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after cooling the top surface of cake shrinked - Page 2

post #31 of 45

I have only 2 things left, then I'm verruckt! sorry, dipping many stollen today remembering my old German Chef mentor.

Set your oven at 175 and put the cake in there for 42,5 minutes. Don't mess with the temp. Don't know where you got that method and procedure from.

Angel needs the spring to get going and it needs to keep going. Don't let it burn but it can be quite brown. Looking at your slices you can almost see the line where the temp dropped.  I think you said you dropped it to 150. I've never recalled anyone I know cook their sponge at 300F.

Number 2, is try using real milk or semi skim instead of skim. The sparseness of fat might be screwing with the yolks.

Also, FYI, save all that old cake, add some other baked goods and make a great bread pudding.

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post #32 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by panini View Post
 

I have only 2 things left, then I'm verruckt! sorry, dipping many stollen today remembering my old German Chef mentor.

Set your oven at 175 and put the cake in there for 42,5 minutes. Don't mess with the temp. Don't know where you got that method and procedure from.

Angel needs the spring to get going and it needs to keep going. Don't let it burn but it can be quite brown. Looking at your slices you can almost see the line where the temp dropped.  I think you said you dropped it to 150. I've never recalled anyone I know cook their sponge at 300F.

Number 2, is try using real milk or semi skim instead of skim. The sparseness of fat might be screwing with the yolks.

Also, FYI, save all that old cake, add some other baked goods and make a great bread pudding.


Hi panini and all,

 

Have another round.  Batter preparation and ingredients are the same as mentioned on post #13 above except substituting skim milk with semi-skim milk.

 

Baking steps are as following:
Convention baking, temperature monitored with an oven thermometer and time counted with a digital counter, total baking time 43 min.


1. Pre-heated oven to 175 deg C. with only bottom heating element


2. Poured batter to a rectangle baking pan of above 1.5 inches in depth, filling up about 3/4 its depth.


3. On opening the oven door and putting the baking pan into the oven, its temperature dropped to 150 deg


4. Continued baking with the oven thermostatic set to 190 deg C.  But the temperature inside the oven remained unchanged for about 8 min and then rose to 175 deg C again


5. Lowered the temp setting on the thermometer to 150 deg C.


6. A smooth dome was formed and the cake rose to double its height


7. At finish baking the cake top fell.

 

Result
1. The cake is over-baked and burned on 4 sites and bottom


2. The cake fully rises but the texture is NOT nice.

 

I suppose it should be the result of the cake with dense texture.

 

The original recipe was found about 3 years ago on following thread;
Soft Sponge Cake (fluffy & cotton soft)
http://www.celestialdelish.com/2011/07/soft-sponge-cake.html

 

But it has been removed later.  I found similar thread on;
How do you make super soft sponge cake?
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090413151201AAlTA4k

 

I think there won't bear much sense to continue.  I'll try to find another recipe on Internet.  Or suggestion would be appreciated.

 

No, I won't dispose stale loaf nor stale cake.  I would use them to make bread pudding or bread croutons.  Thanks

 

Regards
satimis

post #33 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by satimis View Post
 


Hi panini and all,

 

Have another round.  Batter preparation and ingredients are the same as mentioned on post #13 above except substituting skim milk with semi-skim milk.

 

Baking steps are as following:
Convention baking, temperature monitored with an oven thermometer and time counted with a digital counter, total baking time 43 min.


1. Pre-heated oven to 175 deg C. with only bottom heating element


2. Poured batter to a rectangle baking pan of above 1.5 inches in depth, filling up about 3/4 its depth.


3. On opening the oven door and putting the baking pan into the oven, its temperature dropped to 150 deg


4. Continued baking with the oven thermostatic set to 190 deg C.  But the temperature inside the oven remained unchanged for about 8 min and then rose to 175 deg C again


5. Lowered the temp setting on the thermometer to 150 deg C.


6. A smooth dome was formed and the cake rose to double its height


7. At finish baking the cake top fell.

 

Result
1. The cake is over-baked and burned on 4 sites and bottom


2. The cake fully rises but the texture is NOT nice.

 

I suppose it should be the result of the cake with dense texture.

 

The original recipe was found about 3 years ago on following thread;
Soft Sponge Cake (fluffy & cotton soft)
http://www.celestialdelish.com/2011/07/soft-sponge-cake.html

 

But it has been removed later.  I found similar thread on;
How do you make super soft sponge cake?
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090413151201AAlTA4k

 

I think there won't bear much sense to continue.  I'll try to find another recipe on Internet.  Or suggestion would be appreciated.

 

No, I won't dispose stale loaf nor stale cake.  I would use them to make bread pudding or bread croutons.  Thanks

 

Regards
satimis


Sorry I forgot posting the photo of the cake

 

post #34 of 45

Well, I think you need to find a proven recipe, use a tube pan and leave the temp at one setting. and for goodness sakes, keep the cake batter closer to your oven. You must have run out to your car to get it if your oven temp dropped 25 degrees:D

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post #35 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by panini View Post
 

Well, I think you need to find a proven recipe, use a tube pan and leave the temp at one setting. and for goodness sakes, keep the cake batter closer to your oven. You must have run out to your car to get it if your oven temp dropped 25 degrees:D

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by panini View Post
 

Well, I think you need to find a proven recipe, use a tube pan and leave the temp at one setting. and for goodness sakes, keep the cake batter closer to your oven. You must have run out to your car to get it if your oven temp dropped 25 degrees:D

 

My observation told me that the dropping of heat when opening oven and put the baking pan in was caused by a large amount of heat being absorbed by the batter and only part of the heat escape.  The batter was at room temperature at about 24 deg C and the oven was at 175 deg C.

 

I have been searching heavily on Internet about how to make a perfect sponge cake at home equivalent to bakery standard.  There are many threads on this issue.  I'm not alone.  Over beating of eggs is one the cause of dense cake.  But how to justify it?  With a viscometer?  I'm baking cake not doing scientific research.

 

I'll test following recipes;
Bakery Style Vanilla Sponge Cake
http://www.kitchentrials.com/2015/02/17/bakery-style-vanilla-sponge-cake/

 

and/or

 

Angel Food Cake - Homemade
http://www.food.com/recipe/angel-food-cake-homemade-12591

 

satimis

post #36 of 45

Just being honest here...

You will drive yourself crazy with random facts found on the internet.

The cost of eggs alone will eat up the Christmas shopping budget.

 

That guy Buddy on (Cake Boss?) has shared his recipe (scaled down for home use) for sponge on his web site.

I suggest you try that and follow HIS instructions including pan sizes...not a bunch of tips found on Pinterest.

 

mimi

post #37 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by flipflopgirl View Post
 

Just being honest here...

You will drive yourself crazy with random facts found on the internet.

The cost of eggs alone will eat up the Christmas shopping budget.

 

That guy Buddy on (Cake Boss?) has shared his recipe (scaled down for home use) for sponge on his web site.

I suggest you try that and follow HIS instructions including pan sizes...not a bunch of tips found on Pinterest.

 

mimi

 

Hi,

 

Whether you suggest following site

 

Meet Buddy ?
http://bakeshop.carlosbakery.com/meet-buddy/

 

Actually on post #13 and post #24;

I already baked a perfect sponge cake except a little bid dense on lower portion of the cake.  I mistakenly thought the cake didn't rise perfectly in that portion.  Actually it was due to over beating of eggs.  There are several explanation on Internet.  Some folks also encountered such a problem.

 

satimis

post #38 of 45

Please don't used a scaled down formula. There is so much more than just dividing a formula by 24. I can give you an angel food cake but what will you do with the other 47?

I quick question. Have you done all this testing with eggs bought at the same time? Lots of old eggs being sold out there because of the price.

Also, are you using a plastic spatula to fold in the whites?

You probably need to stop reading the interweb. You can't trust any of it. Many of the recipes posted are not proven. Go back and find and old Fanny Farmer type book and use that recipe.

Most commercial information that you read on the net usually has an agenda.

Make sure all of your ingredients are fresh. What type of cake flour are you using.

Please don't think that I'm making fun of you, I really want you to get the desired results you want so you can store it away.

I also wanted to mention, the next time your at your grocery store, go to the bakery and see if they will let you have a couple of their foil angel food pans. Don't know why, but they seem to work better.

Make sure your cream of tartar is new. Don't use something like a King Arthur unbleached cake flower. That's to much protein. Use something that is bleached and is down around 8% protein/gluten.

I think The soft as silk cake flour is low in protein.

And there is always ways to get around what your doing now. Buy another tube cake and split the recipe. Seems like the first part rises well. Just make two smaller cakes.:lol:

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post #39 of 45

 

I just had our recipe faxed over from the bakery. I hadn't realized it but we split the sugars. less the half go into the flour mixture and the other half into the whites. The whites might be getting too stablized like swiss merengue and the flour might be clumping and sinking.

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post #40 of 45

My bad.

The recipe isn't there anymore (or it is buried) but I didn't do a very deep search.

I used old intel (thought he had written a smaller recipe for the homemakers out there) because as someone else mentioned there is a TON of unreliable info out there and having heard the recipe praised thought it would be of help.

 

I am out of tips and suggestions.

Good luck with your path to the perfect sponge.

 

mimi

post #41 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by satimis View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by panini View Post
 

Well, I think you need to find a proven recipe, use a tube pan and leave the temp at one setting. and for goodness sakes, keep the cake batter closer to your oven. You must have run out to your car to get it if your oven temp dropped 25 degrees:D

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by panini View Post
 

Well, I think you need to find a proven recipe, use a tube pan and leave the temp at one setting. and for goodness sakes, keep the cake batter closer to your oven. You must have run out to your car to get it if your oven temp dropped 25 degrees:D

 

My observation told me that the dropping of heat when opening oven and put the baking pan in was caused by a large amount of heat being absorbed by the batter and only part of the heat escape.  The batter was at room temperature at about 24 deg C and the oven was at 175 deg C.

 

I have been searching heavily on Internet about how to make a perfect sponge cake at home equivalent to bakery standard.  There are many threads on this issue.  I'm not alone.  Over beating of eggs is one the cause of dense cake.  But how to justify it?  With a viscometer?  I'm baking cake not doing scientific research.

 

I'll test following recipes;
Bakery Style Vanilla Sponge Cake
http://www.kitchentrials.com/2015/02/17/bakery-style-vanilla-sponge-cake/

 

and/or

 

Angel Food Cake - Homemade
http://www.food.com/recipe/angel-food-cake-homemade-12591

 

satimis

 

Now I am confused.

Do you want to make a sponge or angel food cake?

 

mimi

post #42 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by panini View Post
 

Please don't used a scaled down formula. There is so much more than just dividing a formula by 24. I can give you an angel food cake but what will you do with the other 47?

I quick question. Have you done all this testing with eggs bought at the same time? Lots of old eggs being sold out there because of the price.

Also, are you using a plastic spatula to fold in the whites?

You probably need to stop reading the interweb. You can't trust any of it. Many of the recipes posted are not proven. Go back and find and old Fanny Farmer type book and use that recipe.

Most commercial information that you read on the net usually has an agenda.

Make sure all of your ingredients are fresh. What type of cake flour are you using.

Please don't think that I'm making fun of you, I really want you to get the desired results you want so you can store it away.

I also wanted to mention, the next time your at your grocery store, go to the bakery and see if they will let you have a couple of their foil angel food pans. Don't know why, but they seem to work better.

Make sure your cream of tartar is new. Don't use something like a King Arthur unbleached cake flower. That's to much protein. Use something that is bleached and is down around 8% protein/gluten.

I think The soft as silk cake flour is low in protein.

And there is always ways to get around what your doing now. Buy another tube cake and split the recipe. Seems like the first part rises well. Just make two smaller cakes.:lol:

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by panini View Post
 

Please don't used a scaled down formula. There is so much more than just dividing a formula by 24. I can give you an angel food cake but what will you do with the other 47?

I quick question. Have you done all this testing with eggs bought at the same time? Lots of old eggs being sold out there because of the price.

Also, are you using a plastic spatula to fold in the whites?

You probably need to stop reading the interweb. You can't trust any of it. Many of the recipes posted are not proven. Go back and find and old Fanny Farmer type book and use that recipe.

Most commercial information that you read on the net usually has an agenda.

Make sure all of your ingredients are fresh. What type of cake flour are you using.

Please don't think that I'm making fun of you, I really want you to get the desired results you want so you can store it away.

I also wanted to mention, the next time your at your grocery store, go to the bakery and see if they will let you have a couple of their foil angel food pans. Don't know why, but they seem to work better.

Make sure your cream of tartar is new. Don't use something like a King Arthur unbleached cake flower. That's to much protein. Use something that is bleached and is down around 8% protein/gluten.

I think The soft as silk cake flour is low in protein.

And there is always ways to get around what your doing now. Buy another tube cake and split the recipe. Seems like the first part rises well. Just make two smaller cakes.:lol:

 

Hi,

 

1) The eggs used in all my previous tests were bought in the same time about one week, not discount eggs except the eggs used in my last test which were bought one day ago, also not discount eggs


2) Yes, plastic spatula was used to fold in the whites


3) I use "Farine à gâteaux Francine" cake flour
http://www.painmaison.com/fr/farines-pains/farine-a-gateaux-francine_R_215_673_.php


4) Heavy beating of egg whites also creates gluten which makes the cake dense.


5) I use Dr. Oetker Cream of Tartar (140g)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dr-Oetker-Cream-Tartar-140g/dp/B006JP3M3M
bought about 2~3 months.  I only used it in my first baking not the rest tests.


6) No ingredients were purchased more than 6 months

 

Other advice noted and thanks

 

satimis

post #43 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by flipflopgirl View Post
 

 

Now I am confused.

Do you want to make a sponge or angel food cake?

 

mimi


No, not for the time being

 

satimis

post #44 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by panini View Post
 

 

I just had our recipe faxed over from the bakery. I hadn't realized it but we split the sugars. less the half go into the flour mixture and the other half into the whites. The whites might be getting too stablized like swiss merengue and the flour might be clumping and sinking.


OK, I'll try in my next round splitting sugar into 2 equal parts, one for whites and another for flour.

 

satimis

post #45 of 45

ok, get ride of the plastic spatula and try to find a metal or a non porous type.

I wasn't suggesting that you were using discount eggs(which I buy now because of the turnover) Eggs are very pricey right now and there have been many rumors that

the stores do not want any returns. I've been told the expensive top shelf eggs sales have slowed and some places are actually re-crating the ones that don't sell in freshly dated boxes and are marrying all the separate eggs together. So now if I'm buying for home I buy the ones that everyone else is buying. At least I know they are fresh.

Your flour is a little pretentious but it should be about a 45 which is good. If that flour seems moist to you, when you split the sugar for the formula make the half that goes into the flour powdered sugar and the granulated for the meringue. 

Next time you post pictures please break an egg on a plate and try to get a close up of it. I've only become aware of the egg situation a few weeks ago where I know a chef who produces a bazillion fruitcakes and they were having problems. The lab results came back that the eggs were not as fresh as they should have been, So he switched to a pasteurized product.

I noticed you purchased an item from amazon. For kicks, buy one of those really light cake flours, soft as silk, Swanns Down and see what happens.

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