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Panna Cotta Problems (NZ)

post #1 of 12
Thread Starter 

I've just started a new job as a pastry and prep chef at a restaurant that is opening soon so I've been in for a couple shifts to try out things.

The head chef gave me a recipe for panna cotta, it didn't set, he changed it up, and it didn't set again and he's blaming my technique rather than his recipe which I think is the problem.

These are all New Zealand ingredients.

First it was

750ml cream, 0.5 cup sugar, 1.5 leaves gelatin. Didn't work.

Next we tried 750ml cream, 150ml milk, 0.5 cup sugar, 2 leaves gelatin.

Heat liquid and sugar, steep flavour, bloom gelatin and dissolve in liquid that's cooled for 30 mins (but still warm), pot up.

 

He wants a really soft set panna cotta but he's blaming me rather than his recipe which I think is the problem, not enough gelatin, but I'm scared to make it again and have another stuff up.

 

I'm thinking take the second with the milk but use 5 or 6 leaves gelatin?

 

My only other job as a pastry chef was for 6 months about 2-3 years ago.

post #2 of 12

My panna cotta recipe uses three leaves of gelatin to set 3 cups of cream/milk which is equivalent to 750 ml. So the recipes you were using were definitely deficient on the amount of gelatin needed for the panna to set. As long as you're not bringing the gelatin to a boil in any way during your preparation process, it's nothing that you're doing wrong. Except I'm not exactly sure if your sheets of gelatin are fully dissolving by adding it to a fairly lukewarm liquid. To be on the safe side, I would bloom the gelatin and heat it gently to dissolve, then add it to the cream mixture.  Bottom line though, is you need more gelatin. 3 sheets at least for your amount of cream. 

post #3 of 12

I agree with chefpeon. not enough gelatin. Are you using silver? This is just me now, I typically use at least 4-5 for 750. I usually throw some ice in the bloom water and your liquid should really not go too much over 50c or the gelatin will start breaking down. I'm also assuming you're aware of acids and stuff.

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post #4 of 12

Hey, @Luc_H, you know which forum you're posting on, right? The professional pastry chef's forum? 

post #5 of 12
Quote:
 I typically use at least 4-5 for 750. 

I do that too, @panini, but the OP said they like a super soft set........so I just went with that.

post #6 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by chefpeon View Post
 
Quote:
 I typically use at least 4-5 for 750. 

I do that too, @panini, but the OP said they like a super soft set........so I just went with that.

No I understand and you're probably right on money for 750ml. I meant to put 900ml because I thought they increased the liquid with 150ml more milk.

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post #7 of 12

@Luc_H, I just wanted to throw this out there in case others are reading. The bloom strengths only differ by number. The higher the bloom strength, usually the clearer the gel and less of that gelatin flavor. So the numbers are basically the same because they decrease the weight of the sheet as they increase the bloom strength. So the bloom strength number doesn't effect the liquid differently. Does this make sense? Like a silver 160 weighs about 2.5 gm. A platinum is like a 250 bloom strength but only weighs about 1.7gm. A gold may be 200-220 bloom but the sheet weighs about 2gm.

Very tired, hope I explained this properly. Please don't hold me to any of these numbers, I was just mentioning the concept of using the gel sheets.

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post #8 of 12

Luc_H has the experience and knowledge to be participating in the professional forums. You have read his profile right?? There is no title that he can apply to his profession as there isn't one available. Just a head's up ;)

 

@adelleda Back when I was in NZ I remember there being two grades of gelatine leaf: Gold and Silver. I remember the silver to be: 1 leaf will set 100ml firm or 200ml light set. Gold was: 1 leaf will set 250ml to a very light set (better for in a container) and 3 leaves will lightly set 500ml. If you want to mould the panna cotta then 4-5 gold leaves are what you needed. 

 

Quote:
 I'm thinking take the second with the milk but use 5 or 6 leaves gelatin?

I agree with this if you are using the silver leaf gelatine. You will have to experiment with it being 5 or 6 leaves for the recipe at hand.

 

Also, all cream panna cotta recipes tend to be a little more firmer than one made with all milk, so if you are adding milk to the recipe naturally expect it to be a little softer (or lighter) set. Essentially panna cotta is all about ratios and once you have that figured out for the recipe that you are using then you will be rocking and rolling.

 

I hope some of what we are saying here helps and let us know how it turns out for you :) 

post #9 of 12

@Luc_H ,

  You just need to change your profile. Twenty years in food service is more experience than most. I don't think anyone who views your profile will disagree. I always make a point of reading your posts.

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post #10 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luc_H View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by panini View Post
 

@Luc_H, I just wanted to throw this out there in case others are reading. The bloom strengths only differ by number. The higher the bloom strength, usually the clearer the gel and less of that gelatin flavor. So the numbers are basically the same because they decrease the weight of the sheet as they increase the bloom strength. So the bloom strength number doesn't effect the liquid differently. Does this make sense? Like a silver 160 weighs about 2.5 gm. A platinum is like a 250 bloom strength but only weighs about 1.7gm. A gold may be 200-220 bloom but the sheet weighs about 2gm.

Very tired, hope I explained this properly. Please don't hold me to any of these numbers, I was just mentioning the concept of using the gel sheets.


Bloom is a measure of gel strength which means for a specific amount of gelatine the <hardness> of the gel determines the number in bloom units.

Specifically as per Wikipedia: The <Bloom> test determines the weight (in grams) needed by a probe (normally with a diameter of 0.5 inch) to deflect the surface of the gel 4 mm without breaking it. The result is expressed in Bloom (grades). It is usually between 30 and 300 Bloom. This method is most often used on soft gels. To perform the Bloom test on gelatin, a 6.67% gelatin solution is kept for 17-18 hours at 10°C prior to being tested.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloom_%28test%29

The weight difference of sheets is usually based of setting ratio.

There is a slight correlation between bloom strength and minimum ratio for setting a specific amount of liquid i.e. higher blooms require less gelatine to set 1 cup than lower bloom but characteristic of the minimum set gel will differ in texture, mouthfeel and shape holding.

 

when making panna cotta, setting the gel is important so the amount of sheets should be similar across types but the gel strength will be quite different.

Make sense?

 

I was curious to know what type of gelatine the OP was using but it seems that for some people I am not allowed to post in this forum.

 

Luc H.

I think I understand that. But if the weight of sheet is lower than another that is not going to reflect on the set? I mean I don't own a gelometer but I know that if I'm using 1 gold sheet it is going to be a similar set to a 1 silver. The only difference is quality and price.

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post #11 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by panini View Post
 

@Luc_H ,

  You just need to change your profile. Twenty years in food service is more experience than most. I don't think anyone who views your profile will disagree. I always make a point of reading your posts.

 

Agree.

I have gone to Luc more than once for advice and/or clarification .

There is someone who uses the title "other" and no one questions or calls her out when she posts in the pro forums.

 

mimi

post #12 of 12
@flipflopgirl, if you were referring to me, I haven't been an "other" for a year now.. I'm an exec now but before no category fit because I was a pm chef in charge of the kitchen after 230 when the sous left for the day. I was neither an exec or sous so therefore an "other". I was pinged by a mod btw but proved that I was a chef so all was well. Again, have since changed titles so I fit neatly into a category now.
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