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Cheftalk is a treasure trove of info on fish and chips, but why doesn't anybody address what Parts of the Fish are best for F&P - Page 3

post #61 of 89

The trouble with that is there is a season on walleye. They fish it from the middle of May until the middle of June, so the four or five week season is the only time you can get it fresh. After that it's all frozen because the season is done. If you are in an area where people like walleye (my area) and you tell them they can only have it in May and June because you won't buy frozen, they will lynch you. I ran a restaurant that was around 70-80 seats, open 5-6 hrs. per day and I used to go through at least 60# of walleye per week. I used to have people come in and tell me they had grown up on one coast or the other and that our seafood was as fresh tasting as any they had ever had. Everything I had came in frozen. However, I bought the best quality I could get. I remember watching an episode of Hell's Kitchen where they were catering a wedding. The team doing the appetizer was using salmon. The store had Coho salmon frozen, but they insisted on fresh and bought a lesser grade. The guests were not happy. They were saying "Well, it was fresh. It was a no-brainer." At that point I was thinking they'd buy a dog turd over the Coho just because it was fresh. And the people would be served dog turd. People in the mid west are used to eating frozen fish. They like cod too, and that's the only way they can get it. They buy it frozen in the grocery store.Walleye can be bony, which some people don't like, and it can have a "fishy" taste that cod doesn't have. Quite frankly, it's all they've ever had, they're used to it and they really don't care. I wouldn't stress too much over it. If you can find dry pack without what they call STP (aids in the IQF process) that would be your best quality upgrade that you can feasibly do. If you get too high hat over it, your prices will go way up and you won't sell it.

post #62 of 89
Thread Starter 

Talking to my chef friend, and he was telling me its stupid to fry really good fish.  the taste is is in the batter, the fish only contributes texture, is that true?

post #63 of 89


it's a 50/50 thing..yes the taste of the batter is important just as much as the taste of the fish is important. if you fry up a piece of rancid fish, it won't make a difference how good the batter is...lol

post #64 of 89
Thread Starter 

So i will be using a IQF Pollock

so from reading F&C posts on here, here are the things i learned.

 

1.  Make sure the fish is completely thawed

2.  You wan't a thin coating of flour THEN throw it in your batter

3.  Important ingredients in your batter include oil (makes the crust rich and tight) and corn starch (retards oil being absorbed) and sugar&paprika&turmeric (colour), baking powder to blow up and make it seem bigger, garlic for taste

4.  keep the batter cold

5.  Make sure that your batter is more thinner as opposed to thicker, ice cubes are a good idea

6.  375*C oil
7.  Swim the battered fish (10 sec)

 

Not sure about eggs and malt vinegar?


Edited by The novice - 4/18/16 at 11:13pm
post #65 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by The novice View Post
 

So i will be using a IQF Pollock

so from reading F&C posts on here, here are the things i learned.

 

1.  Make sure the fish is completely thawed

2.  You wan't a thin coating of flour THEN throw it in your batter

3.  Important ingredients in your batter include oil (makes the crust rich and tight) and corn starch (retards oil being absorbed) and sugar&paprika&turmeric (colour), baking powder to blow up and make it seem bigger, garlic for taste

4.  keep the batter cold

5.  Make sure that your batter is more thinner as opposed to thicker, ice cubes are a good idea

6.  375*C oil
7.  Swim the battered fish (10 sec)

 

Not sure about eggs and malt vinegar?


if you weren't in the middle of nowhere, i'd be frowning on the Pollock choice. It's a bit of a darker fish a bit on the light grey side. But it is what it is. Tell me how the batter works out, interesting combo. I've really never used garlic in a fish batter, nor sugar. I've always depended on the frying process for "Color" never the spices you're considering. What kind of liquid are you going to be using?  Water, beer, milk? Ever thought of using that as a dry mix and not in a batter?

post #66 of 89

The baking soda is not there to make the product appear larger.

At least I would hope that is not the case.

Rather to lighten what could end up being an otherwise heavy crust.

 

mimi

post #67 of 89
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justa Chef View Post
 


if you weren't in the middle of nowhere, i'd be frowning on the Pollock choice. It's a bit of a darker fish a bit on the light grey side. But it is what it is.

:blush: I know......:(

post #68 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by The novice View Post
 

:blush: I know......:(

Pollack should be OK. Its not the BEST choice, but given your options it will have to do. Pollack tends to have much smaller flakes and the texture can be mushier. I'd be worried the texture might get worse if you have to use frozen. The best thing you can do is to nail down your batter and technique so that, despite your "fresh fish" limitations, they are mitigated by perfectly crisp and seasoned fish. 

 

Haddock would work better, if you can get that (bigger flakes, a bit firmer). I would also explore lake fish in your area (there must be some) even if you can only use if for a short while. I don't know if anyone has brought up Hake yet? You might look into that too...might be a middle ground between pollack and haddock. 

post #69 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by The novice View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justa Chef View Post
 


if you weren't in the middle of nowhere, i'd be frowning on the Pollock choice. It's a bit of a darker fish a bit on the light grey side. But it is what it is.

:blush: I know......:(

 

When you are undertaking a simple dish with only a few components everything you use must be spot on and that includes visual appeal.

This is just IMO but if I took a bite and saw gray flesh this would put me off no matter how good the batter is.

How about @Someday 's suggestion of Haddock?

I see it in the frozen breaded fish freezer alongside the Cod and (shudder) Tilapia.

If it is good enuf for "The Gorton's Fisherman" ;-) I assume the cost is reasonable.

 

You only get one chance for a first impression...

 

mimi

post #70 of 89


again..if you can afford it go for it. The main problem is the fact that it cost an arm and a leg to get it to northern Canada. My suggestion would be to get some samples from your bender and play with them. See which would be the best fit for you. Pollock is a darker fish than cod and haddock and of course less expensive. We can go back and forth all day, it will wind up being a personal preference in the long run. You'll have to match up all the different options available to you while not breaking the bank....

post #71 of 89

@The novice Listen, from one Canadian who has lived and worked in northern ontario to another, you are going about this the wrong way and will lose you shirt if you focus on the pennies for dollars that cheap pollock might bring in but will kill your business.

 

Here is why, in TRUE northern ontario, the vast MAJORITY of the population like to fish therefore they KNOW their types of fish. You use pollock, they will NEVER return.

 

If you are "northern ontario" (like north of the major cities ontario) then you should be using the local fish as there are a TON to chose from. If you use pollock here, they will know and be less than impressed and NOT come back. Either way, get off the pollock train okay.

 

Being lazy and not doing your homework will kick ya in the nuts in the end. Going on an online forum is a start however, you are talking with a lot of people that have NO CLUE as to what ontario and its people truly are like and what they prefer palate-wise. This is in no way saying they (as professionals in their field) do not know what they are talking about, they just don't know the local scene and peoples of the area that you are wanting to serve and THAT my friend is up to you to get off the computer, go out to eat at a few of your successful competitors and find out what makes them successful, fish and all. 

 

So you want to be a successful restaurant manager?? Then get off your a$$ and start canvassing your local neighbourhood to see what is selling and what isn't. Also, if you are in a mall, you will want a good product that isn't too expensive but tastes and looks great as you will be limited to the numbers of people walking by your place. If you do it right and people love your product then you will get more walk in traffic coming to your restaurant specifically. I cannot stress how important it is to really look around you and do your homework when going into business for yourself. Success can be a two way street in this industry, yo can make enough money to pay all you bills and for some people that is enough, or you can make enough money to pay all your bills and make a profit......your choice. Please rethink the pollock decision :)

post #72 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fablesable View Post
 

@The novice Listen, from one Canadian who has lived and worked in northern ontario to another, you are going about this the wrong way and will lose you shirt if you focus on the pennies for dollars that cheap pollock might bring in but will kill your business.

 

Here is why, in TRUE northern ontario, the vast MAJORITY of the population like to fish therefore they KNOW their types of fish. You use pollock, they will NEVER return.

 

If you are "northern ontario" (like north of the major cities ontario) then you should be using the local fish as there are a TON to chose from. If you use pollock here, they will know and be less than impressed and NOT come back. Either way, get off the pollock train okay.

 

Being lazy and not doing your homework will kick ya in the nuts in the end. Going on an online forum is a start however, you are talking with a lot of people that have NO CLUE as to what ontario and its people truly are like and what they prefer palate-wise. This is in no way saying they (as professionals in their field) do not know what they are talking about, they just don't know the local scene and peoples of the area that you are wanting to serve and THAT my friend is up to you to get off the computer, go out to eat at a few of your successful competitors and find out what makes them successful, fish and all. 

 

So you want to be a successful restaurant manager?? Then get off your a$$ and start canvassing your local neighbourhood to see what is selling and what isn't. Also, if you are in a mall, you will want a good product that isn't too expensive but tastes and looks great as you will be limited to the numbers of people walking by your place. If you do it right and people love your product then you will get more walk in traffic coming to your restaurant specifically. I cannot stress how important it is to really look around you and do your homework when going into business for yourself. Success can be a two way street in this industry, yo can make enough money to pay all you bills and for some people that is enough, or you can make enough money to pay all your bills and make a profit......your choice. Please rethink the pollock decision :)


Well said! If the fish is going to be your bread and butter then it will do you justice to use a better cut. I know in most cases Cod is the preferred choice. You would not believe how many restaurants screw up fish and chips. The main thing is to have a crisp outside batter dipped large flake chunk with a tender flaky inside. I would also make sure the fish and fries are served right out of the fryer. A great tartar sauce is a must and s/b made in house.......

post #73 of 89
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fablesable View Post
 

@The novice Listen, from one Canadian who has lived and worked in northern ontario to another, you are going about this the wrong way and will lose you shirt if you focus on the pennies for dollars that cheap pollock might bring in but will kill your business.

 

Here is why, in TRUE northern ontario, the vast MAJORITY of the population like to fish therefore they KNOW their types of fish. You use pollock, they will NEVER return.

 

If you are "northern ontario" (like north of the major cities ontario) then you should be using the local fish as there are a TON to chose from. If you use pollock here, they will know and be less than impressed and NOT come back. Either way, get off the pollock train okay.

 

Being lazy and not doing your homework will kick ya in the nuts in the end. Going on an online forum is a start however, you are talking with a lot of people that have NO CLUE as to what ontario and its people truly are like and what they prefer palate-wise. This is in no way saying they (as professionals in their field) do not know what they are talking about, they just don't know the local scene and peoples of the area that you are wanting to serve and THAT my friend is up to you to get off the computer, go out to eat at a few of your successful competitors and find out what makes them successful, fish and all. 

 

So you want to be a successful restaurant manager?? Then get off your a$$ and start canvassing your local neighbourhood to see what is selling and what isn't. Also, if you are in a mall, you will want a good product that isn't too expensive but tastes and looks great as you will be limited to the numbers of people walking by your place. If you do it right and people love your product then you will get more walk in traffic coming to your restaurant specifically. I cannot stress how important it is to really look around you and do your homework when going into business for yourself. Success can be a two way street in this industry, yo can make enough money to pay all you bills and for some people that is enough, or you can make enough money to pay all your bills and make a profit......your choice. Please rethink the pollock decision :)

 

What if i lie and say it is another type of fish?
What is one step up from pollock?

post #74 of 89
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChefBillyB View Post
 


Well said! If the fish is going to be your bread and butter then it will do you justice to use a better cut. I know in most cases Cod is the preferred choice. You would not believe how many restaurants screw up fish and chips. The main thing is to have a crisp outside batter dipped large flake chunk with a tender flaky inside. I would also make sure the fish and fries are served right out of the fryer. A great tartar sauce is a must and s/b made in house.......


But fish isn't my bread and butter, no one else in the mall does it so I am just using it to pump up my menu

post #75 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by The novice View Post
 


But fish isn't my bread and butter, no one else in the mall does it so I am just using it to pump up my menu


If it isn't a big volume menu item then it's not going to be a fresh fish approach like a Fish and Chip house. I would still stick with Cod it would make everyone happy. I would also put a fish sandwich on the menu...What are some of the other items on your menu ?

post #76 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by The novice View Post

What if i lie and say it is another type of fish?

What is one step up from pollock?

You really don't want to do that. It is appalling that you even thought it out loud.
post #77 of 89

A) Never lie to you customers as it will backfire on you every time!

 

B) Did you read my post where it states that people in northern ontario KNOW their fish hence why the no lying part and get a better fish like cod, halibut, pike, etc.

 

C) If fish is not your bread and butter then STAY AWAY from it if you cannot be quality oriented with it. If you wish to pump up your menu there are a million and one different ways to do so and if you post your menu we can help you with that......probably even cheaper ways without having to handle fish and all the food safe issues that go with. 

 

D) You should always just stick with what you know and are comfortable with if you are not a chef and do not know anything about the product you wish to bring in. Stay with what you know and do it EXTREMELY WELL!! This way you don't have a need to "pump" up your menu as your menu and the quality of your food going out will speak for itself drawing more customers to your door. 

 

Just a few things to keep in mind. Having a food establishment is not just about feeding people food. It is about feeding people quality food that you are proud of, getting repeat customers, good reviews, and making a profit as in the end....this is a business. Smart business decisions equals smarter returns on your dollar. :D

post #78 of 89
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianShaw View Post


You really don't want to do that. It is appalling that you even thought it out loud.


I would argue most restaurants lie about what is in their food.  

post #79 of 89
Perhaps. But when caught in a lie there can be consequences. Ask the seafood restaurant in San Diego that lied to me about their "halibut" last summer to find out what kind of grief bad press will bring. I heartily praise good food/service... And even mediocre food/service... But lies and fraud can incite great wrath. I know I'm not alone.

And think about what it says about the liars. Who wants to live like that?
post #80 of 89

You understand what liability insurance is about right?? If you lie about what is in the food or what type of food you are serving and a person has it that has allergies or sensitivities that you didn't know about as they didn't tell you because they thought that what you say you are serving them is actually what you are serving them.....and they get sick or worse??? WHOA NELLY are you up shyte creek without a paddle!! If you have insurance and they find out you have lied about what you are serving.....guess whose bottom is not covered anymore.....yup, thats right: YOURS. 

 

A whole lotta crap for a simple solution of just serve what you know and stay away from what you don't.......dontchya think??

post #81 of 89

So I would argue that the majority of restaurants do not lie and the ones that do......they are either out of business now, getting sued and will be outta business or haven't got caught YET and will be outta business soon!

post #82 of 89
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianShaw View Post

Perhaps. But when caught in a lie there can be consequences. Ask the seafood restaurant in San Diego that lied to me about their "halibut" last summer to find out what kind of grief bad press will bring. I heartily praise good food/service... And even mediocre food/service... But lies and fraud can incite great wrath. I know I'm not alone.

And think about what it says about the liars. Who wants to live like that?


On a more philosophical note, i would argue we are at the height of cultural mediocrity and expediency.  

post #83 of 89
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fablesable View Post
 

So I would argue that the majority of restaurants do not lie and the ones that do......they are either out of business now, getting sued and will be outta business or haven't got caught YET and will be outta business soon!


didn't mean to derail my own thread (lol) or insult any of you, for which i apologize.

Last word: I would argue the majority of restaurants do lie.  and those that do USUALLY are more successful (read: McDonalds, BK, subway) than those that take pride in what they do and the food they serve.

 

It isn't "right" but it is expedient

post #84 of 89

Lol...yea it is an all is well that ends well sorta thing I guess ;)

 

Although sad to hear such pessimism from one so young, it is understandable. Anyhow, I hope you do figure out a good add to your menu and see your numbers flourish. I love to see people succeed at what they do!

post #85 of 89
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fablesable View Post
 

Lol...yea it is an all is well that ends well sorta thing I guess ;)

 

Although sad to hear such pessimism from one so young, it is understandable. Anyhow, I hope you do figure out a good add to your menu and see your numbers flourish. I love to see people succeed at what they do!


I know you have advised me against it, but i am quite interested in doing F&C.  what would be one step up from pollock?

post #86 of 89

Okay I would say a step up and in the right direction would be haddock and is what traditional British F&C are made from. Then you go to cod or halibut. 

 

Haddock tastes better and still will make it cost effective to do your F&C without the cost of bringing in cod or halibut. However, make sure you try out some haddock from the fish purveyor so that you know what it tastes like. It is similar in taste to the cod and to know if it is fresh or not, the haddock should be firm and hold together when handled. If it is translucent in colour as well that is a good sign, if opaque in colour that means the fish is not fresh and old. 

post #87 of 89
You need to get out from behind the computer and do some real homework. Go talk to a fish monger, search out places doing fish & chips, do your own research. Fry up different fish, test your batter recipe, see what works best.

IMO pollack has its place, in fish sticks.
Come back here when you have spent some time and money testing.
post #88 of 89

Ever had the feeling you're going in circles...round and round  in a thread?...lol.lol

post #89 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by chefbuba View Post

You need to get out from behind the computer and do some real homework. Go talk to a fish monger, search out places doing fish & chips, do your own research. Fry up different fish, test your batter recipe, see what works best.

IMO pollack has its place, in fish sticks.
Come back here when you have spent some time and money testing.

 

Bang on buba!

The product research is my favorite part of putting a menu together!

 

mimi

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