I've taken up drinking just about every day after dealing with the people I deal with; all the while shaking my head slowly. My wife is beginning to truly wonder about my sanity!!!!
talking to the new generation - Page 3
I know I said I wouldn't post to this thread anymore. I just wanted to put something out there. I'm taking a kind of brush up accounting course this summer. Something I do every once in a while. My degree is about 42-3 yrs. old. So it's worthless now. I happen to have quite a few younger people in the class along with some old farts like me. Some of the older ones are from the food service field as well as some of the young.
Most of us got together the other day and grabbed some lunch and discussed some tax yadda, yadda,. I noticed some disdain on the part of the older people in conversation. I then realized there was almost resentment.
These young people were very smart, well versed and educated on various topics. I thought about this thread on the way home and wondered if part of this communication problem with the young and old and the criticism comes from a little jealously that this younger generation is just plain smarter then us. Just wondering.
About cell phones...perhaps some intelligence agency could point to some kind of paint to block cell phone usage. It would certainly help employees' IQ's, eyeballs, brain waves and thumb-carpal-tunnel symptoms. As for customers, maybe it would be a good way to increase use of the outdoor patio.
I'll be quiet now.
I could point you to a cell phone blocker,
"2013 new created modularized design. Total 8 signal bands. Covers most of the popular wireless signal channels, including all mobile phones (2G, 3G, 4G), UHF&VHF walkie-talkie and audio bug, LoJack tracker, GPS tracker, WiFi Bluetooth 2.4GHz, remote control and so on."
but the FCC says,
"The FCC Enforcement Bureau has a zero tolerance policy in this area and will take aggressive action against violators.”
Thought about it a few years back (more??) when texting had really picked up and everyone was on myspace all the time. Drove me nuts. Damn kids with their cell phones, long hair, and hoola hoops. But I was told in some forum or other that you where likely to get a visit from some federal agents.
I'll be quiet now.
Starters in our fields need to be shown what's expected from them. While, my kitchen is starting out with two new line cooks, I start the conversations of where I stand on instructions, rule of kitchen, and basic respect for coworkers (and also ask, ask, ask questions.) Since they're young it's difficult for them to understand to find where the lines are crossed. I experienced in some cases that they are just testing where and what they can get away with responsibilities. As all great persons, find the common ground between yourself and them, but how this is said "easily" is actually harder to do in action.
Firstly, they're young: Finding themselves as the one getting picked on in the kitchen is the cause of the root problem. Ask them to do a task then, leave it to them, just walk away. If the job is done thank them for they're progress. I think as once a student, my instructor always says good job or thank you, in such a way I was thankful for my work. On the other hand, if the job is not done, explain what happens in the future if that job is not done. Alike this: Now, John, has to work faster and longer hours to get your part of the job done before he goes home. Then walk away. As for the walking away part I believe it gives them no time to explain for easy tasks and sometimes leaves the person in shame, emotionally.
Common ground: young people are confused: As they're trying find there places in life shown them that they're presences are something to enjoy. Talk, joke around, while doing work. Talk about life and your hardships, the good and the bad. Cause that is what you and they are experiencing daily. Maybe they're having a tough time at home and possibly bring their attitudes to work. Talk about that what makes problems in their foods which create and the work they have to do. Show them methods of keeping them clean from life to work.
Shape them and put your foot down: One method my head chef shows to us where the lines are is to take a walk. In this walk she explains to us what's the problem and how she expects us to ac in this manner. Then, she ask us what are we going to do next time this problem arrives. The next step if the problem isn't resolved: Write a note to file with HR, and have an HR meeting with them. Next is to send them home for a day and ask to be better next time.
Although, our methods isn't how other companies do so, we pride ourselves in work and problems to progress if they aren't address. Make sure your get feed back from any upper mgmt to bounce ides of punishment and progress. Good luck.
... I`m finding it really hard to give instruction to allot of my younger cooks and floor staff. They just don't like being told what to do.
I don't have a temper , much, but f*** me are they precious ! Any tips from the younger team out there on how to actually get through that massive head ? how have times changed !
Im 22, and i dont think thats normal, i would write them up or something. they sound like theyve never had a job before.
Whew! Thank you to @foodpump for relaying to everyone that just because one has had many jobs it does not make them a poor choice. I also did as many high-end jobs as I could while living in various countries, including my own country, in order to get a well rounded hands-on education. I made sure that I was at these places at least a year.
I kinda had a different take on all three....
#1: I thought sounded good. Would hopefully be mouldable and flexible with learning and hours. Bring upbeat young energy to their job. Could also turn the opposite way. They have very little experience and all culinary school. Thinks that if it is not done the culinary school way then you are doing it wrong (staying strong to their culinary school training). this could create drama, confusion and a lot of babysitting and explaining that could be argued with at every turn. They might also not realize the long hours, hard work and patience required for the job itself. I would be asking them what their expectations are for this job position they have applied for and also if they have planned how they wish to grow with your company.
#2: This one has at least some experience. Has been an assistant so keen to move up. They are shy so I would be worried about their ability to communicate effectively with the team, to speak up when need be and to be able to deal with customers effectively. What are they wanting out of your shop to grow their career? How will working with you help them and vice versa.
#3: On paper I am reading that they are great. However, the "needs no direction, can do it all" is also a red-flag. I would clarify everything in the interview as this person is more of a veteran so they should be able to handle more in depth questioning. I would ask them to clarify what they meant by "no direction can do it all". What is the conflict with executive pastry chef all about? Why are they available immediately? What will they be bringing to the table if hired for the position? Can they handle direction well even if they think they know it?
Some people do not know how they come across on paper and in interviews. It is a shame because they can potentially turn out to be the best for your business......or not. I let all the questions I have for each person I interview based on their resume and cover letter, ferret out the ones that really will not work for me and the ones that shine. Of course, I have been known to ask a million questions......lol
I hope it all goes well for ya today @panini!
To be fair, im terrible at answering interview questions, but im a great employee.
It's not as bad as it seems, you probably just got a bad group. For me I either give them the option to smarten up, or show them the door. It's important that you make yourself clear to them. Don't hint at them being fired, look them in the eye and tell them they will be let go if they do not straighten up.
I agree actually. I got a new guy, I think he's 22 as well but he's great ! As you say though, this guy has also been working since he was 15 or 16 so I guess he has noticed good ways to make moves around a kitchen... I do like watching him boss about some of the older (yet less experienced !) guys, funny and useful !
I think Panini, Cheffross, and the OP, have food points but i believe sir Panini has the best mindset here. Generations before me were trained in a certain way, that training cannot have been based aoley on how they were trained, instead molded from the combo. of their trainers stlye and the trainees specific needs, wants ideals....
Times change, and what i value more in my managers is a sense of mutual respect, a human level is all it takes! Just the sense that wht i say means something to the higher up means alot to me, and is the reason that im at the kitchen im at instead of just quitting, read not showing up which ive done..
That said, what, specifically are you pros looking for, because i find that the OP in particular isnt quite sure. I have some experience and a overwhelming desire to learn, in all subjects not just food, but i WILL question authority and routine, and i WILL ask simple stupid questiojs, probably far too often. I ask this question genuinly as a way to help us, the young'ns and to help you pros to think more practically and honestly.
Ps: i sincerely apologize for my grammar and typing skills... ising a tablet, ill start commenting/posting on a computer ha.
Good post. I don't think you're alone in your journey. The opportunity is there to advance quickly, The new road to get there might be a little different.
I really believe in SCORE. I think it's important to mentor people so they know what to expect out of a career. I had the most interesting discussion a few nights ago.
It was a nice size group 13 young up and comers. I like to use the old phrases, they get a kick out of it. We talked for hours about many things. This is off topic a little bit but,
I was really amazed how civic-minded these individuals were. I'm not sure if it was just this group, but they seemed to think almost everyone their age was on the same page.
The most interesting part of this discussion was when the topic of unions came up. I got the sense that there seemed to be a need for this generation to unify. A good way
to actually make a difference in the world. It was apparent it was a priority .Here is something to put in your pipe. They all expressed an interest in how unions are now vs back
when they were stronger. There was a general feeling that a strong 100% participation union might be the key to a companies success. They were really positive about a
-Leave No One Behind- structure. I was fascinated.
Curious what folks here thought?
you are right ,i don't know if i am new generation but i am on my phone all day even i know it is not good . hard to explain , maybe just because the technology developed so fast that we don't know how to adapt it and we less friends .really really , we don't talk face to face any more .we don't write letter on paper any more . we don't visit our friends as often as before . so what we can do when we are free .boring ,and lonely ? cell phone is a good choice at these time ........
so , maybe the matter is our society instead of ourselves we really should mind this when we are talking about the issue , and do not blame your child randomly .
I walked through the FOH today and saw a table of three women. All three were intently focused on their individual phones. Later on when I came back through on my return to the kitchen, the same scenario was still playing out. Why bother going out to lunch with others when you are only going to interact with your cell phone? LOL, I couldn't help but chuckle that maybe they were texting each other!!!
My son works for a large Internet co in Cal. He has told me that they are so used to texting that at times he will text a person that is 2 ft.away, forgetting they were there. He says the weird thing is
that person will actually turn their head to acknowledge, then turn back and return the text.
Technology talk make me feel sooo old.
Maybe I should feel old, sad, or depressed, but I don't.
I have the biggest, smuggest, sh*t-eating-grin on my face, and can honestly tell you that I have never owned a cell phone, and have no intentions of ever doing so.
Yeah, I hear you. The way I've dealt with phone usage in the workplace is to inform each and every staff to keep their phone in their locker. What they do on their breaks and lunch time is their business, but no phones in the kitchen. Emergencies at home can be dealt with via the landline in the office. About 10% of my hires challenge this rule, and my response is always the same: drop their shifts to 8 hrs a week and watch them leave....
Meh... I "grew up" in the pager era. I seriously doubt if anyone under the age of 25 knows what a pager was. A pager is a device--about the size of a modern phone or smaller, that had one and only function: If someone wanted to contact you, they would call your pager number, your pager would beep and the number you were supposed to call would appear on the screen. Several of the hotels I worked at issued management with pagers. Thing was, the only phones available were in the Chef's office. So if your pager beeped, you had to drop everything, unlock the office and call up to find out who called you. Of course, about every other time the phone rang, it was someone calling to see who paged them. Usually by the second week, I left the (deleted) pager in a drawer and never touched it until I gave it back to the Hotel when I left...... By the time cell phones become small enough to fit into a pocket and didn't cost thousands of dollars, you were locked into 3 or 4 year "Contracts" Every cellphone user I knew then seriously regretted getting locked into a contract, and I figured I'd wait.
That's not to say I don't use them, I use them when provoked, but I don't own one, and hate the idea of whipping out my reading glasses to peer at a tiny screen.
I hated the pager the most of all technology communications.
In the early days of our company, I would spend quite a few hours a day driving around gathering ingredients. To small for a truck delivery. My pager went off constantly.
I'd drive in circles trying to find a phone, get parking tickets while running to a pay phone. Go into strange businesses and ask to use their phone. I could'nt ignore it
because when I got back, they needed something from where I was at 30 miles away.
I actually threw a few away. One time I was running crazy to answer a page. I drove into a hotel, of course they had valet only. I really had to use the restroom.
I ran in and again, the pager/beeper goes off. I pitched it into the urinal and left. Threw one out the window on a highway.
The cell phone is a close second. I just can't drive my car and answer the phone at the same time..I dispise the callers that think that hitting the redial is going to make me answer quicker.
Somehow that seems so..... fitting. That's the word I'm looking for.
Makes you wonder who picked it up, rinsed it off, and sold it to a buddy --or Boss......
Millennial 1980-1995 that's me.
A little history, I was in the Marine Corps Infantry, so I can say after I got out and went to culinary school, I hated the vast majority of whining peers and those younger than me. All that aside I've hated most of the Older Chef's I worked for. Most of them are either burnt out, on drugs, or bullshitted their way to their current position with little to no culinary knowledge and the line is ran by a tight crew of Hispanics who keep the shmuck employed.
I've worked for a Michelin Star Chef, served the president, it wasn't hard keeping me involved, I showed up 4 hours early, worked off the clock, asked a lot of questions, and helped develop dishes for the menu.
Look at UCHI, Look at NOMA. What do they do that's different, they reach out to the line, and co-create. Look at any good chef, he is not the soul creator of the food, he works with people and surrounds himself with eager people wiling to learn and create new things, to push the envelope. Thomas Keller said a great chef inspires others. How many chefs did you work for that truly inspired you?
As for moving around, I moved around plenty and accomplished way more (cooking under a Michelin Star Chef and for the President wouldn't have happened otherwise), and because of that combined with my personal research I am no longer a line cook. It's all about finding the right place, not sticking it out in forgive me, but a restaurant that is status quo stagnation level 9,000 burnt out steady paycheck land.
Honestly I don't think it is an age thing when it comes to work ethic but more of a personal thing and everyone is different no matter how old they are.
I am of the 1960s born generation and there is a woman at work who was born the same year I was and we are so completely different it isn't funny. I will do anything for anyone and management sees that and I have been trained to work in every department in the plant. This other woman... is only willing to work in her department and makes it very obvious that she is unwilling to learn anything new. Needless to say she gets sent home when her department is done their production for the day instead of going in and helping out somewhere else so she gets her full hours for the day. She loves to go home early but come pay time she complains her pay is too small.... and this woman is in her late 40s! She does her job description so management can't let her go... We are a big corporation so HR dictates what they can and can't fire someone over and well if we were a restaurant, she would have been long gone...
We have a group of summer help that were all born in the 1990s and out of the seven of them, six are amazing! They work hard, do what is asked of them without giving attitude and when they are done in their department they always check to see if anyone else needs help before clocking out for the day. One of them... not so great.... has a chip on his shoulder, complains the work is too hard even though he works in the lightest workload department in the plant, and just complains in general. He still needs to be babysat and that drove me nuts last week when I was in that department for a few days filling in. Every time I stopped the line for changeover of mixes he would just stand there and I would have to tell him to please pick up a broom and sweep up the floor while we changed over to the new mix. Now and then he would do it on his own but for the most part, no I had to tell him. It wouldn't have bothered me so much if it was his first week but he has been in that spot for almost three months so he should know the routine at this stage in the game.
When I get frustrated with people like that guy and that woman I wonder how much they hate working with me because I push them to keep up to me and my pace.
I wonder if it is not so much the person but how they are raised when it comes to their sense of entitlement and needing to be praised?
Just my two or more cents.....
In life.....you'll find that mix of people where some are hard working and care while others are just there to watch the clock and pick up a paycheck.
Many of us have been there before........we work hard, are diligent.
We get the top raise at raise time.
It is nobody's business what we make yet people have no problem walking up to us and saying they got only .008% raise, and they think it's unfair.
When you watch them work, reality explains why..
(leeniek) You are correct in your assertion that age has nothing to do with work ethic
When I was the morning Sous Chef for a college food service, I had a pantry gal who was slow, unmotivated, and never on time.
Her hygiene was also in question.
With the employee handbook by my side and her signature on the last page, I had to document her daily routine, and useit against her to get her canned...by the book....
I couldn't understand why she was allowed to stay there so long, and why I had to be the bad guy.
I believe the employee handbook is the best way to aid an employee to get to know their job, but i find that very few places take the time to create one.
Corporations are usually the only ones that do.
Job vs. Career – What is a Job?
While the terms “job” and “career” are often used to mean the same thing, they really are conceptually different.
If you work a part-time job in your youth in order to have extra spending money, it isn’t likely you’d refer to it as a career. Why?
The reason is that a job is something you do without much concern for the long-term. You get a job to buy your first car, to have extra spending money, to learn about work, or to pay the bills.
When young people work part-time in retail sales jobs, they aren’t thinking of it as a career.
The same goes for senior citizens who take on jobs after they’ve retired. It is simply work done in exchange for money. Jobs are important for people of all ages.
A job can put food on the family table. Some jobs even earn people high wages.
I think the key in hiring in this field is to have the insight to hire peoples that are career orientated.
A wonderfull if naïve statement... There are very few Chefs who can hire their entire crew, many are "inherited" and in many cases the owners have final say in who gets hired--and at what payscale. Crazy, I know, must have something to do with them signing the paycheque.
Meh, like Mick & the boys sing, " You can't always get what you want, but you get what you need".....