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Adding wine to chicken stock?

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 

Well, I found a good chicken stock recipe I'd like to try. Since I started cooking a year ago, I've been cooking mostly Chinese and this will be my first stock.  This stock looks great because a) it calls for an 8 qt stock pot which I have b) it calls for chicken bones and not a whole chicken so I don't have to use a whole chicken up to generate the bones and c) there is no added salt.

 

However, it calls for a cup of Shaoxing wine.  Shaoxing wine, by the way, is a Chinese wine used often in cooking and is similar in flavor to a medium dry Sherry.

 

I've never seen wine called for in a chicken stock other than to deglaze: would this much wine (recipe below) just left to simmer make the stock taste too boozy/strong?  I'm guessing the wine will mostly cook off over the hours of simmering, but I'd like to know anyway. 

 

Finally, I've heard some people recommend throwing in some chicken feet to a chicken stock for its collagen.  I live near a huge Chinese market and they sell chicken feet: I'm thinking of using 2-3 feet for this recipe to give the stock more body and richness.  Does this sound like a good idea?

 

Thanks!

 

Recipe:

 

-2 pounds chicken bones

-4 scallions, cut into 2" long pieces

-(1) 2" long piece of fresh ginger

-1 cup Shaoxing wine

 

1) Put chicken bones in an 8 qt stockpot and add enough cold water to cover completely.  Bring water to a gentle boil and cook for about 5 minutes.  Drain and discard the liquid.  Rinse the bones under cold running water to remove any scum from the parboiling.

2) Return the bones to the pot, add the scallions, ginger, wine, and 4 quarts water, and slowly bring to a simmer over low heat.  Skim off any scum that forms on the surface of the liquid.  Simmer uncovered for 4 hours.

3) Use tongs to remove the solid ingredients and then strain the liquid through a fine mesh sieve.  Let cool.

post #2 of 17

This must be a derivative recipe for a specific use.

 

Most recipes for chicken stock use the meat as well as the bones, plus water, and mirepoix (celery, carrot, onion, bayleaf, thyme, salt, peppercorns and cloves.)

There's no wine in chicken stock.

 

...and by the way......alcohol does not cook off.

It will get less intense but it will never all cook off.

post #3 of 17

I took a tour of a large chicken processing plant.  The plant manager ask us what we thought the most profitable cut of the chicken was.  It would be boneless skinless breast right; wrong the chicken feet they shipped to China.  I think for my first stock I would make a traditional stock then branch out from there.

post #4 of 17
Interpret "bones" as backs, necks , and wings". Feet can't hurt. I'd not add the wine, though. Too unique a flavor. The wine can be added to the recipe when desired.

Stock is an interesting thing. Great diversity in recommendations amongst Chinese chefs. Looking at three Chinese chefs:

Ming: very traditional French stock - like chefross suggests
Yan: very much like the OP's recipe but with white pepper instead of wine, and only 20 minute simmer
Ching: powdered base.
post #5 of 17
Thread Starter 

Thanks everyone!  And thanks particularly to BrianShaw.  But chefross's point about using the meat as well as the bones in a stock made me think: do I need to strip the meat from the chicken parts (backs, wings, necks) or should I keep the meat on? 

 

I'll leave the wine out.  I agree that this could color certain dishes ahead of time and take the element of control out of a dish (kind of like pre-salting a stock).  The other ingredients (ginger, scallion) I think are totally appropriate for a variety of Chinese dishes since these are "trinity" ingredients (the other being garlic I believe).

-I'll add 2-3 feet along with the chicken bones to add body and richness to the stock.

 

With this revised recipe, I think I'll have a good all-purpose chicken stock for Chinese cooking.

post #6 of 17
Keep the meat and skin on those parts. If you eat rotisserie chicken, like from Costco or a market, use the carcass after you ate the meat as a meal.
post #7 of 17
Thread Starter 

Thanks so much for the prompt and helpful reply BrianShaw.  I just placed an order at a butcher shop for 2 lbs chicken bones.  I also ordered a 1/2 lb of chicken feet that I'll add with the rest of the chicken to add richness and body to the stock: does this sound like a good idea?

 

Also: Should I chop up the bones before adding to pot, or just leave them as is?

 

Thanks!


Edited by stirfrychef - 12/20/15 at 12:36pm
post #8 of 17
Just toss them in the pot. Chop if necessary to get them to fit or stay submerged under the liquid. You'll soon find that stock making is easy, fun, and very flexible. Have a glass of wine to enjoy while you watch the pot simmer!
post #9 of 17

Get yourself a stout cleaver - you'll thank me later.  When I do anything but a whole chicken I remove the wish bone first.  Then I break down the bird and throw everything, but the heart, liver and excess fat in a pot with quartered onion, stalks of celery. carrots all chopped 2" long and smashed cloves of garlic, black pepper, dried chili pepper and a glug of olive oil.  I roast that in a 400F oven till I can smell it.  Then I cover with hot water, fresh bay, thyme and parsley and let simmer for 2-3 hrs.  Let it cool, strain out everything and refrigerate.  In the morning skim off the solid fat and you are good to go.  

post #10 of 17

Wine in the stock works pretty well actually, as does using Shao Hsing for the wine. This particular combination of ingredients is tilted Asian but it's pretty workable. 

 

Yes, you can taste the wine in the finished stock particularly if you know it's there, but it's surprisingly subtle. And there's not a lot of it in there to mess up the flavor balance really.  I actually started doing it some years ago on a recommendation from Cook's Illustrated for Turkey Stock from a Thanksgiving Day carcass. 

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Palace of the Brine -- "I hear the droning in the shrine of the sea monkeys." Saltair
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post #11 of 17

If you add a cup of Shaoxing wine to the pot at low temp and then immediately you add the water and let simmer the stock, the alcohol and all of its undesirable flavors will be there at the end.

But if you add it -which in my opinion enriches the stock-, remember to reduce it at high fire almost to nothing. The flavor will be there at the end as another layer, which is good. Building layers of flavors is always desirable,

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Gebe Gott uns allen, uns Trinkern, einen so leichten und so schönen Tod! Joseph Roth.
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post #12 of 17
Thread Starter 

All very good advice about the wine, ordo and phatch.  I think considering I have no experience making stock, I'll just leave out the wine.  As far as I understand it, stock is just a way to boil down (literally and figuratively) the essence of whatever it is you're, uh, "stocking" into the water.  I can live with a nice chickeny-tasting stock with ginger and scallion accents, considering I'm using it exclusively for Chinese dishes.

 

Thanks again everyone!

post #13 of 17

I never by boned chicken of any kind, for one thing chicken freshly bones or cooked on the bone is more flavorful, and of course you have the bones leftover for stock.  I save mine in the freezer stashed inside a plastic bread bag, break the joints apart of course.  When the bag fills I go down to a room in the basement, close the door on my dog to keep her safe, and with a plastic board and my trusty 3 pound hammer I break open and otherwise reduce things to better fit the pot, a large crock pot actually, got for $3 at a church sale.

 

About 12 hours at a simmer pace and you get almost everything there is to get out of dem bones.  Remember to skim the gunk and any fat that floats up, at least twice during the beginning of the process.  At this point the bones are soft and you can squeeze them gently (or you will squeeze out a lot of crud) in cheesecloth then simmer the much reduced mass in a much reduce amount of water for hour to get whatever is left.  These need to settle on the counter a while for the remaining scum to surface.  It's a good idea to reduce all this by 1/3-1/2, refines the flavor as well as concentrating.

 

I always boil wine before adding to sauce, enough to remove all scent of alcohol at least, and it can't hurt to reduce more severely as Ordo suggested.  Alcohol, like many other solvents, will purge out organic volatiles with similar vapor pressures as it evaporates, it's a process known as solvent distillation.

 

I never tried wine in chicken stock, but I wonder now how a sauv-blanc would go, I know it does wonders for pepper steak anyway, giving a very oriental quality.

 

 

 

Rick


Edited by Rick Alan - 12/21/15 at 6:50pm
post #14 of 17
12 hours for chicken stock? That's more of a glue making recipe than stock making.
post #15 of 17

If your stock is too hot 12 hours might be overdoing it. But if you keep it at just below a simmer, maybe 185 - 190 F it works. The broth I made for the pho in the soup challenge went a bit over three days.

 

mjb.

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post #16 of 17
I guess, but I find chicken to start tasting "dirty" if cooked too long. Very nutritious but not clean tasting

Beef is a different story.
post #17 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by teamfat View Post
 

If your stock is too hot 12 hours might be overdoing it. But if you keep it at just below a simmer, maybe 185 - 190 F it works. The broth I made for the pho in the soup challenge went a bit over three days.

 

mjb.

 

That's why you just got to love slow cookers.  I once did go a little high on the heat, I guess, got kind of a powdered bone flavor, but the reducing afterwards got rid of that.  Ramen joints around here advertise 24hr+ simmer times for their stocks.

 

 

 

Rick

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