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Looking for advice on Japanese Knives...

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
Dear chefs,
I am looking to hear some feedback on these three Japanese knives;
1. Glestain Tm 724, 240mm, Gyouto, stainless steel. HRB 58-59. $215.
2. Kikuichi TKC, 240mm, gyuto, semi-stainless steel, HRB 61-62. $230.
3. Tojiro Senkou Classic, gyuto, 240mm, stainless steel, HRB 61, $200.

Please let me know if you have worked with any of these knives before.
I am working long hours in a very busy 4 star hotel as a line cook where a lot of prep and knife work is required. The knife I'm looking for has to be rust-proof stainless steel, able to maintain sharpness without the brittleness and chipping problems with a western style handle. Please let me know which one you would recommend. Thank you.
post #2 of 17

1)  The dimples will make maintenance/sharpening impossible

2)  Not as stainless as you want

3)  At this price range, I wouldn't focus so much of damascus cladding, but on performance:  edge taking, geometry, profile,etc.  Also the handle looks uncomfortable


I like gesshin uraku stainless a lot, but you want western handle.


A couple G3 or AUS10 hiromotos are still up at JCK




Also look into suisin inox westerns:




I don't see 240 there. Korin has 240mm, but they are currently sold out.  For a lot of prep, I'd recommend going up to 270mm

post #3 of 17
post #4 of 17

Hirromoto only has 270 and up left for stock, the Ginsan is a great deal at the price.


Kohetsu in HAP-40 PM supersteel (semi-stainless) is out of stock again http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kohagy24.html , for a 240 that would be one of my 2 top picks for your needs.


But the other top pick is in stock http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/kitchen-knives-14/kitchen-knives/gesshin-kagero/gesshin-kagero-240mm-powdered-steel-gyuto.html , SRS-15 PM steel, fully stainless and arguably a better grind than the Kohetsu as it is coming from Jon.


These knives take a very sharp edge and hold it significantly better than other steels.  Not chippy either as really hard PM steels go, I think the Kagero would hold up well on plastic boards from my experience with it, and you can always check that with Jon. 



post #5 of 17

Just to add complication, the 240 Hiromoto is back in stock.




post #6 of 17
Thread Starter 
Thank you very much for all the responses. I have a lot to think about now. So how about the; Hiromoto Western AS Kohetsu 240mm Gyuto, RCH 64, $185?
post #7 of 17
Thread Starter 
The Gesshin Kagero Powdered Steel 240 Gout seems very appealing to me. Does anyone know where it lands on the Rockwell scale?
post #8 of 17
Thread Starter 
So now I'm more confused than before, but these are my top 4 choices. Let me hear your inputs chefs! Thank you all.

1. Glestain TM 724, 240mm Gyuto, all stainless steel, RCH 59. $215
2.Kohetsu Western As, 240mm Gyuto, stainless-steel RCH 64, $185
3. Gesshin Kagero Powdered Stainless Steel 240mm Gyuto, $230
4. Hiromoto G3, 240mm Stainless Steel, RCH 60, $145
post #9 of 17
I will warn you that I was not particularly impressed by the F&F on the two Hiromoto G3 gyutos I got from Koki (returned one, didnt bother to return the second as I figure >1mm deviation in terms of how straight the blade is isn't too bad for a small outfit like Hiromoto), and also the factory edges are horrible- not that it's a huge deal.

I believe Ko(h?t?)etsu are made by the same smith/outfit though I have read that some of Mark's house lines are not superb in terms of F&F... Specifically seen comments about these kohetsu knives.

Gesshin are supposed to have a very very nice fit and finish and Jons Gesshin line in general seems to be getting rave reviews all over the place recently. The Gesshin Ginga is probably a better alternative to the Hiromoto G3 if you are at all interested in that hitachi ginsanko steel. FWIW alot of mid range traditional j-knives come in that steel as a stainless option, and I figure whatever the sushi/kaiseki guys are using has to get and stay pretty darned sharp.

I haven't used my Hiromoto G3 yet so I can't comment on how it performs but I do know that its geometry is supposed to be nearly identical to the Hiromoto AS and that was "one of those knives" to own for a long time. BTW CKTG has over 100 Hiromoto AS 240 gyutos in stock....



Thinking about carbon these days. frown.gif

If you're worried about chipping though I'd steer you well away from carbon (the Hiromoto AS is 63 to 64 HRC and as I understand it certain carbon steels can be brittle) and if you're working with shell or alot of fabrication where bones are involved I would recommend you buy a more workhorse/beater chefs knife... The Hiromoto G3 is fairly soft. I suspect Hiromoto's AUS-10 gyuto is probably nearly indestructible judging by my experience with Fujiwara and Yoshihiro's treatment of AUS-8 (which I believe is a "lesser" steel than AUS-10)....
post #10 of 17

OP is looking for stainless steels anyway for a pro environment, not carbon.


About the chipping issue, I wouldn't steer you away from carbons but:

1) bones

2) rock chopping

3) "lasers" - really thin knives will chip more if your technique is not perfect. 

4) really hard steels

5) speed chopping straight up and down real fast.  Looks cool on tv, but also not as consistent and harder on your edge.

6) coworkers - I mean, you have no control over these but it's a big problem.   Someone grabs your knife for a quick blah blah blah and then hacks open a lobster :(.  Or chef walks by and his big butt knocks your knife off the counter :(.  Anything can happen in a pro kitchen.

post #11 of 17
All excellent points by Millionsknives. Brittleness is often related to weak factory edges. Remove some steel. That being said, the AS by Hiromoto isn't specially brittle at all, and the Rc claim of 63-64 is, as usual, to be taken with a grain of salt.
post #12 of 17
Thread Starter 
Thank you for all the advice. Is anyone familiar with this knife?;
Ryusen Tanganryu Hammered Damascus (Tsuchime), 240mm Gyuto, VG-10 Stainless steel, RCH 62, $285.
post #13 of 17

see here:




OEM blade but maybe they heat treat in house too (speculation), a little better than other manufacturers who use the same blade.  In any case,  that's a LOT of money for what it is.

post #14 of 17
Thread Starter 
So I'm really liking the Ryusen. But I haven't found a lot of reviews on it, although I only found positive ones. My only concern is if it's brittle or not, with a rch 62 hardness vg-10 stainless steel?
post #15 of 17
This. Is a complete guess. If you want real answers from knifemakers, blacksmiths, etc ask on kkf. Im just a simple cook.

Look into the term differential heat treatment. The edge is one hardness, spine something else, tang somethin else. On clad knives there is difference between core and cladding too. Is ryusen differential or just heat treated the whole blank the same idk. Maybe this is what sets them apart with in house heat treat. Maybe they pick and choose where to measure HRC for marketing reasons. All guesses!
post #16 of 17
If it is hrc at the edge, 62 is high for vg10 so it could be brittle.
post #17 of 17
Don't expect differential hardening if not specified as honyaki. A 62 Rc isn't that problematic if done properly. And take a HRc indication with a grain of salt. Add a good microbevel after getting rid of a factory edge.
Edited by Benuser - 5/11/15 at 1:35pm
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