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Knife Sharpening Jig

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 

I really REALLY like sharp SHARP knives.  I have some good knives but I stink at sharpening them.  Sending them out for sharpening is too expensive for a retiree's budget; so I'm looking to improve my sharpening skills.  I use a steel to keep edges crisp, but I need something to bring a badly dulled knife back to a good hone.  My knives are not super expensive, but made of good steel.  They do not get over used as one would expect in a commercial kitchen; therefore I don't need to invest is expensive sharpening gear.

 

I found this . . .

 

http://www.amazon.com/Sharpener-Professional-Sharpening-Fix-angle-III/dp/B015XKSNS2/ref=sr_1_33?ie=UTF8&qid=1456875702&sr=8-33&keywords=Knife+Sharpener

 

It seems to control angles which is my biggest problem trying to hand-sharpen.  Does anyone use this jig?  Does it work for you? . . . worth the money?

 

If you don't use this one but use another one, care to share what it is and what you like or dislike about it?

 

TIA

post #2 of 22

Try dragging your sharpened edge backwards several times on wet-or-dry that's been placed on a mouse pad.  Then drag your edge thru a piece of cardboard.


Edited by kokopuffs - 3/2/16 at 9:54am

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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

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post #3 of 22

Sure can't beat that price... may be worth the experiment!

 

I've experimented with a similar (but different) jig not long ago. It worked well but took a lot longer than sharpening by hand. A jig like that will not do "thinning" as someone invariably will tell you soon. In my experience thinning helps but is not quite the problem some make it out to be until one starts sharpening a measurable amount of steel from a blade. It sounds like you need the knives to be seriously sharpened, so your honing can continue to fine tune that edge.

post #4 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianShaw View Post
 

......................... A jig like that will not do "thinning" as someone invariably will tell you soon. In my experience thinning helps but is not quite the problem some make it out to be until one starts sharpening a measurable amount of steel from a blade....

Somewhere on the net (I know I know) someone mentioned that many owners of RH Forschner SS blades are having them thinned a substantial amount prior to putting them into service.  My 6 inch sabre shaped semi-flexible boning knife could certainly use some thinning after almost 40 years of use.


Edited by kokopuffs - 3/2/16 at 11:55am

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post #5 of 22
About brand new Victorinox: I would indeed at least ease the shoulders
post #6 of 22
To the OP: as you've used a honing steel some fatigued steel has to be removed. Cutting a few corks with different angles (say 4, 8, 10, 12, 16, 20 and 35 degree) may be helpful for reference.
The thickening behind the edge with the use of a jig will have noticeable effect after only a few sharpenings.
post #7 of 22
I don't doubt you, Benuser, but continue to struggle with the geometry (measured or calculated, not theoretical or hypothetical) aspect of thinning. I have a mid-1800's carving knife with a thick blade. It required thinning before it would take a decent edge. But that was once in about the past 5 years of use, steeling, and sharpening.
post #8 of 22

The edge on my Vic came in at .015", which is considerably thinner than the typical German knife at .025+.  I immediately took it down to .010", which it can handle without damage.  The difference in cutting is like night and day.

 

If you don't mind an edge that is .030", then I guess you won't be doing a lot of thinning.

 

I have a paring knife with a mere .003" on edge, and I am actually gonna take it down another notch.

 

Most of my knives are <.010".  Too keep them that way I actually do a bit of thinning every time I do a full scale sharpening.

 

Thin edges cut better, plain and simple, and last longer too, because you reduce cutting force and subsequently board impact.

 

You don't need a jig to thin, you just hold the knife at a very shallow angle, and put a narrow strip of Scotch tape on either side of the spine if you want to avoid scratching too much of the finish.

 

If you get the edge pro knock-off they have helpful accessories for them at CKTG.

post #9 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Alan View Post
......If you get the edge pro knock-off they have helpful accessories for them at CKTG.

Like what kind of helpful accessories.   Hmmmm, I wonder how the edge pro or its knock-off compares to the Norton Tri Hone.

 

The edge pro apex 3 uses ceramic stones.  Would they not be recommended for sharpening carbon or stainless steels???

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

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post #10 of 22

BrianShaw My Artifex absolutely needed considerable thinning and easing the huge bevel shoulders before it would cut anything like a Tojiro DP OOTB. The wedging was noticeable even to a novice like myself, and even on day 1 of owning the knife, I felt compelled to fix it up. I'm talking a couple of hours of sharpening, and I have coarse enough stones for the task.

It was (and continues to be, including even today) an enriching process as to what thinning can do to a not-already thin behind the edge knife, but after those first few hours of sharpening a couple of months back being excited feeling its performance improving, I picked up my Tojiro again to use and thought "what the heck I pretty much only got it to this level".

post #11 of 22
Don't misunderstand me. Not questioning the value of thinning. It is required when required. I am incorrect about the jig; it probably can be set at low enough angle to thin. All I saying is that I still ponder the frequency of thinning that some folks prescribe. I thin occasionally when required, but not every time or even every fifth time. Rick and I have discussed this before and I appreciate his measurement-based opinions. It's the arithmetic of geometric changes resulting from a routine sharpening, whatever that is, that I don't yet believes changes as fast as some say it does.
post #12 of 22

I mostly do touch up on finer stones.  I do real sharpening 2 or 3 times a year?  It takes off very little metal on water stones, so I don't even thin every year.

 

Most of the knives I've had to thin were not from my sharpening but were just bad cutters out of the box.  That's why they were cheap project knives

post #13 of 22
In other words, Rick measures .010" behind the blade. How much bigger does that measurement get after a routine sharpening? What is the rate of growth?
post #14 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by MillionsKnives View Post

I mostly do touch up on finer stones.  I do real sharpening 2 or 3 times a year?  It takes off very little metal on water stones, so I don't even thin every year.

Most of the knives I've had to thin were not from my sharpening but were just bad cutters out of the box.  That's why they were cheap project knives

That's my experience... And the point I was trying to make. Thanks.
post #15 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianShaw View Post

Don't misunderstand me. Not questioning the value of thinning. It is required when required. I am incorrect about the jig; it probably can be set at low enough angle to thin. All I saying is that I still ponder the frequency of thinning that some folks prescribe. I thin occasionally when required, but not every time or even every fifth time. Rick and I have discussed this before and I appreciate his measurement-based opinions. It's the arithmetic of geometric changes resulting from a routine sharpening, whatever that is, that I don't yet believes changes as fast as some say it does.

Thanks for clarifying.

 

As far as the changes from the routine sharpening...the more proficient the sharpener, the smaller burrs that will need to be generated per instance, and the less metal that gets removed. A beginner at this may very well warrant more frequent thinnings due to less efficient routine sharpenings. My estimation is that every 3-5 of my sharpenings would warrant at least a little time on the coarse stones.

post #16 of 22
Thread Starter 

You guys are zooming way over my head.  I understand what you are saying, but my knives see only domestic kitchen service and are not used every day.  Everyday knives are kept in a drawer and the wife uses them because I had some bad damage to very good, expensive knives caused by the way she handled them.  She didn't know, so the fault was mine for the damage.  Now, though, my good knives stay in a knife block and are hand washed, cloth dried, allow to dry further in the air then returned to the block.

 

I read a web article recommended in another thread, CRS prevents me recalling the author's name for credit, but learned a great deal.  I'm certain that I need to round the top edge of my knives because I get hand sore no more often than I use them.  I've about decided to drop a dime for one of these inexpensive jigs (wish I could find and EdgePro Apex on CL, lol) but not the one pictured in the link I posted.  I will evaluate and post a review from this old novice's viewpoint if I do.

 

All your comments about thickness raises a question for me.  Where are you measuring the thickness relative to the cutting plane?  Do you measure 5 mm up from the cutting edge or as close to it as you can get?  I have a good micrometer and will measure my knives, but I need to know where to take the measurements to compare them to the things you've written.

 

Much obliged for the responses!

 

rh

post #17 of 22

No need to feel yourself tasked here rabithutch, it's pretty simple really, and of course some of us do things "almost" just because we can, but the differences are felt.

 

You actually measure right behind the primary bevel (but not the microbevel if such is in place).  For an accurate reading it takes a decent eye, steady hand and light touch because, depending on the sharpening angle and thickness, you are talking about an area typically in the range of .02-.03" wide, "for a thin edge."  And of course take care not to ding your edge.

 

You don't actually need to measure, you can just thin in steps over time till you're where you feel you want to be.

 

Thinning is not a complicated thing.  Raising a burr will increase your thickness .001+, here depending on both the primary and secondary bevel along with how much you take off, but don't bother thinking too hard on that one.

 

When I say I thin a bit whenever I take it to the level of raising a burr it amounts too spending 5 minutes or so wearing down some the high spots on my 1K stone.

 

 

@kokopuffs, CKTG has a collar attachment that helps with angle setup between stones and a magnet to help hold the knife in place, low bucks, and then an angle cube is a nice addition also.  You can get all kinds of stones for the edge pro, and for the most part I think the more they cost the better they work, regardless of knife.

post #18 of 22
In the discussion about the need of thinning in careful home usage I missed one point. A lot of knives have a weak OOTB edge due to factory buffering. During the very first sharpening often quite a bit of steel has to got abraded, and it is good practice to start behind the edge, i.e. by thinning.
post #19 of 22
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Alan View Post

...........................@kokopuffs, CKTG has a collar attachment that helps with angle setup between stones and a magnet to help hold the knife in place, low bucks, and then an angle cube is a nice addition also.  You can get all kinds of stones for the edge pro, and for the most part I think the more they cost the better they work, regardless of knife.

I am advised that the following sharpener from CTKG is THE one to get, the one with Shapton glass stones.

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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post #20 of 22

Yeh now that you mention it I think with the edge pro the SG stones will work best as they are splash and go and dish even slower than the Chosera/Niniwa Pro stones.  The fact that the SG stones have poor feedback is not a concern for the EP.

post #21 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Alan View Post
 

Yeh now that you mention it I think with the edge pro the SG stones will work best as they are splash and go and dish even slower than the Chosera/Niniwa Pro stones.  The fact that the SG stones have poor feedback is not a concern for the EP.


At CTKG both SG sets are sold out and that's a testimony to their usefulness.

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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post #22 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Alan View Post
 

Yeh now that you mention it I think with the edge pro the SG stones will work best as they are splash and go and dish even slower than the Chosera/Niniwa Pro stones.  The fact that the SG stones have poor feedback is not a concern for the EP.


I just ordered from CKTG the EDGE PRO ESSENTIALS kit with Shapton stones and an angle cube for around $300 or slightly less.  We'll see how it stacks up against my oil stones.

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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