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Does anyone have any experience with "Konosuke" or "Richmond" "lasers?" - Page 2

post #31 of 44
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gladius View Post
 

^ What MillionsKnives said. Ginsan aka ginsanko aka G3 is just the type of steel they use in the core. You can tell it's san-mai because of the cladding line in the picture. That's the wavy line by the edge, not that secondary bevel line closer to the spine.

 

I believe only the Ultimatum HD is made by Konosuke. I'd imagine Lamson or some other American OEM makes the regular heavier duty line of Ultimatums.

 

I'd say getting your dad something a little stouter makes sense. If I were in a position like I understand yours to be, I'd probably go with a Mac Pro 270mm (MBK-110) or Ultimatum AEB-L 240mm for the gift, depending on whether my father had an adequate size cutting board or not. Then I'd either wait on the Konosuke HD if I really wanted to try out the semistainless alloy, or I'd get a Richmond Laser or Gesshin Ginga now.



I was looking at this post, and that I mentioned before about bad reviews, and noticed you were the one who was commenting on the knives and their "grind issue."  I guess it's not a big deal, and doesn't affect performance, just looks?

I don't know where else I saw a bad review on them, maybe it was just your comments, but I thought there was 2 separate comments on them...


http://www.chefknivestogo.com/rilaaest.html


There seems to be very good reviews on both the 240, and the 270.  I'm curious if it's worth it to go for the 270(262mm total), because I do like that handle better, but not sure if it justifies the price increase/size increase, or if I should stick with the 240?

 

post #32 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by LasagnaBurrito View Post
 



I was looking at this post, and that I mentioned before about bad reviews, and noticed you were the one who was commenting on the knives and their "grind issue."  I guess it's not a big deal, and doesn't affect performance, just looks?

 

 

I think there were two things recently mentioned either by me or others regarding Richmond knives that could be called "grind issues", and the answer to your question depends on which one we're talking about. The first is that some people have reported problems with the grind on some Richmond knives. The grind of the knife refers to the shape of the actual steel as it tapers from the spine to the edge. The shape and consistency of the grind very much affect cutting performance. I think those reports were mainly of the budget Richmond Artifex line and not the Ultimatum or the Laser line. I could be wrong.

 

The second thing you might be referring to by "grind issue" is that many (all?) Richmond knives are said to come with grind marks on the blade--I guess they don't polish out the scratches left on the blade from manufacturing. This is predominantly or entirely an aesthetic issue. For carbon steel knives, a lot of people voluntarily scratch up the surface of their knife with a scotch-brite cloth to scrub the blade with baking soda, which inhibits patina and rust formation and leaves a worn metal appearance that some find attractive. With stainless steel, most people probably prefer shiny blades with no scratches. Some people don't care. If you do, Richmond knives might not be for you.

 

I suspect you'll get to choose which handle you get on either the 240 or the 270, but I definitely recommend the 270. Less handle lifting between cuts and a longer sweet spot on the edge. Normally this comes at the cost of weight and ease of wielding, but lasers are so light that the extra weight is practically insignificant (even more true on the Konosuke than the Richmond) and the length on both the Richmond and Konosuke runs way shorter (even more true on the Richmond) anyway, making 240 feel quite small to many and 270 easy to wield.

post #33 of 44

It was also mentioned that the HT of the American made AEB-L Richmonds was a problem. 

 

 

Rick

post #34 of 44
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Alan View Post
 

It was also mentioned that the HT of the American made AEB-L Richmonds was a problem. 

 

 

Rick


What's HT?  Thank you

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gladius View Post
 

 

I think there were two things recently mentioned either by me or others regarding Richmond knives that could be called "grind issues", and the answer to your question depends on which one we're talking about. The first is that some people have reported problems with the grind on some Richmond knives. The grind of the knife refers to the shape of the actual steel as it tapers from the spine to the edge. The shape and consistency of the grind very much affect cutting performance. I think those reports were mainly of the budget Richmond Artifex line and not the Ultimatum or the Laser line. I could be wrong.

 

The second thing you might be referring to by "grind issue" is that many (all?) Richmond knives are said to come with grind marks on the blade--I guess they don't polish out the scratches left on the blade from manufacturing. This is predominantly or entirely an aesthetic issue. For carbon steel knives, a lot of people voluntarily scratch up the surface of their knife with a scotch-brite cloth to scrub the blade with baking soda, which inhibits patina and rust formation and leaves a worn metal appearance that some find attractive. With stainless steel, most people probably prefer shiny blades with no scratches. Some people don't care. If you do, Richmond knives might not be for you.

 

I suspect you'll get to choose which handle you get on either the 240 or the 270, but I definitely recommend the 270. Less handle lifting between cuts and a longer sweet spot on the edge. Normally this comes at the cost of weight and ease of wielding, but lasers are so light that the extra weight is practically insignificant (even more true on the Konosuke than the Richmond) and the length on both the Richmond and Konosuke runs way shorter (even more true on the Richmond) anyway, making 240 feel quite small to many and 270 easy to wield.


That's for that.  The knives look polished, but that's just one knife pic though...

I'll look into the 270, so many people have mixed feelings so we shall see.

I finally got a message from Jon, he was busy, and he was recommending a Gessin Ginga as well.  He said that's their inhouse brand, but he gets it made in Japan...  I might go for one of those too as an option, we shall see....



Rick Mentioned "American Made" and the guy who recommended Konosuke seemed to have a thing about American vs Japanese made blades, preferring the latter.

Thanks guys :).

post #35 of 44

HT=heat treat.  Lamson, the maker, was apparently not doing a great job here either, AEB-L is not the simplest steel to do properly and also they apparently were not using a high end outfit like Pete's Heat Treat.

 

Their Japanese made knives were not getting bad reports though.

 

 

Rick

post #36 of 44
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Alan View Post
 

HT=heat treat.  Lamson, the maker, was apparently not doing a great job here either, AEB-L is not the simplest steel to do properly and also they apparently were not using a high end outfit like Pete's Heat Treat.

 

Their Japanese made knives were not getting bad reports though.

 

 

Rick



Sorry I ddn't get back to you, but thanks for that.

Interesting info on the steel.



@Gladius I was talking to my chef buddy who mentioned that the chefs he learned from, and others recommended starting with a 1000 grit king stone.  He said that's what he started on until the stone was "paper thin and cracked" and then he moved onto a better stone...?

Is 1000 grit good?  I'll go look up and see if it fits your "medium" option.



Also, I guess I didn't mention this here, but I have a knife set from "Faberware" and I was looking at some of the bigger knives in the back, and noticed one that looked like a Suji, and one that looked like a Gyuto...  From the feel of teh Gyuto one it seemed REALLY big.  Idk how I feel about the big knives, I feel like I might want a smaller knife?

Maybe I need to just get used to using knives??!?

Thanks all.

post #37 of 44

1000 grit for a King is going to be what I'm calling "medium/coarse", meaning in the same coarseness/fineness class as the Bester 1200, Arashiyama 1000, and Gesshin 2000. In the three-phase profiling/sharpening/polishing model of sharpening, you do the sharpening phase on the King 1000. That's enough to put a decent (albeit toothy) edge on soft European stainless knives, but if you're paying the money for a Japanese knife that can take a highly polished edge, you'll want to at least go up to a medium/fine stone like the Arashiyama 6000, Suehiro Rika, or Gesshin 6000 for some polish. King stones are, by reputation (again, I don't have personal experience freehanding), totally capable of putting in an edge but significantly slower at doing it than the above alternatives. At higher grits like the medium/fine category, I'm not sure how polished an edge one typically gets from, say, the King 6000. That doesn't mean I believe it to be bad, but merely that I don't know.

 

If you have the board space, longer knives are generally touted as better. That usually means 270mm for a gyuto and 300mm for a sujihiki. What does better mean here? I use a 240mm gyuto and 270mm sujihiki, so I'm not the one to ask, but presumably less handle lifting between cuts and greater sweet spot on the edge. And for a suji, increased chance of getting through a slice in one go, meaning a straight cut. Does the initial awkwardness mean longer isn't better *for you*? Maybe, maybe not. The very first time I used my 270mm suji as a gyuto, I got comfortable with the length after half an onion. But I'm also fairly new to cooking and cutting, so I didn't have years of unlearning to do. As for what will work best for you, in the words of former CT contributor BDL: ¿quién sabe?

post #38 of 44
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gladius View Post
 

1000 grit for a King is going to be what I'm calling "medium/coarse", meaning in the same coarseness/fineness class as the Bester 1200, Arashiyama 1000, and Gesshin 2000. In the three-phase profiling/sharpening/polishing model of sharpening, you do the sharpening phase on the King 1000. That's enough to put a decent (albeit toothy) edge on soft European stainless knives, but if you're paying the money for a Japanese knife that can take a highly polished edge, you'll want to at least go up to a medium/fine stone like the Arashiyama 6000, Suehiro Rika, or Gesshin 6000 for some polish. King stones are, by reputation (again, I don't have personal experience freehanding), totally capable of putting in an edge but significantly slower at doing it than the above alternatives. At higher grits like the medium/fine category, I'm not sure how polished an edge one typically gets from, say, the King 6000. That doesn't mean I believe it to be bad, but merely that I don't know.

 

If you have the board space, longer knives are generally touted as better. That usually means 270mm for a gyuto and 300mm for a sujihiki. What does better mean here? I use a 240mm gyuto and 270mm sujihiki, so I'm not the one to ask, but presumably less handle lifting between cuts and greater sweet spot on the edge. And for a suji, increased chance of getting through a slice in one go, meaning a straight cut. Does the initial awkwardness mean longer isn't better *for you*? Maybe, maybe not. The very first time I used my 270mm suji as a gyuto, I got comfortable with the length after half an onion. But I'm also fairly new to cooking and cutting, so I didn't have years of unlearning to do. As for what will work best for you, in the words of former CT contributor BDL: ¿quién sabe?



Hmm gotcha, thanks, I'll have to do more research on stones when the time comes.

As for the knives they just felt really big, maybe a big heavy, I don't know, just felt long.  Jon from JKI mentioned he has 1 Ginga in White Carbon left, in a Wa handle, I think it's White #1.  He did post a review from someone of the same specs knife so Id on't know if he sold it yet...

post #39 of 44
Thread Starter 

So I think I'm going to possibly go with this one http://www.chefknivestogo.com/katkgy21.html

A few people on CKTG forum recommended it, and it seems to be highly rated for a cheap knife, and I think it's best to go cheap, experiment with the knife to learn about it, and if I ruin it in the process I'm not out 300$+.... :)


Anyone have any thoughts on this company/knife?  Should i maybe get him both a Gyuto, and Suji for this price?

Thanks again for all the help everyone!!!


Edited by LasagnaBurrito - 7/12/15 at 4:36pm
post #40 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by LasagnaBurrito View Post
 



Hmm gotcha, thanks, I'll have to do more research on stones when the time comes.

As for the knives they just felt really big, maybe a big heavy, I don't know, just felt long.  Jon from JKI mentioned he has 1 Ginga in White Carbon left, in a Wa handle, I think it's White #1.  He did post a review from someone of the same specs knife so Id on't know if he sold it yet...

white #2 FWIW

post #41 of 44

Haha I was going to say I'd be surprised if you were selling a V-bevel Ginga in white #1.

 

Lasagna, I don't know anything about that knife, but if its grind and heat treatment seem usable, it looks like it might replace the CarboNext as a good entry-level semistainless knife, and if its OOTB edge is significantly better than the CarboNext, it might be a good entry-level *first* knife. I do want to repeat the suggestion of erring on the longer side of your comfort zone (or your dad's), whether that means 270 or 240 in this case.

post #42 of 44
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBroida View Post
 

white #2 FWIW

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gladius View Post
 

Haha I was going to say I'd be surprised if you were selling a V-bevel Ginga in white #1.

 

Lasagna, I don't know anything about that knife, but if its grind and heat treatment seem usable, it looks like it might replace the CarboNext as a good entry-level semistainless knife, and if its OOTB edge is significantly better than the CarboNext, it might be a good entry-level *first* knife. I do want to repeat the suggestion of erring on the longer side of your comfort zone (or your dad's), whether that means 270 or 240 in this case.




Yeah, I didn't have the info in front of me, so I wasn't sure haha.....  Must have been looking at something else in White #1, or maybe I'm just going crazy? :P  I don't know what the numbers mean, nor real differences in steels anyways so lol :P.  Trying to look it up, but no real info.



As for this one, I think I read a forum post talking about the "CarboNext" and it sounded similar to what you posted, so I'm guessing you might have research it a little bit?  It sounds pretty good though.  I'm not sure what you were commenting about "grind and heat treament seem usable" in what instance would it not be, and how can you tell from the info provided?



As everyone already knows, I'm all over the place, but honestly I think I should just get a cheaper knife now, and just learn everything on it, and then when the winter holidays roll around, it will be time for a better knife gift, plus more time to research hahhaha.

As for this gift, I'm still open to cheaper suggestions I guess, but maybe this topic has gone off-topic a little since it's about Konosuke Lasers and such.

I still would like a Wa Handle, but I'm not sure how picky I should be if I'm going cheap....?


As for size, it seems these guys liked the 210mm, and personally these big knives are big... but again I don't know how to use a knife, so I will have to look up youtube videos.  I did try to mimic how both of the guys in the CKTG videos use their knives which is a back and forth motion, and it seemed to work okay, except the knife felt pretty dull so yeah I definitely need a better knife myself.. also...

2 month long journey, but getting closer to what I want to start with!


Thanks again.


Edited by LasagnaBurrito - 7/14/15 at 12:04am
post #43 of 44
Hello, sorry I'm late to the thread.

I'm a sushi chef and have been for almost a decade.

Yanagiba, is solely for sashimi. One stroke to cut slices of fish.
Considered a chisel edge, only sharpened on one side.

Sujihiki, is a multi purpose knife, doing many things like many already said.
This is my preferred knife for cutting maki.
And maki is not hand roll, maki is just roll. You do not cut hand rolls as they are shaped like ice cream cones wink.gif

Gyuto is another multipurpose knife, more suited for vegetable than the sujihiki.

I have a konosuke sujihiki and gyuto, both at 270 mm.
The spine of the gyuto is slightly thicker than the sujihiki.

I have rarely seen chefs use gyuto for cutting maki, it can he done, but the suji would excel compared to the gyuto.

Thanks!
post #44 of 44
A narrower blade will cause less dragging.
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