or Connect
ChefTalk.com › ChefTalk Cooking Forums › Professional Food Service › Professional Catering › Commercial Kitchen Rentals › PLS HELP! Cost of building a commercial kitchen for ice cream shop
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

PLS HELP! Cost of building a commercial kitchen for ice cream shop

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 

Hello,

 

I have been working on my bplan to open my artisan gelato shop (I will produce in house). Everything is done, and I have gone over all the numbers over and over, but I have been going crazy over finding an estimate of what it would cost to build out a commercial kitchen. Some have told me it could be 120k, others say 20k. PLEASE HELP ME! I have called many general contractors, but they say that they need to see the layout of the place. But I can't get a layout until I show the landlords that I have financing, and I can't get financing until I have outlined all of my costs. It's been impossible to get a breakdown of the costs of setting up a commercial kitchen. 

 

The shop will be a small "hole in the wall" type of place, and the kitchen space (near Los Angeles, CA) will be around 150-250 sq ft. I won't need a hood, but I believe I'll need a grease trap. How much would it cost to get the flooring, plumbing, electric, architect (if needed), permits, etc done? I'm looking for an estimate NOT including equipment, just the layout of a commercial kitchen. 

 

I know that finding a place that already has a kitchen would be ideal, but in my area this is very difficult to find. So I am preparing for the worst case scenario.

 

Thank you so much for any help!

post #2 of 13

Welcome to chef talk.  You may get some advice you don't like.  The advise is well intended and from a lot of experience.

 

Do you have a business plan?  Do you have collateral for your loans?  A loan is almost impossible to get for a startup food business.  It sounds like you need to hire a food service consultant.  Contractors can not work without plans.  Plans cannot be drawn without equipment lists.  You could go to your local small business administration's SCORE group for help.  Also you could investigate  a franchise arrangement.  While figuring cost don't forget the working capital for the first years when you make no profit.  It is a hard hard business especially if you lack experience.    

 

Good luck

post #3 of 13

This isn't an easy process unless you have worked in a kitchen and know how much room is needed to accomplish your daily needs. What you need to do is make a list of all the equipment that you need to make homemade Gelato. Then figure out whats needed for refrigeration and freezers, sinks, work tables and so on. There are on line equipment companies that can give you pricing right on their site. You can also call an equipment company and they will design what you need as long as they have the sq footage. This method will give you all you need. The equipment company could also hook you up with contractors they worked with in the past.........Good luck and welcome to Cheftalk......

post #4 of 13
Thread Starter 

Thanks Jimyra and ChefBilly,

 

I do have a business plan, I don't have collateral, and I understand It will be difficult to get financing. I have a list of all the equipment I need and I know the total square footage (ca. 200sq ft). I have worked in a kitchen, and I have worked in a gelato shop as well. I have taken various courses and spoken to many professionals, so I do know what requirements the kitchen needs. 

 

To get a quote from a contractor do I have to have professional drawn plans? Or can I hand draw them myself to scale? I am a little surprised that there is no industry average/sq ft type of pricing. 

 

Thanks again, and thanks for the welcome!

post #5 of 13

I'm still trying to wrap my head around this post.

 

I love to give out advice, and my advice (as with almost everyone else) is based on experience in the field.  While I know from experience precisely what the City of Vancouver wants in terms of plumbing, electrical, and health concerns, l have no idea what municipality you are in and what "quirks" your municipality has.  For instance, I know most municipalities in the state of Cal. insist on some kind of weird-azz floor drain for all plumbing appliances.  Here in B.C. we just need anti-backflow devices on all plumbing appliances.

 

Most ice cream production kitchens get the "hairy eyeball" from yea olde healthe inspector, as ice cream, particularily cooked custard types are a potential health hazard if proper procedures and temperatures are not observed.  They'll be wanting haccp plans, temp. recording logs, dating procdures, sanitation procedures, and all of that stuff.

 

The basic rule of refrigeration is that  refrigeration doesn't make things cold, refrigeration removes or displaces heat.  Thus any equipment you have that freezes ice cream or stores ice cream will pump out that heat.  If you have all of this equipment in a tiny 250 sq ft kitchen with no remote compressors, it's gonna be a sauna in there.  And then there's the dipping cases in the parlour as well, they'll be pumping out heat too,..  How will you deal with this heat?  If you are renting, will you be so foolish as to make serious leasehold improvements (ie air conditioning, ventilation, upgraded power service, etc.)  for your landlord?  A grease trap already is a lease hold improvement, and while the box itself is  cheap, the cost of installation can be anywhere from 2-5 times the cost of the box.  This is a leasehold improvement, you can't take this with you when your lease is up.

 

Honestly?  My best advice, and I mean this with all respect towards you, is to put everything on perma-hold and go and work for a few different ice cream parlours.  Get to know the business, the equipment, the suppliers, the current trends.  With this under your belt, and perhaps with a year or two of managing such a place, the banks will be a lot more interested to talk with you.

 

Hope this helps, please understand I mean no disrespect. 

...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
Reply
...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
Reply
post #6 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by tondiman View Post
I am a little surprised that there is no industry average/sq ft type of pricing. 

 

 

What you are asking answers for is a little too open ended for there to be any industry averages. It is kind of like what is the price of house?

 

Also too, I think since you are not considering equipment etc, I think you are asking your question in the wrong industry. I would think contractors would be better equipped to give you answers to your question since it seems to be basically construction/remodel oriented (flooring, plumbing, electric, architect, permits, etc.)

 

My guess (and take this with a grain of salt because this isn't what I am paid for and it is really too open ended) based on my experiences is $200 a square foot before any equipment is purchased.

Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
Reply
Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
Reply
post #7 of 13

I always start with a kitchen designer. Remember, you won't be able to use your equipment for collateral.

If I were you, I would develop some prototypes or flavors and peddle them around to try to get some working capital.

The banks will laugh at you. I just needed 275K for a project and the bank wanted me to jump through hoops.  21 yrs. in business and have had growth

every year. Have credit card purchases just from 1/2 of business 5 times more.The best my own bank could do was to give me the 275K but they wanted an equivalent amount of CD, and I had to lock it up.

Search the Internet for investors. I would barrow as a last resort. Deal with your equity., shop for a silent cash partner. You will need funds to equip and build the place and I always like

to have at least 50% percent in reserve or line of credit. I've met very few people open a place and try to live out of the register and make it.

I got my 275 VC with a small equity. Didn't matter to me, I kept the new venture a separate entity.

I it very easy to get funds because there is so much cash on the streets. You can do better sharking it then the bank. I would take having to make an excuse to Veto every once in a while then have the bank harassing me 10 hrs. a day

FOR YEARS I LIVED TO WORK! NOW I WORK TO LIVE!
Reply
FOR YEARS I LIVED TO WORK! NOW I WORK TO LIVE!
Reply
post #8 of 13

If I were you, I would find a kitchen to rent that suits my needs. Start making gelato to sell to upscale restaurants. This is the walk before you learn to run approach that has low risk.

post #9 of 13

Hello,

I am looking for a commercial kitchen in LA, OC, IE area that has been approved by the agriculture dept. that I can rent  where I can make ice cream, I can bring my own machine 

 

Thank you

Patty 

post #10 of 13

You can get a cost estimate suitable for budget purposes by using a publication available in most libraries from the American Institute of Architects.  It has tables giving square foot costs of virtually every building material and installation costs.  The estimates are then adjusted with multipliers to adjust for your region.  Pick an available commercial space that represents what you have in mind, measure it, and make a plan to use for your estimate.  If you can't do the drawing yourself you can hire a draftsman to draw a plan cheaper than an architect.  Estimating design costs is more difficult.  The best thing to do is interview some designers and get an idea of what they may charge.  Then mark that up 50% for budget purposes.  That may seem excessive but they may low ball you, and in any event you will likely make changes that will increase design costs.  Go to the city planning department to get an idea of permit costs.   

If you make a pizza you can eat for a day.  If you make two pizzas you can eat for a day.
Reply
If you make a pizza you can eat for a day.  If you make two pizzas you can eat for a day.
Reply
post #11 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by tondiman View Post
 

Hello,

 

I have been working on my bplan to open my artisan gelato shop (I will produce in house). Everything is done, and I have gone over all the numbers over and over, but I have been going crazy over finding an estimate of what it would cost to build out a commercial kitchen. Some have told me it could be 120k, others say 20k. PLEASE HELP ME! I have called many general contractors, but they say that they need to see the layout of the place. But I can't get a layout until I show the landlords that I have financing, and I can't get financing until I have outlined all of my costs. It's been impossible to get a breakdown of the costs of setting up a commercial kitchen. 

 

The shop will be a small "hole in the wall" type of place, and the kitchen space (near Los Angeles, CA) will be around 150-250 sq ft. I won't need a hood, but I believe I'll need a grease trap. How much would it cost to get the flooring, plumbing, electric, architect (if needed), permits, etc done? I'm looking for an estimate NOT including equipment, just the layout of a commercial kitchen. 

 

I know that finding a place that already has a kitchen would be ideal, but in my area this is very difficult to find. So I am preparing for the worst case scenario.

 

Thank you so much for any help!

 

Here we are a few months down the road....

Was wondering what measures had to be taken and if all that panned out.

May help the next time this question comes up (and it will)....

 

mimi

post #12 of 13

@Patty ice cream,

   I don't know how it is in Ca. In my state the approval from the Health Department is done with the business and not the property. Retail requires an inspection from the local Health Department.

If a kitchen is producing for retail but also produces products to wholesale to other venues, that requires a manufacturing permit. That involves meeting State Health Department requirements and State inspection. 

FOR YEARS I LIVED TO WORK! NOW I WORK TO LIVE!
Reply
FOR YEARS I LIVED TO WORK! NOW I WORK TO LIVE!
Reply
post #13 of 13
Thank you,
In California if you want make ice cream, you must be approved by the Health and dairy department.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Commercial Kitchen Rentals
ChefTalk.com › ChefTalk Cooking Forums › Professional Food Service › Professional Catering › Commercial Kitchen Rentals › PLS HELP! Cost of building a commercial kitchen for ice cream shop