I am glad this subject came up and you guys took the time to educate me.
Oh Lordy am I gonna be embarrassed this summer.
I will be seeing quite a few of those "kids" (some all grown up with families of their own) at our annual 4th of July get together.
Will prolly just buy a stack of decent CBs to hand around to those unlucky enuf to have received Bittman's CB instead of a Halmark card with some cash tucked inside lol.
Or offer to buy them back?

mimi

I will have to hunt down those videos and get a peek .
Soy sauce ? That and butter. Really?????

m.
Edited by flipflopgirl - 3/31/15 at 3:22pm
post #22 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by flipflopgirl View Post

Soy sauce ? That and butter. Really?????


Yeah, on an olive-oil-brushed steak that was left 8mn per side on a hot grill? That doesn't even sound good. :eek:

post #23 of 25

I'm not a sir and yes I've looked through the book. It's not a good cookbook by any stretch of the imagination.

post #24 of 25

I actually don't hate Bittman. He's not the cb author to look to for technique, but I do pull out How to Cook Everything pretty often when I'm stuck and need to get something on the table in a relative hurry. I also really liked his Minimalist column in the Times.

 

I like his "you can do this" approach and the many alternative takes he gives on basic dishes by changing up combinations of seasonings, etc. The food is fresh and generally edible and he encourages experimentation in a non-threatening way.  There are a few dishes in one of his other books that I make pretty often. It may even be the book that Phatch dislikes so much. Kitchen Express is fast dishes but it really isn't meant for beginning cooks and I think he says so in the intro. They do usually take longer than the promised 20 minutes.

 

Now, that food show with Bittman, Gwyneth Paltrow, Mario Batali and Penelope Cruz I found unbearable. Penelope Cruz was the only one on the screen I could stand to watch.

post #25 of 25

I don't know the book, but miss The Minimalist episodes on NYT. I can't get to like Melissa Clark.

Gebe Gott uns allen, uns Trinkern, einen so leichten und so schönen Tod! Joseph Roth.
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Gebe Gott uns allen, uns Trinkern, einen so leichten und so schönen Tod! Joseph Roth.
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