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A little chicken to try (?)

post #1 of 12
Thread Starter 
I do a lot of stovetop cooking, but rarely bake anything. So, that being said, please treat this thread like an "oven for dummy's" thread.

My situation is that chicken hind quarters were on sale and I'm trying to concoct a bunch of pre made meals for the next couple
days.

Here is the damage so far:
-Chose to skin so that it can handle sugar
-Left bone in
-Marinated in souvlaki

Here is my goal:
-Greek with lemon pepper or dill pilaf
Then
-Baste/broil with BBQ sauce on rack last minute. Toss in tinfoil taters with onion soup mix and butter as chicken goes in
-Add to the final chicken quarter the same bbq sauce with a little sesame oil, ginger and sarachi so that I can cook it together with the others. Serve with stirfry over rice.

My logic:
Maybe the souvlaki marinade contains ingredients that will marry well into all three ideas?

My failure might be:
-I've never heard of anyone using both a marinade and a sauce. There must be a reason?
-Maybe I shouldn't have skinned?
-Will that many flavors overwhelm, or will it compliment?

So, basically I have five already marinated skinless parts. That can't be undone, so greek is going to have to happen... Dare I try my other two ideas? Why or why not? Thanks in advance!
post #2 of 12

I'd have to say marinade and sauce is done all the time.  And now that you've jogged my memory the next time I make bbq chicken I'll marinade first with 2:1 parts coriander and cumin, olive oil and lemon.

 

 

Rick

post #3 of 12

I gather so much knowledge here and waiting for your new post.thanks for your great post.

post #4 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Alan View Post

I'd have to say marinade and sauce is done all the time.  And now that you've jogged my memory the next time I make bbq chicken I'll marinade first with 2:1 parts coriander and cumin, olive oil and lemon.


Rick

Hey Rick; thanks for the reply. Ever consider a pinch of cinnamon and cayenne in your marinade? I'm just a cookie rookie who may be very wrong. I will try it first so that you can't sue for loss of tasty meat and let you know if results are palatable.

I appreciate your feedback. I honestly thought people would tell me it was a horrible idea. In an ironic twist, my fridge broke down during marination process so I had ramen instead.
post #5 of 12

Cinnamon, anise and clove are 3 that probably get used as often as they should.  Cinnamon is of course 1 of the 5 in five-spice powder.  Cacoila (pronounced casula) is an absolutely wonderful Portuguese pulled pork dish and cinnamon is really the only standout ingredient, it really makes the dish.

 

Outside of ham be careful with clove, 3 of them is plenty for 2 pounds of beef, mousaka is the only place I used clove so far outside of studding a ham.  Chefedb recently commented using it to make béchamel.

 

 

Rick


Edited by Rick Alan - 3/27/15 at 1:18pm
post #6 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Alan View Post

Cinnamon, anise and clove are 3 that probably get used as often as they should.  Cinnamon is of course 1 of the 5 in five-spice powder.  Cacoila (pronounced casula) is an absolutely wonderful Portuguese pulled pork dish and cinnamon is really the only standout ingredient, it really makes the dish.

Outside of ham be careful with clove, 3 of them is plenty for 2 pounds of beef, mousaka is the only place I used clove so far outside of studding a ham.  Chefedb recently commented using it to make béchamel.


Rick

I agree 100%. I have mentioned in a recent post that there is very little I enjoy about cinnamon, but on rare occasion I've found it to compliment certain dishes. When you mentioned BBQ in a marinade consisting of coriander and cumin, it reminded me of an Asian BBQ sauce I basted on a pork tenderloin years back which contained cinnamon and was a surprising success. I don't know how well it would fair with chicken however.

I've never been a huge fan of cumin or cloves, and also picky about coriander unless fresh, but it felt to me once you mentioned your intended ingredients that if it was me, I would possibly push the envelope with cinnamon. That is how my mind works in the kitchen; if my dish contains ingredients I'm not overly fond of, may as well combine it with other things I'm not overly fond of but have had occasional success with. If it fails its usually because it just didn't meld well with the meat I chose to pair it with, and I probably wouldn't have disliked it any less with or without the final ingredient add on.

I suppose I'm an experimenter. Oddly enough too, I love shepard's pie but despise moussaka and tourtière. For years couldn't understand why until I discovered it contained the afore mentioned spices.

I don't think I will play around with cloves or anise much, but will always play with fennel, cumin, coriander and cinnamon depending on what I'm making. My meatballs are amazing because of fennel seed! That said, I tossed out my five spice years ago and never looked back.

I've really enjoyed hearing from you, and thanks for responding back again! Look forward to reading more from you.
post #7 of 12
There's a lot going on with your dish. I don't understand why you took the skin off and what that has to do with sugar. When you cook skinless chicken it forms a tough chewy layer on the outside. The skin helps protect tr delicate flesh of the chicken while it cooks.

What's in your souvlaki marinade? If you're going Greek you can then serve it with a quick tzatziki sauce and the rice as you mentioned. Because of the acidity in a typical souvlaki marinade it doesn't really need a BBQ sauce IMO.

As for cinammon, it's not my go to spice when seasoning meat but there is a place for it. I use it in moussaka and in a Moroccan spice rub. You may like that one, it's cumin, coriander, cinammon, cayenne, salt pepper, mixed with lemon juice and olive oil to make a paste that I then rub on chicken or lamb.

"You are what you eat, so don't be fast, cheap, easy, or fake."

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"You are what you eat, so don't be fast, cheap, easy, or fake."

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post #8 of 12
Thread Starter 
I
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koukouvagia View Post

There's a lot going on with your dish. I don't understand why you took the skin off and what that has to do with sugar. When you cook skinless chicken it forms a tough chewy layer on the outside. The skin helps protect tr delicate flesh of the chicken while it cooks.

What's in your souvlaki marinade? If you're going Greek you can then serve it with a quick tzatziki sauce and the rice as you mentioned. Because of the acidity in a typical souvlaki marinade it doesn't really need a BBQ sauce IMO.

As for cinammon, it's not my go to spice when seasoning meat but there is a place for it. I use it in moussaka and in a Moroccan spice rub. You may like that one, it's cumin, coriander, cinammon, cayenne, salt pepper, mixed with lemon juice and olive oil to make a paste that I then rub on chicken or lamb.

I agree, lots going on there! To recap, my intent was to form three different dishes from a bunch of chicken quarters I bought on sale. I was trying to marinade, then bake them all before they went bad in my fridge because I didn't want them in my freezer. A butcher explained to me that once you cook a meat, its shelf life extends when refrigerated. I also wanted pre made meals.

My reasoning for skin off was I read that skin on easily scorches with a sugar based coat. Like I said, I'm new to ovens and may have been misguided. I was also ensuring that the souvlaki marinade went into the meat... Not the outside layer.i felt this way maybe I could have my Greek, and then two other meals that were not greek but BBQ. Logic being that BBQ sauce contains complimentary ingredients as the marinade.

To summerize, I wanted to cook a bunch of chicken parts three different ways, without a lot of hassle during oven time, and I wanted to flavor not only the outside, but the inside. I didn't want it floating in skin grease either, as the marinade already contained oil which I added to keep the meat moist instead of the natural saturates of the flesh.

Thanks for the advise regarding moussaka. People around here seem to love it and also the afore mentioned tourtière, but I'm not a fan. Maybe just need the right blend of seasoning minus cloves.
post #9 of 12

Regarding taking the skin off, depending on the style of cooking it can be ok but as KK points out, it is very easy to turn that outer layer into chicken jerky. If you were planning to roast these in the oven, I would consider wrapping them in foil. In the last 5 or 10 minutes you can open the foil and baste some of the residual marinade inside the foil on them to allow it to tighten up on the meat. I don't really see a reason to remove skin in order to accommodate the marinade, if you are concerned about penetration you could always score the chicken skin. The skin has a lot of fat and bastes the meat as it cooks. If you are not removing the skin for a health reason you might consider in the future creating an herb/spiced compound butter and working it under the skin of the chicken in place of your marinade, this is a common way to keep things moist while introducing flavor and still obtaining a crispy skin when roasting.

post #10 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastshores View Post

Regarding taking the skin off, depending on the style of cooking it can be ok but as KK points out, it is very easy to turn that outer layer into chicken jerky. If you were planning to roast these in the oven, I would consider wrapping them in foil. In the last 5 or 10 minutes you can open the foil and baste some of the residual marinade inside the foil on them to allow it to tighten up on the meat. I don't really see a reason to remove skin in order to accommodate the marinade, if you are concerned about penetration you could always score the chicken skin. The skin has a lot of fat and bastes the meat as it cooks. If you are not removing the skin for a health reason you might consider in the future creating an herb/spiced compound butter and working it under the skin of the chicken in place of your marinade, this is a common way to keep things moist while introducing flavor and still obtaining a crispy skin when roasting.
Thanks for the suggestion regarding scoring and compound butter!

I was never intending to apply the sauce until last few minutes, just to carmelize slightly. The chicken parts were to have been in the oven for a while prior.

It possibly would've failed anyway because I don't do well with oven foods, but figured I would try it since the bone in tact and oil in marinade might keep it moist enough.

I will never know now that my fridge rejected it enough to die before it made it into the oven during marination.

R.I.P fridge. Thanks for tolerating my pickled herring and head cheese.
post #11 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper Grind View Post


My reasoning for skin off was I read that skin on easily scorches with a sugar based coat. 

Thanks for the advise regarding moussaka. People around here seem to love it and also the afore mentioned tourtière, but I'm not a fan. Maybe just need the right blend of seasoning minus cloves.

 

It's not the skin that would scorch, it's the sugar based coating.  So whether you basted that on the skin or directly on the flesh would result in the same scorching effect.  However, this "scorching" only really applies to direct heat (grilling, or in a pan on the stovetop).  Sugar based roasting is much more gentle.  Many bbq rubs contain sugar and then the meat goes into a smoker or oven for several hours without scorching.  

 

One of my favorite marinades is soy sauce, minced garlic, grated ginger, honey, chili and sesame oil.  I marinate salmon or chicken, shake off the excess liquid and roast.

 

I'm greek, so there's no way I can hate moussaka.  Some people overdo it on the spices for sure.  Some people put anise in it and way too much clove and then yes I agree, it becomes inedible. A tiny bit of clove goes a long way, as does just a tiny bit of cinnamon.  The key is to hint at exotic flavor, not pound someone over the head with it.  It is extremely difficult to find a good moussaka in my opinion.

"You are what you eat, so don't be fast, cheap, easy, or fake."

Reply

"You are what you eat, so don't be fast, cheap, easy, or fake."

Reply
post #12 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koukouvagia View Post

It's not the skin that would scorch, it's the sugar based coating.  So whether you basted that on the skin or directly on the flesh would result in the same scorching effect.  However, this "scorching" only really applies to direct heat (grilling, or in a pan on the stovetop).  Sugar based roasting is much more gentle.  Many bbq rubs contain sugar and then the meat goes into a smoker or oven for several hours without scorching.  

One of my favorite marinades is soy sauce, minced garlic, grated ginger, honey, chili and sesame oil.  I marinate salmon or chicken, shake off the excess liquid and roast.

I'm greek, so there's no way I can hate moussaka.  Some people overdo it on the spices for sure.  Some people put anise in it and way too much clove and then yes I agree, it becomes inedible. A tiny bit of clove goes a long way, as does just a tiny bit of cinnamon.  The key is to hint at exotic flavor, not pound someone over the head with it.  It is extremely difficult to find a good moussaka in my opinion.
Your response is yet again appreciated!

I'm not really sure what caused the person who posted the recipe to form a connection between skin/sugar, but I thought maybe it had something to do with grease factor combination. I will still probably give it a shot because I'm not sure I need the skin when I have the oil content in the marinade and bone in tact.

Don't get me wrong, I love my skin under any other circumstance... I just imagined so many quarters cooking at once would have repercussions if skin was left on.

I appreciate your love for soya sauce bases, and use your suggestions frequently from marinades, to a basic stirfry with a little broth.

Another classic with me is simply toss skin on fish in buttered foil with a little maple syrup and lemon pepper. Since a lot if Greek dishes contain some sort of lemon derivative, you might enjoy it.

I kind of high jacked my own thread with that last paragraph but I'm allowed since I started it.(;
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