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New chef knife - Page 2

post #31 of 57

There are a number of reasons you want to stay away from Arks, especially the cheap ones, but main reason is they are just too damn slow, especially on the harder steels.  Much slower than even the Chinese slate stones you are very likely using if you are using Chinese natural waterstones.  For what it's worth, Brian and I have what could be called "vintage" Arks.  Today Hals is the only supplier I think that can still deliver similar quality, in terms of flaws or inclusions.  Some offer what are not even real Arks, but just crushed stone held together with a binder.

 

 

Iminishi is a very good and inexpensive stone that may be available to you, Bester and Beston are 2 others.  Niniwa super stones and King are cheap, but they cut slower and also wear much faster.  If you can get them 2 good stones by Niniwa are their Green Brick of Joy (2K) and Snow White (8K).

 

Iminishi and others make a number of combination stone:220/400, 400/1K, 1K/4K, 1K/6K, about in these ranges.  This route can keep down your initial investment, just make sure your are buying the full size 8"/205mm stones.

 

You should have a 400 or 500 for ordinary thinning and reprofiling, a 1k or 2k and a finishing stone.

 

 

Rick

post #32 of 57

Yes, that's it... HALL sharpening stones. Thanks for resurrecting an old memory.

 

http://www.hallsharpstones.com/shop/accessories/arkansas-tri-hones/arkansas-tri-hone.html

 

This, however, is the place I knew and probably bought from:

 

http://www.naturalwhetstone.com/productssharpening.htm

 

I was unaware of fabricated stones but find that no surprise.

post #33 of 57

If the main reason cysoon wants to upgrade from Victorinox is to get better edge taking, I don't think it makes sense to recommend using a medium-coarse stone for finishing. That provides a serviceable edge by European standards but definitely not the kind of sharp edge you'd expect from a Japanese knive.

 

cysoon, I'd like to echo everyone else's suggestion to go with the Hiromoto or Carbonext over the Tojiro if you're looking to spend less than the Mac. It's not that the Tojiro DP is bad, but from its use of VG-10 to its sanmai construction to its handles that some people find uncomfortable, I don't think it's really in the same league as the other two for your first *good* chef's knife. Also, both the Hiromoto and Carbonext are sold by JCK, which is said to have excellent shipping worldwide.

 

I'd go with the Hiromoto over the Carbonext since the Carbonext is said to often have such a bad edge out of the box (OOTB) that it requires reprofiling, which is a task you don't really want to do unless your sharpening is good enough that you trust it for coarse work. It's also nice to have a knife that's somewhat sharp out of the box if you haven't experienced Japanese-level sharpness before so that you have a point of reference. If you're confident enough with your sharpening to set a bevel, then you might want to check out the Carbonext since it uses a semi-stainless alloy that should take carbon-like edges and feel like carbon on stones.

 

By the way, if you can afford it (but only if that doesn't come at the expense of stones), I'd go with the Mac because the profile isn't as santoku-like as the Hiromoto, and it will likely have better grind, F&F, and OOTB sharpness than either knife.

 

As for stones, you really want at minimum (1) a coarse stone for occasional reprofiling, (2) a medium-coarse stone for sharpening, and (3) a medium-fine stone for polishing. The better the stones, the easier your life will be and the more you'll enjoy sharpening and the more you'll get around to keeping your knives sharp. I highly recommend skipping the entry waterstone tier and moving to the "very good performance at a pretty good value" tier. So we're not talking Gesshin or Chosera prices, but we do want to still have very good performance.

 

One of the best coarse stones that's also good value is the Beston 500. Examples of medium-coarse stones at a similar level of "very good performance but also good value" are the Bester 1200 and the Arashiyama 1k. Examples of medium-fine stones in that tier are the Arashiyama 6k and the Suehiro Rika "5k". I don't know how shipping would work, but CKtG has less expensive kits that combine the Beston 500, the Bester 1200, and the Suehiro Rika into one.

 

*If* you wanted to step up to even higher quality stones (and I'm not assuming you do!), the best value at the top tier is said to be the Gesshin stones at JKI. Jon Broida sells a kit of the Gesshin 400, Gesshin 2k (which cuts faster than most 1k stones), and Gesshin 6k. They're said to cut faster yet leave more refined edges than almost anything else at similar grit levels. I currently sharpen on an Edge Pro (so take all of my second-hand waterstone advice with a grain of salt!), but if and when I switch to freehand it will probably be to that Gesshin kit.

post #34 of 57

Speaking of sets, Toolsfromjapan have nice deals on 2 stone sets (near bottom of page), one meets the terrify restraints:

http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=335_404_403

 

They come with stone holder and diamond flattening plate.  Of course any rough and reasonably flat surface can be used for flattening, but the diamond plate will cover for a course stone (the 800 would be recommended), that the sets don't come with.

 

 

Rick

post #35 of 57
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the suggestions gladius, I'll take a look and decide it later
post #36 of 57
Thread Starter 
Hi guys! Have you guys heard of whetstone a from a brand called sapphire?
post #37 of 57

I have not heard of it.

 

The references I can find through Google suggest that this stone comes from China.  No product reviews seem to be available.  All purchase information I can find seem to suggest that the only sources are online from Chinese sources only.

 

The name "Sapphire" may be some sort of product information, since sapphires are essentially a crystalline form of aluminum oxide.

 

That's all I can figure out.

 

GS

post #38 of 57
Thread Starter 
Hi all its me again, so I've decided to purchase the tojiro DP but unfortunately a dealer I can easily go to does not carry the DP series but they do carry PRO DP COBALT and color series so may I ask all you experts here to tell me what you guys know about these knives? Thanks
post #39 of 57

Looks like same blade, same steel, different handle and more expensive.

 

post #40 of 57

For the record, as this is a 'big hands knife' thread of sorts, I thought I would weigh in my 2c

 

I bought a Carbonext from reading threads here and have big hands - not XXL, but XL I would say, and the handle I find small and uncomfortable. I use near enough a pinch grip and still my little finger grips the end 'lip' (not sure of the correct name) of the handle

 

I am not a precision cutter, in fact a very armature home cook, but nevertheless. I prefer a bigger bellied rock chopping profile blade

 

The Robert Welch Signature (10") chef's I have has a long handle is a thing of joy to use. It holds its edge better than anything I have used (Victorinox 8" included), can easily use all of the blade and sharpens well (on a stone). The other knife I have is a Tim Malzer Kai Shun 9" which I also find fine

 

HTH's any big hands looking in

post #41 of 57

MillionsKnives is right about the "Pro" DP line.  Same blade (sanmai cladded construction), different handle, higher price and probably higher profit margins to the distributor and/or retailer.

 

I would not bother with the "color coded" knives.  Plain old Molybdenum Vanadium steel may be okay for European quality knives, but aren't in the same quality range as VG-10 core steel knives.

 

You might want to look at Pete's Kitchenwares for the Tojiro DP 240 mm gyuto, Model F-809 at RM362.00.  The website for the F-809 is: http://peteskitchenwares.com/product/f809-chef-knife/

 

Hope that helps.

 

Galley Swiller

post #42 of 57
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonesetter View Post

For the record, as this is a 'big hands knife' thread of sorts, I thought I would weigh in my 2c

I bought a Carbonext from reading threads here and have big hands - not XXL, but XL I would say, and the handle I find small and uncomfortable. I use near enough a pinch grip and still my little finger grips the end 'lip' (not sure of the correct name) of the handle

I am not a precision cutter, in fact a very armature home cook, but nevertheless. I prefer a bigger bellied rock chopping profile blade

The Robert Welch Signature (10") chef's I have has a long handle is a thing of joy to use. It holds its edge better than anything I have used (Victorinox 8" included), can easily use all of the blade and sharpens well (on a stone). The other knife I have is a Tim Malzer Kai Shun 9" which I also find fine

HTH's any big hands looking in
Unfortunately, the knife choices in my country are very limited but thanks for the suggestion
post #43 of 57
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galley Swiller View Post

MillionsKnives is right about the "Pro" DP line.  Same blade (sanmai cladded construction), different handle, higher price and probably higher profit margins to the distributor and/or retailer.

I would not bother with the "color coded" knives.  Plain old Molybdenum Vanadium steel may be okay for European quality knives, but aren't in the same quality range as VG-10 core steel knives.

You might want to look at Pete's Kitchenwares for the Tojiro DP 240 mm gyuto, Model F-809 at RM362.00.  The website for the F-809 is: http://peteskitchenwares.com/product/f809-chef-knife/

Hope that helps.

Galley Swiller
I'm fully aware of the link you gave as that was where I planned to get the Tojiro DP. There are only 2 dealers in my country, one the website you gave me and another which is very near to where I live. Maybe I'll ask if they can somehow get the Tojiro DP imported for me haha. I really wanted to hold the knife in person before purchasing and if I can't then I'll take a risk and buy it from peteskitchenware
post #44 of 57

How's the new job been going?

 

 

 

Rick

post #45 of 57
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Alan View Post

How's the new job been going?



Rick
I love this job. It's tiring and I get cuts and burns all the time but I really do love it
post #46 of 57
Thread Starter 
So since for some reason I don't know how to post new posts anymore on my phone I'm just gonna resurrect this post. I've decided to get the tojiro pro dp due to it actually being cheaper and due to HACCP rules at my workplace. Now I'm looking for a knife guard that will fit the knife. Looking for something like Bisbell or the global knife guard. Again due to haccp rules cardboard and wood is out of the question
post #47 of 57
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Alan View Post

How's the new job been going?
An update for you Rick, completed my internship and was offered a permanent position in the main kitchen smile.gif already been working for two months


Rick
post #48 of 57

That's GREAT Cysoon!  I have a feeling you'll have your own place before you know it.

 

For guards you could probably find some Mylar sheets somewhere,  they can be folded, stapled following the edge profile and trimmed for some very serviceable guards.

 

 

 

Rick

post #49 of 57

Tojiro DP's a good knife. Hope you enjoy it!

post #50 of 57
Thread Starter 
So I bought and used the tojiro do for 2 weeks. OOTB edge is to me ok but when I sharpened it earlier it is crazy how sharp it can get and I'm sure I have not reached maximum sharpness yet! Overall I'm very happy with this knife.
Sharpened on 1000 grit ceramic and a fine natural stone. Bought the king 4000 grit stone. Should be here in about 2-3 weeks.
Burr is PITA to remove. Took me very long to remove it. Pulled through wooden cutting board, stropped on stones and newspaper. Burr is easy to form difficult to remove. Sharpened at approximately 10-12 degrees per side.
Sliced through shallots, spring onion and even ginger with minimal force by using the weight of the knife itself and no resistance at all.
Overall very happy with this knife and thank you to those who recommended this knife to me.
post #51 of 57

Yes VG-10 is a PITA to deburr, but using a Micro-bevel makes it much easier.  First raise a burr at about 10deg, micro-bevel around 15+, even 20 is not too much.  VG-10 holds an edge very much better at 15+, whether by design or accident it was essentially made to work in that range.

 

Great video for deburring

 

post #52 of 57

Seems to be the case for me as well. I've noticed a huge difference in edge durability/retention after easing the shoulders on my Tojiro with light thinning, then raising the bevel angle to around 15, was probably closer to 10 before. 

post #53 of 57
Yeah I use the J shape motion Jon shows in the video or simply a edge trailing stropping motion with lighter and lighter pressure. Knock off the burr on every stone before continuing. You shouldnt raise much burr from a finishing stone.
post #54 of 57
Thread Starter 
Random question. Do you mind scratches on your knife? I personally do not mind them as I think that having it sharp is more important.
Another question, how do you maintain the shape of your knife? As in the curve area?
post #55 of 57


I experiment with polishing some of my less fancy knives. Don't particularly like loads of scratches but I live with them. Having really coarse scratches on the blade (like thinning vs incidental sharpening scratches) matters more for carbon steel blades as those are harder to dry completely and therefore more prone to rust.
I use a marker/sharpie to help make sure I'm hitting the curve evenly during sharpening. I try to check and make sure the burr on the curved part of the edge is not significantly bigger or smaller than on the rest of the knife edge.
post #56 of 57
On simple stainless I maintain a kind of satin polish with weared out sandpaper on linen. I care even less with carbons as they get a nice patina anyway.
post #57 of 57
Thread Starter 
Did micro-beveling earlier on my tojiro and by touch I do feel a significant difference. Watched Jon from JKI and did only one side, will test them out at work tmr and see how different is the performance
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