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Are Coffee shops profitable? - Page 2

post #31 of 57
Interesting topic. When I think of coffee shops, I envision something like Seinfeld's coffee shop in New York years ago - not chains selling coffee drinks and fast food. Coffee refills, as I recall, were free.

I think that coffee shops evolved into Diners - home cooking type menus. To back up, cafeteria-style eateries were popular. I think the reason why, was/is people want to hang out, linger, and make a social? event or connect with others or pass the time.

In cafeterias, you could hang out for hours - buy one dish at a time, and have your ticket punched. Cabbies hung out at all hours after their shift in New York. The Automat was popular too.

Times have changed, but the message that comes to me re Starbucks and late night cafes, is people want to hang out without investing a bundle of money.

How that translates into making a profit, is anyone's guess.
Edited by Cerise - 3/3/16 at 8:27am
post #32 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by IceMan View Post
 

If Starbucks sucked ... nobody would go there to spend their money.

 

 

 

Uh-huh, someone once said "a fool and his money are soon parted"...

 

But it does! Stah-buhks coffee sucks royally. 

 

Iceman, you like your wine, I like my coffee, which is why I o/o a coffee and chocolate shop.  Stah-buhks coffee has the living sh*t roasted out of it, the barristas rely on fully automated equipment, but the biggest thing here in Vancouver is, that Stah-buhks up until 5 years ago, would buy all their pastries locally.  When corporate decided to buy all pastries for N.America from one central, automated bakery in the U.S. the quality went down, and the production bakeries here had to lay off staff.  Clearly, quality is not the issue, price is, never mind the fact that all that stuff has to be trucked in frozen halfway across the continent.  Yes, I know, beans come from halfway across the world, but beans don't grow locally.

 

People are stupid, they do what advertising and media tells them to do.  Remember that old Supertramp song that goes: "..and you drink cocoa-cola because they say it tastes good, and you watch television, because they say that you should"....  If you advertise enough, people will line up to buy a $10.00 cat-piss latte.  Which is precisely why the huge multi nationals spend enormous amounts of money on advertising.

...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
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...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
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post #33 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerise View Post

Interesting topic. When I think of coffee shops, I envision something like Seinfeld's coffee shop in New York years ago - not chains selling coffee drinks and fast food. Coffee refills, as I recall, were free.

I think that coffee shops evolved into Diners - home cooking type menus. To back up, cafeteria-style eateries were popular. I think the reason why, was/is people want to hang out, linger, and make a social? event or connect with others or pass the time.

In cafeterias, you could hang out for hours - buy one dish at a time, and have your ticket punched. Cabbies hung out at all hours after their shift in New York. The Automat was popular too.

Times have changed, but the message that comes to me re Starbucks and late night cafes, is people want to hang out without investing a bundle of money.

How that translates into making a profit, is anyone's guess.

If I may speculate... volume and cost-control.  :peace:

post #34 of 57

... but I wonder the same thing every time I go to someplace like Panera for lunch, pay for food, and then can't find a table because there are too many self-centered jackasses sitting there surfing porno on the web while sipping their fifth or sixth cup of coffee. Maybe everyone else is like me... I mutter curse words under my breath and then eat in my car. Panera got my money one way or the other, and I didn't starve.

post #35 of 57

Whatever your opinion of Starbucks is ... IT'S YOURS ... that is all well and good.  You can even tell me all about what that opinion may be.  It just seems to me ... a little bit ... that if they really did suck (outside of your opinion) they would not at all be doing as well as they do. Yes, I do like wine. I'm somewhat of a wine geek. I believe to know a good deal about wine. I'll be happy to tell you all about wine. As I type this I realize how I fit in the exact opinionated shoe that I am speaking out against. "2$Chuck" is absolute piss. Not at all drinkable. I guess it is my own mistake to express myself in the same style that I argue against.

 

I'm so sorry to read a bashing story about "Denny's". For a long time they were my favorite greasy-spoon kinda place. Back in my high-school delinquint days I would spend numerous late night/early morning hours there enjoying clam chowder and/or cheese soup with a patty-melt. I drank a lot of their coffee too.

post #36 of 57

Now hold on there just a minute, Iceman... you may be crossing a line.  Please leave 2$Chuck out of the conversation. It, too, fills a niche... and a rather sizable niche too.  :lol: 

 

P.S.  Here in LA there is still a lot of the Denny's versus Norm's debate... as if it really matters. Both fill you up with food at a good price! And both appear to be thriving and profitable businesses.

post #37 of 57

2$ Chuck?  Sigh...... We have Gub-mint controlled liquor here.  Cheapest piss-in-a-bottle legally available is at least $5.00 Cdn.....

...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
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...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
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post #38 of 57

Your hockey team sucks too.

post #39 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by IceMan View Post
 

If Starbucks sucked ... nobody would go there to spend their money.

 

I said to the OP if he doesn't have the kind of secret formula Starbucks does have he would not succeed, because, YES, they profit and you can't compete with that.They are not a coffee shop, they are as you said a multi billion dollar company. I don't think the OP has in mind opening a new SB franchise, he wondered about a coffee shop. 

 

And what is your logic to say because people spend money on Starbucks it doesn't suck? Because millions of people do that? Does quantity now accounts for quality?

And it happens that half of America and people who endorse your quality analysis is OVERWEIGHT, struggling with health issues related to bad diet, eating tons of sugar and fat on anything (perhaps even you?)

 

 Just because YOU may not like it, doesn't at all make it a bad product. Are YOU a multi-billionaire?!? NO, I do think so. 

 

I don't like to play semantics though I think it is the case here to clear things up.To be a bad product for coffee appreciators is different than a puke inducing product for the masses. SB clearly IS NOT puke inducing, but that doesn't make it a good product for people who REALLY like coffee. 

 

And I have no idea what my income and savings would have to do with the matter... should I have a multi billion dollar coffee shop to make my opinion relevant? Do you?
I'm pretty sure you can find high end coffee shops in Chicago where the owners are not multi billionaires nor are starving business men, but are quite successful and real in the coffee business.  

 

Quote:
Obviously there are enough people with opinions different from yours, willing to go into a Starbucks location somewhere in the world to spend their money.
 

 

Indeed, as well as there are enough people in America to get Donald Trump to the elections =/ You know? the relation of quality and quantity... 

 

Quote:

 If you can make a cup of coffee so much better ... please do. I'll be happier than happy to come in, spend some money, and help support your soon-to-be multi-billion-dollar company. Until then ... grow up.

 

 

Anyone willing to afford a espresso set up at home, purchase high quality coffee beans and willing to learn how to brew coffee CAN do that for you. The question is... do you have the palate to judge that? I don't think so...... Most importantly, are you the kind of person willing to pay $6 or more for a single Guatemalan espresso shot? Clearly not. Does the high end coffee industry struggle to survive charging those fares? Absolutely not.

 

And sorry if I sound not grown up enough to you but I never meant Starbucks would not be profitable and successful, I was just addressing your lack of background to judge coffee quality as it really annoys the hell out of me people with bogus opinions - and bad taste - pointing things they have no clue about. Optionally.. YOU could grow a decent taste on coffee and get rid of that Nespresso machine I'm pretty sure you have there in your place lol   

post #40 of 57
Apparently there is a new internet capability I was not aware of: the ability to measure and assess the palate of others based on not much more than postings to a discussion forum. What an amazing leap in technology!

Perhaps decaf would help a bit, or is that too plebian?
post #41 of 57

My favorite Coffee Shop, growing up, was Chock Full O' Nuts on 34th St in Manhattan. I looked forward to their cream cheese on datenut bread sandwiches, a cup o' coffee, and a brownie - at affordable prices.  They seemed to have some staying power ;-) Take that SB LOL

 

post #42 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by IceMan View Post
 

Your hockey team sucks too.

 

Well....that's a matter of opinion, of which everyone is entitled to.  However, if you wish, You can proudly state your opinion in front of a full house at GM Place stadium when we play the 'hawks.  It's not like Canucks fans take it to the streets and riot, or anything like that.....  :D 

...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
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...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
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post #43 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianShaw View Post

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!

I knew there were closet McRib fans out there. lol.gif

I'm waiting for the McShwarma.

Edited by Cerise - 3/3/16 at 5:25pm
post #44 of 57
That sounds interesting. I was always intrigued by the McLobster that was offered in the Canadian Maritimes. Right now I'm licking my chops over the $1.79 Lenten special on Fillet-O-Fish and eagerly awaiting the annual release of the Shamrock Shake. No closets for me! I eat junk food out of necessity and gourmet fare for fun!!
post #45 of 57

Edit for tacky language!

 

mimi

post #46 of 57
Thread Starter 

Thought I'd drop back in just to mention that I've decided against purchasing the coffee shop. Not enough parking, foot traffic or opportunities for growth. But this has become a very interesting thread, so don't let that stop the conversation. 

post #47 of 57
Starbucks has been around for +/- 45 years. If so many people are really growing so much more and more demanding when it comes to their coffee ... why have they lasted so long, and keep expanding their markets and products? Maybe because they don't suck. Maybe because more people like their coffee then not? OR ... maybe because they don't suck?

NO, I would not spend $6 on a shot of Guatemalan espresso. I do not own a Nespresso machine. They, and all other pod-type machines, are very very bad ecologically.


I use this one when I want to sit outside reading the paper. (Mine is blue.)

This one is just cool to have and use.

Every day use. Just 1 push button.

This is my favorite. Makes a good cup a joe.



semantics
The study of the meaning of words.

Often misused when quibbling about something someone said. In that context, the statement "That's only semantics" would be more aptly phrased as "You're just 'splitting hairs on word meanings."
Often used within the phrase "That's only semantics":
-- as a blanket repudiation of precise communication.
-- by persons advocating 'subjective feelings' over 'objective description' as a mainstay of communication.

The very concept of semantics is frequently disparaged by wishy-washy passive-aggressives who refuse to be accountable for their careless use of language or their deplorable lack of education.
Skater-boy was too lazy to choose his words carefully, unaware that without semantics, even his street drivel would be incomprehensible.
post #48 of 57

I miss my programmable coffee maker with a timer/clock. I always knew it was 7 AM and time to get up, when the aroma of brewing coffee came wafting through the bedroom.

 

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post #49 of 57
Lucky you... I haven't slept in until 7 since I was a child. My coffeemaker wakes me at 4:45 on weekdays and 6 on weekends.
post #50 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by chefwriter View Post

Thought I'd drop back in just to mention that I've decided against purchasing the coffee shop. Not enough parking, foot traffic or opportunities for growth. But this has become a very interesting thread, so don't let that stop the conversation. 

Sorry it didn't pan out. Lots of ideas, and opinions for thought though. Maybe Central Perk is for sale ;-)
post #51 of 57

I am a big fan of percolators....in fact I have the snazzy camp style as well as a June Cleaver model that you plug in (still works great even after 30 years use).

Both take less amt of grounds as I control the perking times.

Both make a great tasting beverage.

So good in fact that I (who usually asks for extra sweetener at SB) can take it black.

As usual just IMO.

 

mimi

post #52 of 57
As am i. How much coffee I want to make determines the pot I use.
I have 4 camp type, and 3 electric perks--40, 55, and 60 cup.
I dont currently own a drip coffee maker. And no trendy Keurig for this guy--we drink way
too much coffee, the cost of them k cups would pay all the monthly utility bills.

They all basically drip hot water over coffee grounds. The main difference
being, drip coffee makers don't boil the water and they only drop it over the grounds
once, while perkers recirculate over and over until you get it exactly how you want it.
post #53 of 57

I have used pretty much used every brewing method and equipment there is. Have gone back to way old school method. I heat water to 205. Pour over grounds. Let steep 4 minutes. Stiring once with wooden chopsticks. Pour through coffee sock.

Cloth coffee strainer. Wood handle with metal ring. Pack of 3

 

Best cup of coffee ever. Highly adjustable to personal preference. Essential oils are not lost. Packs in a suitcase!!!

Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
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post #54 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheflayne View Post

I have used pretty much used every brewing method and equipment there is.
Have gone back to way old school method. I heat water to 205. Pour over grounds. Let steep 4 minutes. Stiring once with wooden chopsticks. Pour through coffee sock.

Best cup of coffee ever. Highly adjustable to personal preference. Essential oils are not lost. Packs in a suitcase!!!

That's basically the same thing as using a French press--steeping in hot water then squeezing,
pressing or filtering out the grounds.

Speaking of old school (reeely old school) methods.... does anyone know of the trick northeren hunters still use
to this day, of heating the coffee in a large pot, then dropping a certain kind of "stick" in, that causes all the
grounds to immediately sink to the bottom?
Does anyone have any idea what kind of tree that stick is from, or where it can be found?
post #55 of 57

No idea, Meezey.

 

At the end of the day, you just wanna share a cup o' joe with friends.  One lump, or two?  Haha.

 

I like the vintage coffee mill/grinder, with a little drawer he's using. :cool: (There's a similar grinder on amazon for about $14.)

 

Do any of you grind your own beans?

 

 

post #56 of 57
I've been grinding beans for a long time. First a blade grinder and then an electric burr grinder. The hand grinders are intriguing but I've never tried one.

I like the blade grinders for speed and affordability. I like the burr grinder for better control/consistency of coffee ground size.

Best cup of coffee I get is burr ground beans in a French press.
post #57 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianShaw View Post

I've been grinding beans for a long time. First a blade grinder and then an electric burr grinder. The hand grinders are intriguing but I've never tried one.

I like the blade grinders for speed and affordability. I like the burr grinder for better control/consistency of coffee ground size.

Best cup of coffee I get is burr ground beans in a French press.


Thanks, Brian.

 

Here it is.  Too cool for school ;-)

 

 

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000M2C6NU/?tag=mh0b-20&hvadid=4963069677&hvqmt=p&hvbmt=bp&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_4sbda4c540_p

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