or Connect
ChefTalk.com › ChefTalk Cooking Forums › Cooking Discussions › Pastries & Baking › How to multiply a cookie recipe by 8?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

How to multiply a cookie recipe by 8?

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 

Hello

 

I have a cookie recipe that I am having problems with. I need to increase the recipe size by 8 times. I thought I could literally just multiply by 8, but that isn't working out to well. My cookies are coming out flat and dont hold together well. I have tried increasing the amount of flour and baking soda. I have even tried baking powder which I don't like at all, taste horrible. I am going to try and increase the number of eggs next. Changing the size isn't an option since I am using a 40 qt. mixer. Also I am using a convection oven that is running off propane.

 

Any advise would be greatly appreciated. Or a link to a site that does the conversion for me? or previous thread?

Thank you!!!

K

post #2 of 21
I could give you suggestions to do this or that but without seeing the recipe it would be like spitting in the wind.
Have one question tho.... are the base batches coming out ok in your oven?
Personally hate to bake with propane.

mimi
post #3 of 21

2 questions.

1.  Is this an all butter recipe? if not, what type of fat are you using?

2.  Are you chilling the dough before scooping and baking?

3. Did you cut back on sugar? may need to.

4. Spraying the pans? use less.

FOR YEARS I LIVED TO WORK! NOW I WORK TO LIVE!
Reply
FOR YEARS I LIVED TO WORK! NOW I WORK TO LIVE!
Reply
post #4 of 21
Saw your many questions re ovens and was sort kinda thinking you are new to the biz?
Prolly have experience but are finally gonna do your own thing and make a place for yourself, be your own boss, right?

If I am wrong just ignore the rest.

Not all recipes can be multiplied without tweaking stuff.
Some can and I am sure your wish yours was one of them lol.
I learned my craft basics from my Gma Van (miss you Gma!) then from there worked (believe me it was work...started out cracking eggs lol) for the hometown bakery until time to leave home for nursing school.
Took a different path in hospitality but never stopped baking (or learning).
I get the feeling you might benefit if you had a mentor of sorts.

Like I said before don't mean to diminish whatever knowledge you already have or disrespect you in any way.

mimi
post #5 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by panini View Post

2 questions.
1.  Is this an all butter recipe? if not, what type of fat are you using?
2.  Are you chilling the dough before scooping and baking?
3. Did you cut back on sugar? may need to.
4. Spraying the pans? use less.

pan.... that was 4 questions.
Lol.

m.
post #6 of 21

Unless you can quickly form and bake them all at the same time, multiplying by 8 won't work because your baking soda leavening will give up before you bake them. As you've discovered. 

 

Baking soda starts reacting as soon as it's wet. The wait time while you form them is already factored into the recipe. Trying to form and then wait to bake 8 batches is using up all the leavening. 

Palace of the Brine -- "I hear the droning in the shrine of the sea monkeys." Saltair
Reply
Palace of the Brine -- "I hear the droning in the shrine of the sea monkeys." Saltair
Reply
post #7 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by phatch View Post
 

Unless you can quickly form and bake them all at the same time, multiplying by 8 won't work because your baking soda leavening will give up before you bake them. As you've discovered. 

 

Baking soda starts reacting as soon as it's wet. The wait time while you form them is already factored into the recipe. Trying to form and then wait to bake 8 batches is using up all the leavening. 

With all due respect. I have 100's of cookie recipes that call for baking soda. I have never formed and baked. I always retard the dough and sometimes for a long period. Most cookie recipes call for the baking soda mostly to give the cookie color.


Edited by panini - 8/14/15 at 9:26pm
FOR YEARS I LIVED TO WORK! NOW I WORK TO LIVE!
Reply
FOR YEARS I LIVED TO WORK! NOW I WORK TO LIVE!
Reply
post #8 of 21

I heard my name.....?!

 

Without a recipe and method as @flipflopgirl mentioned, I don't have much additional info to give here.

When multiplying a recipe like you have done, I think chilling the dough becomes an important step as @panini has mentioned.

 

As for baking soda, if there is no acid in the recipe (cookies usually don't have an acid), it will not readily react in the uncooked dough.

 

If your recipe depends on some amount of leavening (like a cake cookie), for a retarded large batch dough, a double acting baking powder could give you better results.

 

Good luck!

I eat science everyday, do you?
Reply
I eat science everyday, do you?
Reply
post #9 of 21
Thread Starter 

Thank you for your help.

 

yes, they come out fine. I thought maybe it was the oven as well,so i tried a single batch. and they turned out perfect.

 

I cant give away the recipe... so this will be tough to get help.

 

but I have tried chilling the dough, freezing the dough.

post #10 of 21
Thread Starter 
Thank you so much for your help. :)

 

1. Yes, only real salted butter. Challenge Dairy brand.

2. I have tried chilling and freezing neither one helped.

3. I havent cut back on the sugar... I will look into that. I only use brown sugar and a small amount of light corn syrup. I eliminated white sugar to make them softer. (when making a "single" batch they turn out fine) I know that too much corn syrup can cause it. So maybe thats still the culprit. 

4 No spray, we use parchment paper.

 

 

post #11 of 21

do you measure in volume or weight?

Brown sugar is tricky measuring in large volume.

 

Luc H.

I eat science everyday, do you?
Reply
I eat science everyday, do you?
Reply
post #12 of 21
Thread Starter 

Thank you for your help!

 

I have tried baking soda, and the taste was too bitter.

I unfortunately can't give the recipe away. Perhaps if I cant resolves this I will have to hire a consultant.

 

So beside the sugars, egg and butters are those not acidic enough for larger batches?

post #13 of 21

None of the ingredients you mentioned are acid (enough) to make the soda react.

See my previous post... do measure by weight or volume?

Luc H.

I eat science everyday, do you?
Reply
I eat science everyday, do you?
Reply
post #14 of 21
Thread Starter 

Yes I am somewhat new to the business. I have a had a small home based bakery doing online sales, but now have a mobile bakery with a 12 rack rotating Baxter oven a 40qt hobart mixer. So we are making 336 every 15 minutes or so. We bake and sell at festivals and special events now. :) People love our cookies and line up for them, even with how they aer turning out. But now we are going to ship online and I want to be able to use the same equipment and mix the same amount but the cookies are not strong enough for shipping. They are flat and break.

post #15 of 21
Thread Starter 

We have been measuring by volume, (base amount times 8) but we have weighed the amount and then prepackage based on the exact weight.

post #16 of 21

I may not be reading correctly:

if you want to multiply a recipe you must first convert all your ingredients in weights then multiply those weights by 8 (the only exception maybe is eggs, I assume you use whole eggs those can easily be multiplied but the bigger you get, you will need to convert to liquid eggs and use weights).

 

Luc H.

I eat science everyday, do you?
Reply
I eat science everyday, do you?
Reply
post #17 of 21
Thread Starter 

oh ok, I just had no clue really I am sure you didnt read anything wrong :)

 

Ok so no I literally just did it by volume. (example 2 cups flour x 8 for 16 cups) yikes is that wrong then? I should have weighed the base amount (single batch) first..... I am such a newb lol

post #18 of 21

@Luc_H  is right on about converting to weights. Cookie, I would suggest you  measure out (as you do now) 2 single recipes. Then on a LBS. OZ. scale you mix each ingredient together and get the weight. I'm suggesting 2x because sometimes it easier to convert tsp. tblsp.etc.  to oz. It is also very helpful to use online help.  Just google in example:  4 Tblsp. to  OZ  . This will usually bring up a conversion calculator for you. Just put in the info and you're done. or it will give you a chart like below. Also, don't hesitate to weigh your eggs.

 So as to not waist money, why don't you scale up by 2x Batch. bake a double, check results. If ok, try a 3x. check results. You will see when the batter is getting weak. Lets say, one your 3x Batch.  You see they are starting to spread to much.  Then try a 3x. Batch using 3 parts unsalted butter and 1 part shortening, like crisco. This will not add more water like the butter will. It will also increase the burn point. Are you completely confused now? If so PM and I'll try to explain. Don't fret, you will get it. When the recipe becomes stable, you're not done. You then have to do some more trial and error and go buy commercial pack ingredients and try those with the recipe. Doing that volume you'll probably buy things like butter and short  in 50 lb. block

Conversion Table [US]

from to   from to   from to   from to
1 0.5   26 13   51 25.5   76 38
2 1   27 13.5   52 26   77 38.5
3 1.5   28 14   53 26.5   78 39
4 2   29 14.5   54 27   79 39.5
5 2.5   30 15   55 27.5   80 40
6 3   31 15.5   56 28   81 40.5
7 3.5   32 16   57 28.5   82 41
8 4   33 16.5   58 29   83 41.5
9 4.5   34 17   59 29.5   84 42
10 5   35 17.5   60 30   85 42.5
11 5.5   36 18   61 30.5   86 43
12 6   37 18.5   62 31   87 43.5
13 6.5   38 19   63 31.5   88 44
14 7   39 19.5   64 32   89 44.5
15 7.5   40 20   65 32.5   90 45
16 8   41 20.5   66 33   100 50
17 8.5   42 21   67 33.5   125 62.5
18 9   43 21.5   68 34   150 75
19 9.5   44 22   69 34.5   175 87.5
20 10   45 22.5   70 35   200 100
21 10.5   46 23   71 35.5   250 125
22 11   47 23.5   72 36   300 150
23 11.5   48 24   73 36.5   500 250
24 12   49 24.5   74 37   750 375
25 12.5   50 25   75 37.5   1000 500

 

  •  
FOR YEARS I LIVED TO WORK! NOW I WORK TO LIVE!
Reply
FOR YEARS I LIVED TO WORK! NOW I WORK TO LIVE!
Reply
post #19 of 21
Do exactly what @panini suggested in his last post.
When you get to the weak batch stop and back up.
Then just make those strong batches and combine until you have enuf to fill the oven.

His previous tip about retarding (holding in fridge for a few days to a week...maybe more) is an old timer secret of sorts and really can up the quality of the cookie IMO.
Gives the flavors time to marry (as well as the wets and drys).

May save you from having to pay someone to fix the formula.

Anyways best of luck with your expansion !

mimi

I would really love to try this cookie of yours.
PM me with your site addy?
Promise I won't snatch your recipe lol!

m.
Edited by flipflopgirl - 8/14/15 at 3:44pm
post #20 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by CookieLane View Post
 

oh ok, I just had no clue really I am sure you didnt read anything wrong :)

 

Ok so no I literally just did it by volume. (example 2 cups flour x 8 for 16 cups) yikes is that wrong then? I should have weighed the base amount (single batch) first..... I am such a newb lol


That is what I would do since your 1X recipe is perfect.

get yourself a decent electronic scale that you can tare.  Tare (zero out) your bowl on the scale then measure by volume your first ingredient, take the weight then tare before the next ingredient and so on. Multiply each weight ingredient by 8. That will be your starting point for your large batch. You should be close to your initial recipe, if not, adjust from there.

Chilling the dough is still a good idea.

 

Luc H.

I eat science everyday, do you?
Reply
I eat science everyday, do you?
Reply
post #21 of 21

I am going to say, right off the bat, that the reason your recipe is not working out well is because the corn syrup addition and quite possible the egg multiplication. First, just adding and ingredient like corn syrup, is a no no unless you have compensated on all the other ingredients. I do have other posts trying to explain the whys and the hows on the science of baking but it essentially comes down to, you CANNOT omit one ingredient nor ADD an ingredient to a baking recipe without the proper adjustments of the other ingredients within that recipe.

Quote:
 3. I havent cut back on the sugar... I will look into that. I only use brown sugar and a small amount of light corn syrup. I eliminated white sugar to make them softer. (when making a "single" batch they turn out fine) I know that too much corn syrup can cause it. So maybe thats still the culprit.

If the original recipe called for granulated white sugar and you just substituted corn syrup for it instead without the proper adjustments to your recipe then when you try to make a larger batch......this is where you will go wrong. Once again, you CANNOT do that. If you would like to make your cookies softer I would suggest adding a wee bit of cornstarch to your recipe to get you the results you are looking for. It makes the cookies beautiful, soft and melt in your mouth without compromising on flavour or structure. 

 

An all butter batch of cookies whether it is a small batch or a very large one makes no difference in the spread outcome in the end if all the other ingredients have been properly adjusted according to the weight/volume of the original recipe. I have made and baked 100's of thousands if not millions of all butter cookies in my career both very large and small batches and NEVER had to compensate nor substitute for the all butter within the recipe. Sometimes it has to do with the liquid from the eggs, as most people forget to weigh the ingredients and just multiply the eggs as a whole rather than understanding that eggs are a naturally formed ingredient which makes it prone to weight differently once removed from the shell almost every time. (and yes you can use whole eggs as you will be weighing all ingredients anyway) Or, as you all have pointed out sometimes it has to do with the leavening not properly adjusted. However, MOST of the time it is because ALL the ingredients have not been properly figured accordingly. 

 

What @Luc_H above and the others have said is correct. In baking, in order to multiply a recipe properly and get the best results, you must weigh each ingredient in the 1X recipe individually first to get the weight/volume equivalent. Just to give you an idea as to why, 1 cup of brown sugar (220g/8oz) is NOT identical to 1 cup of granulated white sugar (200g/7oz) in weight. Also, 1 tsp of salt (~6g) does not weight the equivalent as 1 tsp of baking powder (~4g). So this is why we weight every ingredient in an original (1X) recipe out first in order to have the proper understanding of what ingredients we need to adjust when we multiply. I always weight in grams as trying to figure 1 tsp of anything into ounces is not gonna happen. 

Quote:
 Ok so no I literally just did it by volume. (example 2 cups flour x 8 for 16 cups) yikes is that wrong then? I should have weighed the base amount (single batch) first..... I am such a newb lol

So for example.....in your recipe you have stated that there are 2 cups flour (I am going to assume all-purpose). 1 cup of all-purpose spooned into the cup not scooped (also a no-no) is approximately 140g/5oz so 2 cups will be approximately 280g/10oz. Now you can see that it is not as simple as just saying 2 cups flour times 8 equals because the baking recipe will turn out wrong. However, if you weigh the ingredient (flour 2 cups=280g10oz x 8 = 2240g/80oz) now you have the exact measurement for that ingredient instead of 16 cups you will actually need 18 cups and 1 tbsp of flour. Now your baking proper!

 

Using parchment paper is perfect. Also, as the others have said, chilling the dough is essential. I scoop portioned balls of dough onto my prepared pan, freeze the portioned balls of dough on the sheet and then store them in labelled containers in my freezer. That way I can take as many prepared frozen cookie dough portions out according to my production baking schedule and bake fresh. 

 

HTH :D

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Pastries & Baking
ChefTalk.com › ChefTalk Cooking Forums › Cooking Discussions › Pastries & Baking › How to multiply a cookie recipe by 8?