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Shelf Life of Fried Pastries?

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 

So I am still filling in on pastry as some of you might know and I'm trying to think of some menu ideas. I want to do a fried pastry filled with a strawberry or cherry creme patisserie as a component of a composed dessert. I would obviously need to fry ahead of time and fill with creme a la minute. I am thinking of something along the lines of a zeppole or bombolone dough but I'm open to anything really.

 

Generally how long of a shelf life will a fried pastry have? Under refrigeration or at room temperature? I ask because desserts come off of garde manger and our GM cooks struggle to say the least so making a dough and frying everyday during prep is going to slow them down even more. Can we fry off a few days ahead of time without quality suffering? I'm assuming not but it's worth it to ask I guess. Any suggestions for for getting around this problem? Perhaps making a dough every few days and just frying as much as needed during prep? Those in the pastry world have a better insight to this than me and I'd appreciate your help. Thanks!

post #2 of 26

@linecook854 It would be a zero shelf life or the taste and consistency go off. If you have ever had a fried donut the next day you would know what I am talking about. They become more stiff, the taste of the fat used to fry becomes more prevalent, etc. There is no way to get around this problem in my opinion. You can try to do a baked dough version and test the quality day of and consecutive days after. I would recommend learning to streamline your prep to fit this in or do something else. 

 

Pastry is just like the culinary world when it comes to mise en place and prep. Most kitchens tend to not have a proper pastry chef or kitchen available so they tend to use a lot of par-bake frozen product or pick things that will last a few days at a time so that they do not have to hire a full time pastry chef. Unfortunately, that is the way of it. :rolleyes:

post #3 of 26
A bit OT but was wondering how the pastry kitchen is getting on with you at the helm?
Must be pretty good if you have gained the confidence it takes to want to add to the menu.
Kudos to you and your team!

mimi
post #4 of 26
Thread Starter 

Fablesable,

Yes, day-old doughnuts were exactly what I was thinking! Would it be feasible to perhaps make a batch of dough, portion into balls and freeze? Then fry off what we'd need only for that service and discard the left overs (or make the dishwasher very happy!) . What are your thoughts on this?

 

Mimi,

Thanks for the kind words. We don't really have a separate staff or prep space for pastry so unfortunately no one really seems to get excited about desserts or bread service. Luckily as the sous I can add desserts to the menu pretty much as I please. I am very technique driven so I feel kinda like I did when I first starting out as a prep cook where everything is new and exciting and I'm thinking of all the goals and potential we could strive for. I tried to temper chocolate using the tablier method for the first time and it is harder than it looked on youtube! Ideally, I would like to have a more legitimate setup and perhaps a dedicated and classically trained member to make it more of an official pastry program. All goals to shoot for even though I know budgets won't allow it! Having to immerse yourself with a good attitude in a different situation definitely gives you a better perspective on things and a new respect for a side I eschewed before because I thought I didn't have the patience or finesse. Still don't but getting better at them!

post #5 of 26

This member @DonutFlipper has a post on another thread with some tips and trix on the donut world.

If there is nothing for you there I am sure he/she would answer some of your questions if he/she can.

 

mimi

post #6 of 26

Ever eat a day old Dunkin Donut, Ughh

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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post #7 of 26

@linecook854 Yes, you can make ahead of time and freeze yeast doughnut dough. Although there are two thoughts on how to do this.

 

1) Made with quick rise (rapid rise) yeast: Make the dough, cut it into doughnut rings or form you would like, and let it proof, then freeze the doughnuts, in a single layer, until they are solid. Wrap each doughnut in a double layer of plastic wrap or place a bunch of them in a plastic freezer bag. Make sure you fully defrost frozen doughnuts at room temperature before frying or baking (if you bake this dough they end up tasting more like fluffy dinner rolls but are still great).

 

2) Made with active dry yeast: Make the dough, cut it into doughnut rings or form you would like, let rise for the first rise, then freeze the doughnuts, in a single layer, until they are solid. Doing as above for storage. Make sure you fully defrost these frozen doughnuts overnight in fridge before frying or baking.

 

The difference between the yeasts is that one is dissolved in liquid first and the other is just mixed into the dry ingredients. I would recommend the rapid rise for you guys but it really all depends on your recipe too.

The main thing to remember is not to leave them out for too long or they will over-proof. So you have to have good time management with this process but obviously not impossible.

 

I really like your enthusiasm and feel excited to hear what else you want to experiment with next. Way to motivate yourself and others on your team! :bounce:

post #8 of 26

I just want to clarify the yeast thing here. There are two types of granular yeast that can be directly added to dry ingredients without first activating in water. There is instant yeast and rapid rise. If you use instant yeast, it doesn't necessarily mean it's rapid rise, so be aware of that. I don't recommend rapid rise......you lose a lot of flavor and structure just for the benefit of saving time. Not worth it. There is a specific type of instant yeast made specifically for sweet yeast doughs (SAF Gold), so know that that is an option too. 

post #9 of 26
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the input everyone.

 

When I was referring to freezing portioned dough I was thinking of non-yeast leavened, I should have clarified. More specifically I was thinking zeppole dough where eggs are the only leavener. Could simply making the dough, portioning and freezing give good results provided they are defrosted before frying?

 

Fablesable,

Thank you for the yeast lesson. I may end up doing a bombolone dough so this may come in handy.

post #10 of 26
Quote:
 Could simply making the dough, portioning and freezing give good results provided they are defrosted before frying?

Yes. You may not even need to defrost them. You could experiment with that.

post #11 of 26

@linecook854 lol....yea, I guess it would help if I got my bomboloni and zeppole's right huh?? I apologize about that :o 

 

As for the making and freezing part. This would work if you made the dough, fried it and then once it cools, freeze them. (They might taste a wee bit off this way but one never knows unless one tries as I cannot say that I have ever frozen fried zeppole before). Do not try and freeze the dough though, as it is more of a choux style dough so it's no good when it comes to freezing before baking or frying. Although I would more recommend to just make them fresh every night as it really is a quick dough to whip together and fry and then you can see how many are ordered, freeze any leftovers and see how they taste coming out of the freezer to be used for customer consumption or to give to staff. Up to you. Why not experiment and try both the bombolone and the zeppole and see what yourself and staff like?? 

post #12 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fablesable View Post
 

@linecook854 Yes, you can make ahead of time and freeze yeast doughnut dough. Although there are two thoughts on how to do this.

 

1) Made with quick rise (rapid rise) yeast: Make the dough, cut it into doughnut rings or form you would like, and let it proof, then freeze the doughnuts, in a single layer, until they are solid. Wrap each doughnut in a double layer of plastic wrap or place a bunch of them in a plastic freezer bag. Make sure you fully defrost frozen doughnuts at room temperature before frying or baking (if you bake this dough they end up tasting more like fluffy dinner rolls but are still great).

 

2) Made with active dry yeast: Make the dough, cut it into doughnut rings or form you would like, let rise for the first rise, then freeze the doughnuts, in a single layer, until they are solid. Doing as above for storage. Make sure you fully defrost these frozen doughnuts overnight in fridge before frying or baking.

 

The difference between the yeasts is that one is dissolved in liquid first and the other is just mixed into the dry ingredients. I would recommend the rapid rise for you guys but it really all depends on your recipe too.

The main thing to remember is not to leave them out for too long or they will over-proof. So you have to have good time management with this process but obviously not impossible.

 

I really like your enthusiasm and feel excited to hear what else you want to experiment with next. Way to motivate yourself and others on your team! :bounce:

 

 

I worked for a food service company as a baker. I worked in the basement of this huge skyscraper in downtown Chicago. I started at 2:00 am. I made those yeast raised doughnuts using fresh yeast. After mixing, I allowed the dough to rest, then rolled and cut the doughnuts. They went on a parchment lined sheet pan then on to a rack. The rack went into the freezer as is.

The next day, the rack came out of the freezer and the pans went into a proofer to raise. Then they were fried.I did this every day. I did this with Danish dough as well.

 

My point is that if this is a retail situation for the OP and space is at a premium, then certain things have to be done accordingly with regards to space and time. In my instance the product almost always sold out by 2:00 in the afternoon. 

I don't know what the selling situation is like in this instance, but the answer is that yes....you can freeze those doughnuts.

post #13 of 26
Quote:
Do not try and freeze the dough though, as it is more of a choux style dough so it's no good when it comes to freezing before baking or frying.


@Fablesable, I pipe out and freeze choux dough all the time. It bakes off beautifully right from the freezer! I'm sure that zeppole dough would behave the same, as they're so similar.

Also I'd like to reiterate what @Chefross said. I too have formed many yeast doughs from breads to donuts to cinnamon rolls to croissant and Danish in a high production facility no less. Once the dough is formed, it's gone right into the freezer, pre-proof. It's pulled from the freezer as needed, then into the proofer and baked off. There is no reduction in quality doing it this way provided everything is rotated in a first-in, first-out basis. I'm concerned that the advice you're giving here may be steering people in a more difficult direction. Sorry, but I had to say this.
post #14 of 26

:eek:


Edited by Fablesable - 7/16/15 at 9:42am
post #15 of 26

@Fablesable, you're overreacting. You have made statements that are inaccurate and untrue, and I feel that as a professional, also with a lot of real-world experience, I need to clarify. 

I don't like to see my fellow PC's get advice that may make life harder for them, because it's hard as it is. I hold no grudges, and you're free to state your opinions. But you're not giving your advice as an "opinion", you are alluding to it as fact, and I need to speak up. Sorry, but that's just the way it is. 

post #16 of 26

@linecook854

            I'm just going to suggest that you may want to move a similar product to the oven. I think relying on anything a la minute with the fryer involved, might be setting you up for failure.

I'm not sure what else the fryer is used for but these types of dough will pick up any off flavors in the fat.

      If you went to the oven with choux,or similar, you would be able to get a good shelf life for the vessel. Then use your fillings. You can get away from cream puff or profiterole look.

Maybe something like a Paris-Brest. I've made them to looked sugar glazed .You can layer with one flavor and fill the center with another, like custard. From there you can brulee or what ever.

Just throwing out an idea.

  When someone posts a  thread asking a question or a thought, you have to become a liver. Take all the info given, filter out the things you want to save, and release the rest.

:cool: pan

FOR YEARS I LIVED TO WORK! NOW I WORK TO LIVE!
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post #17 of 26

@chefpeon yes, I do hear what you are saying. Although when making statements such as 'untrue' and 'inaccurate' it would be best to supply information or fact that says and proves to the contrary instead of "alluding" to the information being given as inaccurate. That way all of us learn ;)

 

@panini great analogy :thumb:

post #18 of 26
Quote:
 

Although when making statements such as 'untrue' and 'inaccurate' it would be best to supply information or fact that says and proves to the contrary instead of "alluding" to the information being given as inaccurate. That way all of us learn ;)

 

I did that. There were two specific things that I felt needed clarification. The subject of the yeast, and the fact that you can indeed, bake off frozen choux dough with no loss in quality. It's not just an opinion....it's just......true. I can go further with yeast doughs and why I think it's better to put unproved and formed dough in the freezer, rather than to proof first and freeze, but that's not really keeping with the original topic the OP posted. 

post #19 of 26

@chefpeon  Saying 'it's not just an opinion ....it's just ....true' without FACTUAL evidence is in itself.....just an opinion. Something to ponder over.

post #20 of 26

@Fablesable........um, what? The fact that I've been baking off frozen choux without any problems isn't good enough? I also have friends and co-workers, past and present, who do this as well. I don't know what else to say, really. This is kind of getting ridiculous now. 

post #21 of 26

@chefpeon  being trained in France where the choux pate originated from and working alongside hundreds of french pastry chefs and having a small number of facilities in france that do freeze their pate choux vs. 1000's that make it fresh everyday does not make anything factual other than that is what they prefer in their OPINION based on their experience. I also do not throw out to you that my years of experience vs. yours trumps your opinions due to ones time spent in this industry AS IT DOES NOT. I value an opinion for what it is and that is that. Disagree or no, it does not make ones experience nor opinion any less than another's. I value what you have had to say and based on your experiences you have given us your insight into what you feel is the way you would do things. Anything else has been sheer ego and on that note I am done. I wish you the best in your endeavours. :cool:

post #22 of 26

I think we can all agree that it is true the choux dough can be piped, and frozen before baking. So this is a fact, it can be done.

 

Beyond that is opinion.  Bringing up other threads or ill feelings, etc, is not helpful to the OP and as professionals, we are all trying to work smarter, not harder.  Bringing up a past post in a different thread doesn't add to this discussion. For someone new to pastry, we don't want to make it seem harder than it needs to be.  I would like the OP to continue to enjoy the pastry side of the house! 

post #23 of 26

@Fablesable, I know you said you were "done" but couldn't resist posting this. One of my friends clued me in to Michael Laiskonis' blog and I thought it quite interesting:

http://mlaiskonis.com/2014/05/30/crunchy-choux/

 

I don't think Laiskonis, of all people, would think to make what he considered a sub-standard choux. He's obviously perfectly OK with freezing it. 

post #24 of 26
Thread Starter 

Boy did this thread derail quickly LOL.

 

 

Anyways....a lot of good opinions were thrown in and I'm glad I got a base to try and experiment with different ideas.

post #25 of 26

Boy! @linecook854 ,

You got that right. A derailment is an understatement!  Anyway, take it all with a pinch of salt


Edited by panini - 5/2/15 at 12:14pm
FOR YEARS I LIVED TO WORK! NOW I WORK TO LIVE!
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post #26 of 26
This forums text editing leaves a lot to be desired.  The cursor eats the words in front of it if you click in the middle of a paragraph to edit something.PITA Moderators!
 
I was going to try and give an opinion but I can't get around this pacman cursor.  If they fix it I might be back.
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