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What to get next?

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 



Ive been reading over the forums for the past few weeks and decided to buy my first J knife to replace some of my European knives for work. So have currently just bought a Hokiyama tsuchine 240mm Gyuto (which I would class as more of a workhorse feel) a couple of weeks ago shortly followed by a JKC 150mm Petty as well as a Susin Inox 80mm Paring knife.


I have other knives, such as my Wusthof and some victorianox but I don't tend to use them bar my 10" rosewood bread knife which I think is still a great knife for the price. I have a few ideas of which direction to go but would appreciate your advice, the options I see


A) Buy a laser style gyuto 240-270 to handle my more precision work that doesn't involve cutting through tough veg. (Like the look of the Konosuke HD2, as well as hearing only good things about it)

B) A 270-300 Suji (Totally not sure which direction to go with this)

C) Better Bread knife, Eg A Mac

D) Nakiri

E) Or any other direction you think


Im totally open to all suggestions.


I know you'll inevitably ask these questions so ill get them out of the way. Yes I know how to sharpen a knife, maybe not expertly but I'm always learning.

Western or Japanese handles are fine, and to be honest I'd like to add a J handle to my collection

Would like to spend preferably under $250 dollars on the knife, but I'm flexible. 

I use the pinch grip method 





My question is, what would guys suggest is the next logical knife to get to expand this quickly growing selection, and what order would you buy the rest of them?


Also any suggestions on where to get these knives would be great as I am from the UK, so can order from america if need be, but would like to keep my options open. 


Thank you in advance


post #2 of 24

What kind of prep work do you do most, and what tasks do you struggle on?  Meat fabrication ?  Veg?


Maybe you need a nice line knife to be more efficient at plating time?


No one can tell you what you're missing, it depends on your workload :D

post #3 of 24
Thread Starter 

I think at the moment the job I struggle with at the most with the knives I have is the meat fabrication side of things, none of my knives are particularly suited to it (usually use my gyuto, and there is just too much height on the blade to produce a nice cut and I try to avoid any kind of sawing when slicing meats and fish).


So maybe a nice Suji is on the cards? Would prefer a 300mm preferably unless you guys would recommend a 270mm being a better all round size?


But in general I would say I do more veg prep work, but at the moment the knives I have seem to be doing an acceptable job with this. 


So yeah what suji would you be a good option without breaking the bank like under $250, preferable nearer $200.


Also any recommendations on good cheap line cook gyuto's that would be able to take a bit of stick when it's busy and would double up as a knife I wouldn't mind to lend out, (I always seem to have the sharpest knives, so people like to borrow mine... obviously)


Thanks again 


post #4 of 24
Don't let others borrow your knives. As for meat, a sujihiki is my favourite. The narrow blade causes less dragging than a gyuto. An excellent one can be found with JCK, japanesechefsknife.com,
by Fujiwara in their carbon series. A bit coarsely grained, but that's hardly a problem with meat. Thin but remarkably stiff. You will have to put a patina on it to stabilize the steel.
post #5 of 24
Thread Starter 

What size suji would you recommend? I think i would prefer a longer 300mm one so I never have to worry about running out of room on my knife. Also, what method of applying a patina do you use?

post #6 of 24
Thread Starter 

Also, I would just like to add to this, what is the best place to get this knife from in the UK?

post #7 of 24
I use a 270mm, but I would say, the longest you may handle. As for forcing a patina, degrease with alcohol, apply a mix of mustard and strong vinegar and wait for an hour or so. Clean with a lot of very hot water. The patina is a further oxidation of normal rust. Dabbing hot vinegar or coffee will work as well. Always rinse with hot water and clean after that with normal soap. Remove the oxidant from the edge by cutting lightly into a cork. Otherwise the very edge gets deteriorated. Do all this before your first sharpening, and expect the factory edge to be weak, as always.
post #8 of 24
Thread Starter 

How well will that knife take an edge, and retain it? Also, i'm not sure they do a 300mm version? 

Any recommendations on a good line cook knife?

post #9 of 24
Yes, do have a look. Fujiwara FKH with japanesechefsknife.com
post #10 of 24
Get a well patina'd carbon gyuto you may easily repair.
post #11 of 24
About edge retention with these Japanese carbons: they come very thin, and I would put a rather conservative, not overly polished edge on it. With your use of a sujihiki board contact is less than with a chef's knife. Maintenance on a fine stone or loaded leather strop should do.
post #12 of 24
Thread Starter 

Why would you recommend not putting an overly polished edge on the blade, can you be more specific? So what grit would you recomend taking it to?


As for the Line knife, I've been eyeing up the Kohetsu Blue #2 Gyuto 240mm as a no thrills cladded carbon knife, so not as much care is needed as if it wall fully carbon, and it can give me an insight to what a Blue #2 steel would feel like. Any options on this? Im also trying to get hold of a konosuke HD2 at the moment and that is proving a challenge :D

post #13 of 24
I prefer a bit of bite with meat. So I wouldn't stay too long with intermediate stones, or use them only for very light stropping and deburring.
For general use including a lot of vegetables a more polished edge works better. But this preference might be highly personal. For fat and tendons an aggressive edge works better.
With meat I would suggest no full sharpening above 2k, and higher stones only for very light stropping and deburring, and maintenance. Often I don't fully sharpen above JIS1200, with a Chosera 800, and only strop and deburr above that.
post #14 of 24

@N3Rii  have you seen these?  http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/kitchen-knives-16/kitchen-knives/ikazuchi.html


From the knives you mentioned, you might be interested in it.  Laser, carbon steel, stainless clad best of both worlds: easy sharpening, not much reactivity.   Comes with saya.  Here's a review on this forum http://www.cheftalk.com/t/87228/need-some-convincing


EDIT:  Sorry. I forgot you are in the UK because you mentioned the Kohetsu. It is not as good a deal with shipping, import tax, and VAT

post #15 of 24
Thread Starter 
That deal does look nice, but I think I've managed to get hold of a konsuke HD2 direct from kosuke in Japan, so I'm happy about that, so that seems to cover the laser portion of my set. @millionsknives have you got any recommendations on a decent sized Suji that won't break the bank??

post #16 of 24

Are you doing whole animal or just portioning steaks?  Meat fabrication can mean different things where you work.  Mostly I do whole hog for bbq, but also I work on beef primals sometimes.  I know a butcher who sells me primals and subprimals.  I don't have space for a whole cow! But yeah, the more work you do yourself, the cheaper it is.


I recommend a few things


1) Itionomonn wa butcher - cleaning, trimming, getting around joints.  This knife is thick, it's tough, it's easy to sharpen, V2 sharpens like white steel IMO.  I rely on this knife enough that I bought a backup on sale if that means anything.  Out of stock now, but they come back in stock pretty regularly, so keep an eye out




2) For your big knife, my recommendation is look for a vintage carbon steel cimeter, 12-14"  on ebay.  This is for your big cuts like portioning steaks that you want to get in one cut, no sawing.  You can get this a lot cheaper than a sujihiki.  However 1) shape is different 2) the blade is a bit wider than most suji varies by knife of course


Carbon steel is nice if you sharpen it yourself, also meat is not very reactive and will patina the knife quickly.  I prefer the suji shape for carving and slicing, and a cimeter for portioning.  This is all personal preference mind you.  I know a guy who uses 8" breaking knife for everything..


Back to your question if you want a sujihiki you can get the one from JCK that benuser recommended or you could get the Misono swedish from JCK.   OR if you are willing to wait, then you can get them cheapest off Rakuten (formerly buy.com) from sellers in japan.  I almost pulled the trigger on Misono swedish 300mm, but I didn't want to wait.  Japan has two types of shipping, pick the more expensive one if you have the option; it's much much faster.




TIP: Use Google Chrome and right click, 'translate' the page for rakuten stuff.  It will be in bad Engrish, but you should be able to figure out ordering.


3) Bone saw if you have to cut through the spine.  *if you have a meat bandsaw or a sawzall then forget this,   **if you don't have to cut through bone also forget this

post #17 of 24
Thread Starter 
I like the look of that Wa butcher, a good sturdy knife for dealing with pork belly and the such would be good, I'll have to keep an eye on that to come back in stock.

Would you be able to send a link to the kind of big carbon knife you mean so I can get an idea?

Are you able to put forward some pros and cons to the misono Swedish, but I like the option of being able to get a 300mm version

post #18 of 24
Thread Starter 
Sorry ignored the last point, I've never had to do any work so far that requires me to need a bone saw, I think that's a further down the line purchase, always useful to have

post #19 of 24

something like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=cimeter+carbon&_sacat=0


Cimeters are wider than breaking knives, but it varies knife by knife. 

post #20 of 24
I like the Misono Swedish a lot, but their sujihikis have some flex you may like or not, both for work as for sharpening.
post #21 of 24
Originally Posted by Benuser View Post

I like the Misono Swedish a lot, but their sujihikis have some flex you may like or not, both for work as for sharpening.


Certainly, sharpening a flexible knife is a trouble.

Gebe Gott uns allen, uns Trinkern, einen so leichten und so schönen Tod! Joseph Roth.
Gebe Gott uns allen, uns Trinkern, einen so leichten und so schönen Tod! Joseph Roth.
post #22 of 24
Thread Starter 
I like the look of those cimeters a lot! Looks like a worthwhile investment for portioning and and heavy duty tasks!
Hmm, I can't compare so I don't know how much I'll like the flex in the misono suji

post #23 of 24

Flex is useful for fish, but not great on most tasks for red meat.   If you can sharpen yourself and don't mind cleaning up the blade face or leaving on patina (my preference is) vintage carbon is a great way to go.  Lots of value for your money and also some cool historical value.


Aside from cimeters, which is what butchers would use,  old school chefs would get something like a carbon steel sabatier slicer.    If you think about what sujihiki is, it's based off the western slicer.   Traditional japanese kitchens wouldn't use a sujihiki at all.


There are 3 or 4 different schools of knives to do the same tasks.  Any of them can work, it's just up to your style.

Edited by MillionsKnives - 11/6/15 at 11:32am
post #24 of 24
Thread Starter 
I think I still want a good suji for all the slicing I will have to do when we inveitably reach Sunday and have to do all these bloody roast dinner. I think I'll be mainly slicing beef with the off bits of fish so I think a stiffer blade would be more suitable for me.
But about the cimeter I'm happy to look after a decent carbon blade (machete) 😀
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