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I NEED AN EFFICIENT PROFESIONAL CHEFS KNIFE ASAP!!!!!!!!!!

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 

Hello everyone!

 

Im new to chef talk. Im relatively new to the culinary world i have been cooking for fun my whole life but about 5 months ago I decided to get serious and got a job as the sauce cook  at a local restaurant. I love my job but the knives are killing me and i want to slowly start my own knife collection to start bringing to work with me. I want a good chef knife that will stay sharp and last me forever if possible. What would y'all suggest. To start off I am looking for chef knife that is at least 9 inches or larger. I was thinking about global knives but I'm not sure then i came across a 9.5 inch Torijo DP Damascus Chefs knife that I'm in love with but I don't want to waste my money . any advice is helpful.

post #2 of 27

Read this whole forum and we can talk again in a year or two.

Gebe Gott uns allen, uns Trinkern, einen so leichten und so schönen Tod! Joseph Roth.
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Gebe Gott uns allen, uns Trinkern, einen so leichten und so schönen Tod! Joseph Roth.
Reply
post #3 of 27

Or at least the last few dozen will let you ask insightful questions

post #4 of 27
What is "killing" you about the house knives?

What excites you about the Global or Torijo DP?
post #5 of 27

I would suggest getting a stone or two and learning how to take care of the house knives. You will learn a lot in the process, become a hero to your fellow coworkers, and be better prepared and knowledgeable before starting your own collection.

Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
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Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
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post #6 of 27
Yeah there's no forever knife. All knives will dull and require sharpening. If you're sharpening with some skills, freehand, on waterstones, that's the least metal you can remove and restore the edge. Even if you do it right, you're removing a tiny bit of metal each time.

Here is Iron Chef Masaharu Morimoto's yanagiba over 3 years of sharpening, twice a day, once before lunch and dinner service


Not that you'll be sharpening 2x a day because your knives don't need to be world class sushi master sharpness.

Learn to sharpen and you won't be afraid of new, used, vintage, whatever. You can buy and tune knives to your liking.
Edited by MillionsKnives - 8/4/15 at 6:41pm
post #7 of 27
If the problem is that the knives are dull, doing as cheflayne suggests will make you a kitchen hero... Even if you don't get them scalpel sharp.
post #8 of 27

A good knife will last a home cook maybe for his or her lifetime.  In a restaurant kitchen though knives are consumables/wear items.  No knife will stay sharp forever if it's being used hard, and you can't sharpen a knife without removing metal from it.  So do the math!  That said, the Tojiro DP knives are solid knifes with pretty good edge retention, especially compared to the typical house knives you generally see.

"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
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"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
Reply
post #9 of 27

Go over to the kitchen knife forums and search the many threads about guys having their knives stolen or damaged when they brought them to work.  A $1000 custom might as well be a Dexter if they are both dull.  Learning to sharpen will take you further in many ways.  The Richmond Artifex 240 gyuto in AEB-L can be had for $75 in the closeouts section here:  http://www.chefknivestogo.com/riar24gy.html  There are other good deals as well, but you won't be breaking the bank getting into J-style knives.

post #10 of 27

You certainly don't have to break the bank for a good knife, but a caveat on the Artifex - that is likely one of the poorly made Lampson produced knives.

 

 

 

Rick 

post #11 of 27
Thread Starter 


Well the house knives go dull the night we get them. I go in three hours early on prep days to knock some extra prep for the rest of the restaurant out of the way but by the end of the night which s usually around 9 or 10 my knife  can slice a duck breast without giving me trouble.

 

Also for the torijo knives. i have read a lot of things about them and i know their is no such thing as a forever knife but i do just want one that will last me a good while. I'm just tired of having to stop what i am doing to use the stone because the knife is not cutting effectively.

post #12 of 27
Thread Starter 


I really appreciaite everyones feedback thank you all

post #13 of 27
If you're new to stone sharpening you better stay away from both Globals and Tojiro DP.
Both the Cromova and VG-10 are hard to sharpen. Consider Fujiwara FKM or Hiromoto Aus-10.
post #14 of 27

I hope I'm not too late to jump in here.

 

ButlerAustin92, you might want to look at the MAC BK-100.  It's part of the MAC Chef Series knives, and I was able to score one a few weeks ago.  It's an impressive relative bargain, as MAC knives go.

 

The nearest comparison is between the MAC Pro MBK-95, the 9-1/2 in chef's knife and the MAC MBK-110, the 10-3/4 inch chef's knife.  The Chef series BK-100 is right between the two: 255mm, or just 1 mm more than 10 inches.

 

Weight: BK-100 7.9 oz.; MBK-95  7.8 oz ; MBK-110  8.6 oz

 

The steel used in all three knives is the same, MAC's "Original" steel, and the blade thickness is also the same - 2.5mm.  When I compared the BK-100 against the MBK-95, I could feel no difference in stiffness.

 

The BK-100 balances right at the transition between the handle and the blade, so in a pinch grip, the balance is even.

 

The major differences between the BK-100 and the MBK-95 and MBK-110 are (1) in appearance (the Pro series knives have a metal bolster, which BLD described as being sintered on, while the Chef series knives lack that metal bling); (2) the handle scales of the Chef series knives lead right up to the blade, while the bolster of the Pro series knives leaves a transition area along the tang between handle and blade; and (3) the blade profile of the BK-100 is a bit more triangular, with the spine of the knife and the edge of the knife continuing to spread apart the further aft on the blade towards the heel, while the Pro series knives tend to have the spine and edge more parallel towards the heel.

 

Street discount prices are: BK-100, about $110.  MBK-95, about $185.  MBK-110 about $210.  

 

 

Galley Swiller

post #15 of 27

You're probably going to be looking at a Carbon Steel knife, as those knives hold their edges the best, and also sharpen a lot easier than other steels apparently, besides holding one of the sharpest edges of all steel.

House knives... Suck...  IF you mean one of those knife sets like Faberware or w/e...  Most of them are jank garbage that a lot of people shouldn't be using.  They might be decent for the "Home cook" but in reality a great knife will be much better for everyone.


As for a "Forever knife" a knife can last for a very long long time, as evident by people whipping out 30+ year old knives and showing them off/mentioning them on sites like this.  I have a 45 or so year old Chinese Cleaver that still have tons of life in it, because it's barely used.  The issue that people are bringing up, is that knives lose metal when they are sharpened, thus get smaller and smaller until they will eventually SNAP in half.  As long as the knife is still in tact, it will still work.  Depending how much you use it, and how much you sharpen it, will determine how long the knife will last.  Some people like to sharpen while the knife is still sharp, and some will wait until it's dull to sharpen.  IT seems it's easier to sharpen an already sharp knife, compared to sharpening a dulled knife.  Going through the cycel of sharp to dull mght make the knife last much longer, but will make it so you have to sharpen it more when the dulling comes, and might be trouble for a new user to sharpening as it might require additiona; sharpening steps.


Edited by LasagnaBurrito - 8/14/15 at 5:43am
post #16 of 27

Certainly, many of us can recommend carbon steel knives.  I can point to K-Sabatier or to Thiers-Issard for excellent Sabatier carbon steel blades, and many of us can point to such Japanese carbon steel knives as the CarboNext series (from japanesechefsknifde.com) as workhorse commercial knives.  But as Phaedrus pointed out in Post #8 above, and as Butleraustin92 acknowledged in Post #11, in a commercial kitchen environment, there's no such thing as a "Forever" knife.  And Butleraustin92 shows in his profile line that he is a line cook.

 

As for Farberware or other such mass market gruel, you might note that no one here even brought them up.  The only low-end (if they were such) were the "house knives" in the restaurant kitchen.  Those were likely Victorinox/Forschner or Dexters or something else commercial.  Heck, we were not even talking about Zwillings or Wustie Classics or Ikons.

 

Yes, knives can snap - especially such dross as mass-market garbage, where the mystery metal steel is mis-treated by its purchasers and allowed to sit in water indefinitely before being washed and dried.  And using a knife edge as a screwdriver doesn't help either.  But you do not even have to leave this post to see how very good steel can still be usable even when considerably thinned.  Look at MillionKnives Post #6 above to see how really good quality knives can hold up to even 3 years of sharpening twice a day.

 

Yes, sharpening removes metal.  That's the only way that a dull edge can be made sharp again.  Usually, however, that results in quality knives with the edge being worn into the thick area towards the spine.  Metal fracturing isn't common under those circumstances for the knives we talk about here.  As for Farberware, well.......

 

But even dulling and the need to re-sharpen can be delayed.  Using a quality cutting board (think "end grain hard maple") will slow down the dulling process.  So will honing with a good quality honing rod.  Honing doesn't do much metal removal, but it does realign the microscopic edge of the blade, so that the edge will present a narrower profile to the food being cut.  And that will extend the usable life of that edge significantly for all but the hardest knives.

 

Almost all of those participating in this thread do know "something" about knives.

 

 

Galley Swiller

post #17 of 27
I see the use of a rod basically as an emergency procedure you better avoid. It redresses a failing edge using fatigued steel, and fatiguing steel a bit more. Better have the fatigued steel abraded. With a few edge trailing -- stropping -- strokes on a fine stone you may refresh an edge. If you still feel any uneveness, don't stay with your finest stone but have the one before. When your 8k edge fails it makes not much sense to put a 1.5k microbevel on it. I admit you won't lose much material doing so, but you will once you will restore your original 8k edge and will have to remove all fatigued steel that has been accumulated into a more obtusely angled edge. You will notice that rod use is highly addictive. First use after e.g. two hours of work, next use 15 minutes later, and after that almost after every stroke. A poor habit.
Edited by Benuser - 8/14/15 at 4:23pm
post #18 of 27

It should be mentioned that the Hiromoto AUS10 blades are still available, worth the few extra dollars. http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/Hiromoto.html#Hiromoto

 

 

 

Rick

post #19 of 27
Have the 270mm
post #20 of 27
I have a feeling Mr Nago never intended to completely retire at this time, and we'll be seeing his knives for a while.


Rick
post #21 of 27
I don't know, seems like it isn't an uncommen practice for people to retire and then realize that they miss work and unretire.
post #22 of 27
Though possibly a planned reduction in workload and suitable adjustment in marketing strategy.



Rick
post #23 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atatax View Post

I don't know, seems like it isn't an uncommen practice for people to retire and then realize that they miss work and unretire.



When you love what you do, why would you want to retire?  They retire, and realize that sitting around all day and playing golf is boring and "not productive" so they go back to their "passion."  As long as they can physically do that passion, that is.

post #24 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butleraustin92 View Post
 


Well the house knives go dull the night we get them. I go in three hours early on prep days to knock some extra prep for the rest of the restaurant out of the way but by the end of the night which s usually around 9 or 10 my knife  can slice a duck breast without giving me trouble.

 

Also for the torijo knives. i have read a lot of things about them and i know their is no such thing as a forever knife but i do just want one that will last me a good while. I'm just tired of having to stop what i am doing to use the stone because the knife is not cutting effectively.

 

I cannot stress it enough that if you want ultimate edge holding you need to go with the PM steels, of which SRS-15 and HAP40 seem the most popular these days.  I have a Geshin Kagero in SRS-15 and I can attest to its edge holding.

 

After a few sharpening to get past the "factory edge" (the manufacturing process typically leaves imperfections in the very edge of the knife that a few sharpening will eliminate), the knife performs amazingly.  It gets very sharp for stainless, doesn't need anything finer than a 6K stone to get there, and after giving it considerable beating on an edge-grain board in 6 weeks home use, with a relatively steep 12deg/side edge, I can still whittle hair with it, splits 'em right up the middle.   And this without any touchups.

 

I have heard of knives like these going 2 months in a pro environemet without any sort of sharpening, and certainly with a slightly more conservative angle I can believe it.

 

 

 

Rick

post #25 of 27
I would always suggest a more conservative edge than 12 degree per side. If the blade is thin enough you may enjoy a very sharp edge of 40 degree inclusive -- that will need only minimal touch-ups on a very fine stone.
post #26 of 27
These 40 degree inclusive are of coarse at the very edge, with a barely percievable bevel.
post #27 of 27

Yes very good point for BA, but in my case if I did that I believe my stones would get very lonely.  As it is the 12deg is essentially a microbevel.

 

 

 

Rick

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