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Feedback on new kitchen design

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 

(i posted this in the wrong part of the forum so i figured i would repost here).  My gf and I are buying a house that is current being renovated.  We are in the process of having the kitchen designed.  I'd like to hear some feedback from some of the experienced chef's to see if there's any problems or issues you guys see with the suggested layouts.  Attached is the designs below, any feedback would be appreciated.

 

post #2 of 29

What's happening the far wall blank area?  If it's just a secondary eating area as for breakfast, I'd skip that and turn it into a butler's pantry.  If you have a dedicated dining space, use it rather than leaving it idle except for special occasions. 

 

I like the second plan better. The vent in the middle of the room doesn't add anything as drawn. If you're going with one of the fancy glass ones with a lot more flair, then maybe.  Then it would be better by the eating counter to show it off though. 

 

I'd strongly consider removing the island and going with a kitchen cart, especially with the butler's pantry. You'll lose some storage, but a cart can be moved around where you want it for whatever purpose. If you're going to stick with the island, I'd look at the design with the sink and dishwasher in the island. It seems kind of an afterthought in the second version without any real design purpose but extra storage. 

 

Also, the one set of upper cabinets doesn't play right with the second design. Maybe eliminate the upper cabinets entirely or wrap the vent in dummy cabinet to establish some cabinet rhythm and symmetry.  Open shelving would be an option too. It has much less visual weight and will still give you the storage but a more open feel. Go with a cantilevered shelf not housed in a cabinet. 

 

Just my thoughts. It doesn't really address that something is forgotten, just my preferences. 

Palace of the Brine -- "I hear the droning in the shrine of the sea monkeys." Saltair
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Palace of the Brine -- "I hear the droning in the shrine of the sea monkeys." Saltair
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post #3 of 29
Palace of the Brine -- "I hear the droning in the shrine of the sea monkeys." Saltair
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Palace of the Brine -- "I hear the droning in the shrine of the sea monkeys." Saltair
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post #4 of 29

1)  Your kitchen must flow.  So, raw prep -> cook -> plate.

 

2)  Counter space

 

3)  Huge sink

 

4)  Easy access storage

 

5)  Small enough so you are not running a marathon every time you make dinner

 

 

Old Kitchen, New Kitchen
started on 11/21/13 last post 11/21/13 at 8:36am 3 replies 485 views

 

 

You need an oven underneath the stove believe me.  You don't want to be running across the room to finish stuff in the oven.

post #5 of 29

On the oven under stove topic. It's probably only 4 steps across the kitchen from the stove to the oven.  Don't want to have to dodge the island, true but it's not that far really. I have a wall oven and prefer it to bending down under the stove.  A range is usually cheaper, true. 

Palace of the Brine -- "I hear the droning in the shrine of the sea monkeys." Saltair
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Palace of the Brine -- "I hear the droning in the shrine of the sea monkeys." Saltair
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post #6 of 29
Thread Starter 

thanks for the replies guys. i'll try to answer each one separately.

 

@phatch, the far wall is supposed to be an eat in kitchen.  that's an interesting idea.  we still have the option to do that on the same side of the fridge and oven in that area since the wall extends a bit.  it's a very spacious and open layout.  interesting suggestion about the cart.  i must say we love the look of the island, however, we don't want to lose functionality...which is exactly why posted here so we could get feedback from cooks who might catch some major design flaws before it's too late.  thank you for the other suggestions, i'll be going through those now :)

 

@kuan, interesting suggestion.  you don't think having a double oven AND another one on the island is overkill?

post #7 of 29

That's a lot of ovens.  In my house the baking gets done in the morning, the cooking gets done when it needs to get done, just not in the morning when the baking gets done.   In reality, my wife makes the bread for the week (five days really) once a week and that is the only real necessary use of the oven.  The rest of it is pleasure baking or quick breads or biscuits which occupies the oven for an hour at best.

 

I find one oven cranked to 450F works for an entire night of cooking.  Bear in mind, I've probably clocked 10,000 hours on the saute line so that is the way I cook.

post #8 of 29

I replied in the wrong forum.  Let continue here where it should be.

 

 

A principal of home kitchen layout is to have the refrigerator, sink, and stove laid out in a triangle so as to provide easy movement between these three key areas.  You appear to have a large space but without the floor plan it's difficult to tell how the kitchen area works with the rest of the house and out door spaces and if, for instance, you might make better use of the space on the back wall, or we might otherwise re-orient the kitchen.  I'll be glad to help.  Can you post a floor plan? 

 

If you must keep the current basic layout, is it necessary to have the area where  the breakfast bar is open or could you have a wall there and put the refrigerator on that wall, and move the eating area to the island?  Otherwise I would put the refrigerator to the right of the window which may not be ideal ascetically but would be much more functional.  

 

Also, a minor point, having the breakfast bar at counter height rather than elevated is something to consider.  It gives you a nice large work area when not being used for eating.  It's a popular alternative. 

If you make a pizza you can eat for a day.  If you make two pizzas you can eat for a day.
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If you make a pizza you can eat for a day.  If you make two pizzas you can eat for a day.
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post #9 of 29

From your pictures here I think I got it.  From the perspective of your original layout behind me is some open space and then a living room, to the left is a sun room and presumably the back yard.  Is this correct?  What is your plan for this open space before the living room?

If you make a pizza you can eat for a day.  If you make two pizzas you can eat for a day.
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If you make a pizza you can eat for a day.  If you make two pizzas you can eat for a day.
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post #10 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank View Post
 

From your pictures here I think I got it.  From the perspective of your original layout behind me is some open space and then a living room, to the left is a sun room and presumably the back yard.  Is this correct?  What is your plan for this open space before the living room?


here's a top down model generated from the magicplan phone app.  the dimensions might be a little bit off.

post #11 of 29

How do you feel about a great room layout?  Lets call the top of the floorplan North.  Get rid of that little stub wall between the kitchen and living room, put a large island on the west side with either the stove or the sink facing the living room.  Then you have almost unlimited options to layout appliances, cabinets and work space on the north and south walls.  260sf is a large kitchen area.  The east part of the room has lots of options.  It can be an informal eating area, pantry storage, etc. depending on how you live.  The window on the north wall looks like a pass through to the dining room (?).  It's kind of a dated concept but you may have a personal preference here.   You might also consider a 30-36" deep island running north/south between the kitchen and informal eating area if there is room or you can push the kitchen west into the living room space a little.

 

If you prefer a kitchen separated from the living room, build a wall on the west side of the kitchen, remove the pass through and orient the kitchen on the north, south, and west walls or put the informal eating area on the west side and flip the design 180°.  Unfortunately will have no natural light so you can use a skylight if there is no upstairs.  I would consider a skylight in either scenario.  

 

I didn't really include budget considerations here.  This is of course driven by how long you will be in the house among other factors.

If you make a pizza you can eat for a day.  If you make two pizzas you can eat for a day.
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If you make a pizza you can eat for a day.  If you make two pizzas you can eat for a day.
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post #12 of 29

Lots of questions. Budget? Does it matter? Kind of difficult to be precise when there is no dimensioned floor plan with water/ drain and power locations. There is a lot of information missing in your drawings. One option shows a window perforation over the sink while the other shows what might be a double sized door way on the same wall? How do you enter the kitchen, and is there more than one entry? How big is the space where you want the table and chairs? How many? Do you plan on having kids in this house? Do you plan on having dinner parties?

 

I'll also re-iterate what Kuan said. It must flow. Water must be close to prep, with sufficient counter space for cutting boards and ingredients. A pro kitchen generally has areas to prep away from the stoves, and then all prepped ingredients go on one side of the line, and the stove and oven on the other with about 4 feet between them. On the prepped ingredient side there is a space for a cutting board, about 16 inches deep. Underneath are refrigerated drawers for meats, above the stove are the pots and pans. A cook moves very little while at the station. A pivot is mostly all that's needed. 

 

Also, what kind of appliances do you own/ want to own? Stand mixer, juicer, toaster oven, etc. They take up counter space, unless you want to take them out of a cabinet for each use.  You will also probably want more than one sink. Not necessarily right next to each other, but as Kuan said, a big one. Maybe a dual sink. You'll want to easily clean your biggest serving platter or pot without difficulty. 

 

Kitchen design for the home is a very personal thing.  It also depends on how you cook and how often. etc etc. You might not mind walking around the island to finish something in the oven. I would want everything close by and not have to travel too far with bowls filled to the brim or making three trips to either the pantry or refrigerator.  I would also determine if you want ovens at eye level or under counter. That might inform the overall layout. Where you prep will tell you where your knives are, cutting boards, prep bowls if any. If that's close to the refrigerator, then the Island becomes your prep table. Away from the sink.

 

Have you discussed layout options with your architect?

 

Good luck!!

post #13 of 29
Thread Starter 

@Hank, thank you for the responses. the "stub" is where the studs come down and where we had a penisula to go.  i'm told its not a load bearing beam so it could come out.  we never thought about switching the island like that. i'm wondering how that woudl effect the flow of the room. (perhaps i can take a video today and post on youtube to give an exact feel of layout)


the window is a pass through window into the formal dining room.  also if you go out through that door there's a pool a few feet off the back of the house.

i personally liked the idea of the passthrough window for the purpose of handing drinks and food through to people hanging by the pool and backyard.  i woudl consider boarding it up if it made sense though.

post #14 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank View Post

 

A principal of home kitchen layout is to have the refrigerator, sink, and stove laid out in a triangle so as to provide easy movement between these three key areas.  

 

This is the established thought on design and was focused on a single person in the kitchen. Multiple people just got in each others way in that method of thinking.  Newer thoughts now rely on a workstation concept and multiple people working in a kitchen. Usually a  Cooking station (Stove), Wash (Sink) Prep (Counter, usually by a sink). The relationship between these areas is given less emphasis.

 

I don't personally find the triangle the way I use my kitchen. Just my preference again. 

Palace of the Brine -- "I hear the droning in the shrine of the sea monkeys." Saltair
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Palace of the Brine -- "I hear the droning in the shrine of the sea monkeys." Saltair
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post #15 of 29
Thread Starter 


@jake t buds, that's a great question.  if we could keep the kitchen around 10-12k that would be nice.  currently water and drain locations are in center of room (by window passthrough).  this can change since we are going to jack hammer through the slab anyway to replace some pipes.  electrical is where we want it since it's all being rewired.

the designs are from lowes, and the left opening above the sink is a window pass through, to the right is a door way 7' 4" wide.

we do a good amount of cooking and as you can tell we liked the idea of the island.  i'm trying to see if it makes sense for us or if there's a better option (hence the posts).  we have an average amount of appliances but nothing over the top.

we have no spoken to an architect yet, this weekend was step 1 with lowes designs.  step 2 was this post since i know the designer at lowes probably isn't thinking of everything you mentioned about serious cooks etc.

post #16 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by phatch View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank View Post

 

A principal of home kitchen layout is to have the refrigerator, sink, and stove laid out in a triangle so as to provide easy movement between these three key areas.  

 

This is the established thought on design and was focused on a single person in the kitchen. Multiple people just got in each others way in that method of thinking.  Newer thoughts now rely on a workstation concept and multiple people working in a kitchen. Usually a  Cooking station (Stove), Wash (Sink) Prep (Counter, usually by a sink). The relationship between these areas is given less emphasis.

 

I don't personally find the triangle the way I use my kitchen. Just my preference again. 


Agree it's a residential kitchen concept.  In most cases one person does most or all of the "cooking" even if others get involved with prep, but yeah if a home had two or more cooks who cook together a more "open' layout would be a good idea.

 

Also the idea of a second small prep sink was mentioned.  I thought this was a trendy idea and didn't include on in our kitchen.  I sometimes wish we had one.  There is obviously plenty of space for it here if desired.  

If you make a pizza you can eat for a day.  If you make two pizzas you can eat for a day.
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If you make a pizza you can eat for a day.  If you make two pizzas you can eat for a day.
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post #17 of 29

Ok.Just saw the pictures, renderings, floor plan. First of all, I have no idea how much experience you have in regard to renovations or managing a construction project. Home Depot is as good as the help, and you have no way to guarantee something that you will be living with for a while - from a design standpoint. If that's important to you. Some people just don't care and will adapt. I think you care. Secondly, look at floor plan options which describe function and equipment locations first. Don't worry about elevations and how the cabinets will be or "what it will look like" in elevation. You can work on finishes and details later once you have a layout that you are comfortable with. One that "works." 

 

After looking at the floor plan and the info you posted in regard to power, water/ drains (not so much budget :)) you have a ton of options and shouldn't be limited to what you've presented. I can think of five options right off the top of my head. Someone with some space planning/ kitchen design experience will be very helpful. Someone to draw in front of you and review/ manage the overall concept, work function etc, for what you need as well as be proactive about unknowns. Cheftalk is full of experts with wonderful advice, trust me. But getting personalized assistance and guidance at this stage is invaluable. Coming back here after some professional work would still be worthwhile. 

 

Lastly, do you want such a large opening into the living room? Is the kitchen the center of the house or is it a more "traditional" residential layout? It appears the first thing you would see upon entering the home is the kitchen. The "great room" thing. . . If that is what you are after, then consider blowing out more walls. 

post #18 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jake t buds View Post
 

Ok.Just saw the pictures, renderings, floor plan. First of all, I have no idea how much experience you have in regard to renovations or managing a construction project. Home Depot is as good as the help, and you have no way to guarantee something that you will be living with for a while - from a design standpoint. If that's important to you. Some people just don't care and will adapt. I think you care. Secondly, look at floor plan options which describe function and equipment locations first. Don't worry about elevations and how the cabinets will be or "what it will look like" in elevation. You can work on finishes and details later once you have a layout that you are comfortable with. One that "works." 

 

After looking at the floor plan and the info you posted in regard to power, water/ drains (not so much budget :)) you have a ton of options and shouldn't be limited to what you've presented. I can think of five options right off the top of my head. Someone with some space planning/ kitchen design experience will be very helpful. Someone to draw in front of you and review/ manage the overall concept, work function etc, for what you need as well as be proactive about unknowns. Cheftalk is full of experts with wonderful advice, trust me. But getting personalized assistance and guidance at this stage is invaluable. Coming back here after some professional work would still be worthwhile. 

 

Lastly, do you want such a large opening into the living room? Is the kitchen the center of the house or is it a more "traditional" residential layout? It appears the first thing you would see upon entering the home is the kitchen. The "great room" thing. . . If that is what you are after, then consider blowing out more walls. 

 

good points.  to be honest we aren't "set" on anything.  i try not to put too much info regarding the other designs because i feel it might influence suggestions too much (i'm wondering if that happened with the lowes deisgner).  i'd love to hear about the other 5 types of designs.  just when you think you're set on one design, another option not considered pops up...this is definitely a long process.

post #19 of 29
Are there two threads re same? I replied but don,t see my post.

In short, it depends on your cooking and what you want. Looks like the project is already underway. Hope it turns out the way you planned.
post #20 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerise View Post

Are there two threads re same? I replied but don,t see my post.

In short, it depends on your cooking and what you want. Looks like the project is already underway. Hope it turns out the way you planned.

one was posted in the wrong forum (not this one).  we ripped everything down to the studs, no steps beyond the design drawings have been done yet.

post #21 of 29

Is that a fireplace in the LR? Quick Idea : Take out the wall where you want the service counter, draw a centerline from the fireplace through the kitchen and build the island around that. Invest in nice finishes for the fire place and connect it to the kitchen. Call it the spine of the house. Glass Paned sidelight panels delineate KIT from DR. The island has the service counter built in, so it's a larger island. One that would negate the breakfast nook, but you might be able to have both; still have a pass through to the DR and maybe even a glass doored wine chiller along the back wall along side the SS sub zero. Pantry where you currently have the oven and fridge. Storage below the island. It would have to make sense, dimensionally, of course. 

post #22 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jake t buds View Post
 

Is that a fireplace in the LR? Quick Idea : Take out the wall where you want the service counter, draw a centerline from the fireplace through the kitchen and build the island around that. Invest in nice finishes for the fire place and connect it to the kitchen. Call it the spine of the house. Glass Paned sidelight panels delineate KIT from DR. The island has the service counter built in, so it's a larger island. One that would negate the breakfast nook, but you might be able to have both; still have a pass through to the DR and maybe even a glass doored wine chiller along the back wall along side the SS sub zero. Pantry where you currently have the oven and fridge. Storage below the island. It would have to make sense, dimensionally, of course. 

 

correct, that is a fireplace in the LF (family room?)  the wall to be taken out is the little part between the LR and kitchen right?

post #23 of 29

Hi RyanPal,

 

     I am one of THOSE people that love flexibility. After 35+ years in commercial kitchens I am finally in my retirement house. I have indeed bumped my hip on a stationary islands and gotten tired of always having to walk around an island. The attached photo is my answer to having an island in a kitchen. I went with a portable island. It has 3", end grain, maple top as a work surface and cherry cabinets with adjustable shelves. If I am doing vegetable prep I move it near the sink. If I am doing anything in batches, like stir frying, deep frying, browning meats, etc. I move it near the stove. Since it has locking wheels I can set up a small buffet line anywhere I want to. I sought and found an Amish woodworker to build mine for $1,500 as they happen to be very good woodworkers! Another advantage is that if I ever move I get to take it with me! I also happen to be 6' 4" and now I have a work surface at a height suitable for me! Even if you don't love wood as much as I do, compare the price of stationary islands to those ready made moveable work areas.

 

 

    

 

P.S. That is a 6" deep 1/3 Pan (6 qt. capacity) I wanted in the slot to the left. I am also a person that believes this in this process:

 

1. Trim, clean and peel all veg first. (I slide the scraps in the pan for Veg stock at a minimum)

2. Clean surface and pan.

3. Cut all products to correct size. (I love onion soup and the pan really helps me!)

 

Good luck and have fun!

Have fun!
SGMChef

Don't take my word for it! I wouldn't trust me either!
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Have fun!
SGMChef

Don't take my word for it! I wouldn't trust me either!
Reply
post #24 of 29

We all have our own style but when it comes to decision making, it is still you who will decide for the final layout or if you'd like to add more. Well for me, I don't have anything to say about that layout, if that is mine, I'd go for it. No more edits and all stuff.

post #25 of 29

Hi. Ryan.

 

I copied and pasted my initial reply (from the first thread) here, so you could have all the ideas in the same place, and compare notes.

 

Kitchens and bathrooms can run into big bucks - but can add property/ resale value.

 

I would consider personal cooking needs and wants.

 

Consult with experts and check out "licensed" contractors.

 

I cook with gas, so I might look into hookups for same and dishwashers. Lighting is important. Noticed you have an empty back wall. You might move the fridge there, and add more kitchen cabinets extending to the ceiling. I like the clean seamless lines of Swedish designs, and fridge hidden within a cabinet away from the entry. I like and have a small scale somewhat open floor plan where the dining room is adjacent to the kitchen. Currently looking into having some cabinet fronts replaced with glass for an open look.

 

Shop around on the internet etc. One day cold stainless steel and restoration hardware is in stylè, the next farmhouse sinks and shabby chic is in style. Lots of things to consider.

 

Do you want a pizza oven or a wine chilling thingamajig? If so, factor them into the plan.

post #26 of 29

Instead of an island, you might go with an "L" shape (below).  I like some elements, like the white subway tiled backsplash, glass cabinets, paneled dishwasher, marble countertops, recessed lighting, gooseneck faucet.

 

http://www.decorpad.com/photo.htm?photoId=103079&index=8&spaceId=21

post #27 of 29

Oh, Restoration Hardware has some beautiful cabinet pulls and knobs (and everything else. lol); I love looking at kitchens.

 

https://www.restorationhardware.com/catalog/category/products.jsp?parentCatId=cat3850005&topCatId=cat160082&categoryId=cat1512023&sale=false

post #28 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by kuan View Post

 

5)  Small enough so you are not running a marathon every time you make dinner

 

 

 

My kitchen is 12 feet by 9 feet. I've got this point covered.

 

mjb.

Food nourishes my body.  Cooking nourishes my soul.
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Food nourishes my body.  Cooking nourishes my soul.
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post #29 of 29

Don't forget to plan on garbage management, since the moment you produce it to the moment you dispose it.

Gebe Gott uns allen, uns Trinkern, einen so leichten und so schönen Tod! Joseph Roth.
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Gebe Gott uns allen, uns Trinkern, einen so leichten und so schönen Tod! Joseph Roth.
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