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Looking for a cheaper but good starter Gyuto - Page 2

post #31 of 37

The protective lacquer is not uncommon on carbon steel knives.  If you are a knife maker you don't want your stuff rusting in storage or shipping.  The user is supposed to remove it with acetone.

post #32 of 37
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MillionsKnives View Post
 

The protective lacquer is not uncommon on carbon steel knives.  If you are a knife maker you don't want your stuff rusting in storage or shipping.  The user is supposed to remove it with acetone.



So uh... Do sellers give this information out, or what?  This is the first time I've heard of this, and you know how long I've been asking knife questions....

If we dont' remove it, how bad is it?

Is it only on carbon?  I have an SS Uraku, but I would asume the SS wouldn't matter, since it's SS, and the laquer sems to be for rust prevention??

post #33 of 37

I haven't read or heard of it being on stainless. It's not a particularly big deal one way or another. It's just that when I read about people's initial experiences with cheaper knives I know have the soft iron cladding steel remarking that it's not very reactive, I immediately consider that the knife they are talking about either has the lacquer, or has a surface finish like bead blasting that seems to inhibit patina formation or visibility.

What will happen if you don't remove it is that it will come off spottily based on where it might abrade or otherwise fall off of it first. It's not meant to be a forever finish. It will make patina formation look godawful because of the spottiness when it starts coming off. 

The lacquer does what oiling the blade does for a home user, except for from the maker's side, the time that knife might be in storage/not yet sold is indeterminate, and lacquer is a more durable rust prevention method than oil.

How to tell if it's there - I've had at least one knife with it, and couldn't quite tell 100% when I got the knife, since I didn't have any experience for what to look for. Take a paper towel or something similar and fold it up, use acetone on a portion of the knife and wipe, and see if you can tell if there is some comparative difference in how the blade looks where you rubbed at vs not. If so, acetone and wipe the rest of the blade. Then rinse and scrub the blade with soap and water, towel dry.

post #34 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by LasagnaBurrito View Post
 


Since I've never sharpened before, if I dont' sharpen at the correct angle, then will I mess up the knife permanently, or just need someone to fix it who knows what they are doing?

I hear we should use sometihng like 15% angle, but I also have heard 30%, and CKTG has this chart on one of thieir knife guards but goes 5,10, 20, and 30%, so I'm confused on the angle...

Is the angle different per type of blade?  Do we have to figure it out/ask?

This is why I want a "Cheaper" knife so I can learn and mess it up if I have to, instead of a 300$ blade :).  Granted, I would like to not mess up any blade.

Dunno how I missed this earlier.

 

I've got an angle cube that helps me roughly understand what angles I'm at for sharpening. Having some picture guides, cardstock or wood wedges cut into the desired angles definitely helps to solidify what some common (or very close to them) angles to use look/feel like, for example 15deg. 

 

Start with something in the range that more or less works, 10-20 degrees per side. The best advice I have been (repeatedly, even though it sucks because it's not an easy, definitive answer) told is to sharpen, cut with the knife, analyze what is going on (likes/dislikes, food you're cutting, cutting board, wedging, steering, edge retention, toothy/not toothy, etc.) and then adjust accordingly the next time. The angle(s) you want are functions of the considerations you prioritize, and there isn't one absolute answer, even for a given knife, because we as users stress different things. As an example, I read some stuff recently that got me stressing as a lefty user about what I should be doing for sharpening J-knives, but I basically got told that if the knife really is steering and being a problem, to simply sharpen in a way to combat that (trial and error til I get to somewhat that works), and I haven't messed up bad enough to have consistently perceptible steering.

 

So that addresses the nebulous nature of 'correct'. As a relatively novice sharpener, I would recommend you just aim for building up your angle holding skills and trying to achieve even looking bevels per side (note that this does not necessarily mean same width bevels on both sides). If you're starting with a knife that has a decent looking edge bevel, it won't do too bad to just follow that for the first few sharpenings. Unless you start with a sub 1000 grit stone and freak out and go at it for hours on end, you won't get close to messing up the knife all that much, certainly not permanently.

 

Hope this helps. It's irking that there aren't really simple and comprehensively correct answers, but there are good guidelines. Most of all, there is trial and error, learning to understand your sharpening and your cutting, to get the best results for you.

post #35 of 37
There are lots of just fine no problem at all gyutos available for <$100. Now of course of our standard knife experts I'm sure will say I'm wrong and I'm not recommending/suggesting real quality knives ... but then again ... we all have opinions.


Kohetsu Blue #2 Gyuto 240mm . $99
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kobl2gy24.html

Richmond Artifex AEB-L Gyuto 240mm . $75
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/riar24gy.html

Richmond Artifex 210mm Carbon 52100 . $70
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/riar21ca52.html

Fujiwara FKM Stainless Gyuto 240mm . $83
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/fufkmgy24.html

Fujiwara Carbon Gyuto 240mm . $82
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/fujiwara2.html

MAC Chef's Series 10" Chef Knife . $110
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/macchse10chk.html

Tojiro DP Gyuto 240mm . $70
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/todpchkn24.html


Those examples are from just one(1) page of one(1) store. I'm sure you can find more if you look.

We work in kitchens ... it ain'te rocket surgery.
post #36 of 37

This isn't so much about what angle to choose, but rather on how to have a tool capable of letting you find that particular angle by feel.

 

I use a set of machinist's angle blocks, with a home-made stand to keep what I want upright.  The huge advantage is that I can set up the stand with the blocks I want, and then I can directly feel the angle, rather than squint at a screen and jiggle the angle cube.  And yes, I have an angle cube - and have tried the "hold and look" routine.  Believe me, feeling is much better than looking.

 

Angle block sets are easily found on eBay for as low as about $30 a set for basic and low precision (plus or minus 20 seconds of arc) angle blocks.  Of course, plus or minus 20 seconds of arc is the same as plus or minus 1/180th of a degree.  That's accuracy overkill.

 

My stand is several pieces of glued-together plywood, with the top being two fixed and glued pieces, one having an edge at 90o to the front edge to the stand, and the other having its edge at an angle which allows for a wedge to be fitted in to hold the pieces of angle block I want to use.  The wedge and the second top piece are sawn from the same block, so that they will let me do the wedging over the length of the angle blocks, allowing for a very firm grip to hold the angle blocks.

 

The overall thickness of the stand is roughly similar to the thickness of many of my waterstones.  The wedge and top pieces are preferably about 3/8 inch thick, so as to accommodate both a single angle block (1/4" high base) or 2 blocks (1/2" for 2 bases).

 

 

Galley Swiler

post #37 of 37

To get a visual read on how your knife needs to sit on the stone you can make perfectly fine angle wedges with poster board and dime-store (showing my age here) protractor, and some superglue to harden and water proof.

 

I keep a 14deg one sitting in the unused steel hole in my knife block.  Never bothered making others as I can guess other angles adequately enough from there.

 

 

 

Rick

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